Salary Cap: Red Wings 2024-25 - next season cap discussion

[JediOrderPizza]

W/O somehow dumping Maatta and Fabbri, moving Husso as part of a goalie pckg upgrade and buying out Holl, I do not see how we will realistically improve in nets, the blueline and upfront when factoring in the significant raises coming to Ray and Mo...

We need a legit #1 goalie to hold down the fort until Cossa is ready

We need another legit 7 plus million dman as well as SE in the lineup

We need a reliable higher end #2 center plus Danielson in the lineup

SY has his work cut out

Yeah goalie thing is getting annoying 3 years now with guys melting after playing so many games.

I think we will have to hope that will be Edvinsson and can save money with his ELC until he gets a raise, in which the cap will also increase. He will need a new contract 26-27.

 

[Winged Wheel Willy]

Seider and Raymond absolutely warrant long term deals. The longer the better. With the cap rising, them getting better individually and the team improving as a whole, they won't ever be cheaper than now. The price will only go up (see Tkachuk, Nylander, Marner etc)

D:
- Ed MUST play, Johansson should play.
- Trade Maatta
- Ghost has to go. His ES defense I just cannot take anymore.
- Petry CANNOT play top4 min again. If Ed is not ready for that spot, you have to take a look elsewhere. Montour, Walker, Pesce, Roy would be significant improvements, but it all depends on the terms. My preference would be Michigan Boy Matt Roy.
- I dislike Holl just as much as anybody, but on the other hand I also have no interest in paying premium assets to get rid of that contract. And we are not in a position where we need every penny yet. If something comes along...great. Price to ship him out decreases with time.

Griddy - Mo
Chiarot - Roy (Ed)
Ed (Johansson) - Petry

F:
- Buy out Copp not this summer, but AFTER the upcoming season
- Resign Kane, Veleno and the Fisch to short term deals
- Let go of Perron. I like him but the legs just arent there anymore
- Trade Fabbri. He's a UFA next yr. This one hurts, but 60 games a year just doesnt cut it when you wanna challenge for the playoffs. I wish nothing but the best for Robby. Maybe dangle him to a contender with 50% retention to up the return.
- Sign Toffoli to a 2 or 3yr deal. The market has proven that he prob won't get a long term contract or else he'd have one by now.
- Sign Sprong, if he accepts a short term deal. If not, let him go too.
- LET THE KIDS FIGHT FOR THE OPEN SLOTS.

Toffoli - Cap - Raymond
Cat - JT - Kane
Moose - Copp - Sprong (KID)
KID - Veleno - Fisch



.

 

[Cake Eater]

You know, there is a middle ground between greatness and shitiness. Ray is a team worst -19, and Seider doesn't look like he's progressing at all. Granted that Mo started out with a high level of play, you'd still think he'd get better. Maybe it's just a matter of getting a better partner.

A bridge deal for either isn't the end of the world. There are other prospects that could eventually wind up commanding more money.

Let’s grow up and not use +/- as a barometer of a player, its 2024.

The 8-year dels did give a big advantage on years 2019-2024, when the cap did pretty much stand pat.

But Future estimations for cap rise are huge. The short bridge or medium long-term + later extensions will cost more on the 3rd contract, but the cap will be rising all the time like mad. You pay more, but there's always cap space.

These corona losses for NHL economy are finally behind and the future will be different. Bridge deals will become the steals again and 8-years after that will be reansonable contracts. Don't have to worry for overpaying.

That cap growth change is some mathematics which many won't understand.

You’re talking like we will see some NFL style cap growth. It’s just not gonna happen. We are talking small percentages.

 

[Gniwder]

Let’s grow up and not use +/- as a barometer of a player, its 2024.

How about I just say that Ray's pretty much useless when DBoss isn't playing? Oddly, it also shows up on +/- if you look at Ray's game logs. Then again, the whole team is useless without Larkin.

I like Ray, but he hasn't shown that he's a franchise player by any means regardless of which stat you look at or by the eye test.

 

[Winged Wheel Willy]

How about I just say that Ray's pretty much useless when DBoss isn't playing? Oddly, it also shows up on +/- if you look at Ray's game logs. Then again, the whole team is useless without Larkin.

I like Ray, but he hasn't shown that he's a franchise player by any means regardless of which stat you look at or by the eye test.

He is 21 and this is his 3rd yr

Larkin's first 3 yrs: 242gp, 140pts
Raymond's first 2 4/5 yrs: 224 gp, 159pts and counting

Larkin had two very meh seasons 2019-2021 (71gp, 53pts and 44gp 23pts) playing with little sisters and the poor. He could't do it alone. linemates matter and it is no coincidence that Larkin became a ppg player when Raymond joined the team.

 

[Henkka]

Larkin had two very meh seasons 2019-2021 (71gp, 53pts and 44gp 23pts) playing with little sisters and the poor. He could't do it alone. linemates matter and it is no coincidence that Larkin became a ppg player when Raymond joined the team.

The difference did come from the PP role.

Larkin during his ELC, scored 1.85 points/60 at 5-on-5.

Raymond has so far scored 1.76 points/60 at 5-on-5, on higher-scoring era.

Larkin had better players in front of him (Pavel, Z, Gus, Tatar, Vanek etc) to eat the 1st PP role and point-production from him.

Raymond entered on crap TANK team where he has had significant PP role from the start, because there was nobody better in front of him.

Still interesting comparison. Maybe Raymond will get 5-year deal as second contract like Larkin.

Larkin share of cap was 7.67% (deal was worth 6.1M). Versus 87.5M cap that would be 6.7M caphit.

 

[Cake Eater]

How about I just say that Ray's pretty much useless when DBoss isn't playing? Oddly, it also shows up on +/- if you look at Ray's game logs. Then again, the whole team is useless without Larkin.

I like Ray, but he hasn't shown that he's a franchise player by any means regardless of which stat you look at or by the eye test.

Raymond is good defensively. Pointing out his +/- from a basic point of view seems to challenge otherwise. Nobody thinks Raymond is a franchise player. That’s silly.

 

[RED WINGS STOMP]

I imagine most will trash this idea, originally I would of too, but would throwing a bag at Sam Reinhart be that bad of an idea? Yes, he is having an outlier season and will cost too much most likely. Getting him out of Florida doesn't seem likely either.

But, he had two 30 goal seasons before his huge jump this year with his insane shooting %. Plus weakening a division opponent would be nice. Plays a great 2 C, kills penalties, a lot to like if the contract isn't brutal.

 

[19 for president]

How about I just say that Ray's pretty much useless when DBoss isn't playing? Oddly, it also shows up on +/- if you look at Ray's game logs. Then again, the whole team is useless without Larkin.

I like Ray, but he hasn't shown that he's a franchise player by any means regardless of which stat you look at or by the eye test.

I disagree that he is useless but this teams full defensive structure falls apart without Larkin. Ray is ok and getting better defensively but isn't going to stop top lines. Larkin is our only above average top 6 guy defensively. Compher hasn't been as good defensively as I thought he'd be. Copp is solid but outside of the big body line is completely useless offensively.

Ray is still a winger and most of them don't have a lot of individual impact on the game. I think he can get to that point, but he is not there yet.

 

[Henkka]

I imagine most will trash this idea, originally I would of too, but would throwing a bag at Sam Reinhart be that bad of an idea?

Plays a great 2 C, kills penalties, a lot to like if the contract isn't brutal.

Guy is Barkov's winger.

Never really a 2C, that's Sam Bennett at Florida. And Lundell is 3rd line Center.

 

[RED WINGS STOMP]

Bah, what do I know? My bad.

 

[PelagicJoe]

1. New deals for Raymond and Seider.
2. Sign Pesce
3. Try to trade Holl
4. Let Reimer, Perron, and Ghost walk
5. Re-sign Kane and Sprong
6. Call up Ed

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

1. New deals for Raymond and Seider.
2. Sign Pesce
3. Try to trade Holl
4. Let Reimer, Perron, and Ghost walk
5. Re-sign Kane and Sprong
6. Call up Ed

Think we need to
- sign Ray 5 years @ 6m
- sign Mo 8 years @8.25m
- buyout Holl
- trade Matta and Fabbri for late rd picks
- trade Husso plus for a goalie upgrade(markstrom, gibson, etc)
- resign Kane 2 years @ 5m
- resign Sprong
- sign a good UFA dman at over 6m
- SE and ND(as a winger to start) are put on the opening night roster
- sign another solid UFA forward

 

[Henkka]

Think we need to
- sign Ray 5 years @ 6m
- sign Mo 8 years @8.25m
- buyout Holl
- trade Matta and Fabbri for late rd picks
- trade Husso plus for a goalie upgrade(markstrom, gibson, etc)
- resign Kane 2 years @ 5m
- resign Sprong
- sign a good UFA dman at over 6m
- SE and ND(as a winger to start) are put on the opening night roster
- sign another solid UFA forward

Good list.

Think only 6M valued UFA D-man on the market is Brett Pesce. Others are worse or you overpay.

Maybe there is trade for a better D ?

And would do excatly same, except not buying out anybody.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Good list.

Think only 6M valued UFA D-man on the market is Brett Pesce. Others are worse or you overpay.

Maybe there is trade for a better D ?

And would do excatly same, except not buying out anybody.

Montour?

We need to buyout(or trade Holl) to both free up cap space while improve defense...

 

[norrisnick]

Montour is the wrong flavor of RD, IMO. Pesce on the higher end or Matt Roy on the lower acceptable end. Below Roy you may as well keep rolling out Holl/Petry. It's just different window dressing on the same level of player.

 

[letsgowings9999]

Yzermans got some work to do this summer ... if it were up to me ...

Deal holl at 2.5 and get rid of him

Deal copp at 3.6 and get rid of him, was a bad signing from day 1. Replace him with kasper and gain cap space

Deal maata and fabbri, buyout Petry if we must

Sign seider 8.35 x8 ... raymond 7.75 x8
Duhaime 1.5 x4 .... 2.5 x3 for sprong

??? Larkin raymond
Debrincat compher kane
Rasmussen kasper berggren
Duhaime veleno sprong
fischer

Not sure on 1st line winger ,maybe make a deal for crouse and get some size on the top 6 or someone like that. Move up Rasmussen and replace him with mazur or soderblom .. I know this team needs to add some size

Trade for gudas

Johansson seider
Walman gudas
Edvinsson chiarot
Free agent 7th dman

D pairings wont happen but it would allow each pairking to have a dman who can play on the offensive

We'll Probably end up back with husso and lyon

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Montour is the wrong flavor of RD, IMO. Pesce on the higher end or Matt Roy on the lower acceptable end. Below Roy you may as well keep rolling out Holl/Petry. It's just different window dressing on the same level of player.

Just curious..why is he the wrong flavour?

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Yzermans got some work to do this summer ... if it were up to me ...

Deal holl at 2.5 and get rid of him

Deal copp at 3.6 and get rid of him, was a bad signing from day 1. Replace him with kasper and gain cap space

Deal maata and fabbri, buyout Petry if we must

Sign seider 8.35 x8 ... raymond 7.75 x8
Duhaime 1.5 x4 .... 2.5 x3 for sprong

??? Larkin raymond
Debrincat compher kane
Rasmussen kasper berggren
Duhaime veleno sprong
fischer

Not sure on 1st line winger ,maybe make a deal for crouse and get some size on the top 6 or someone like that. Move up Rasmussen and replace him with mazur or soderblom .. I know this team needs to add some size

Trade for gudas

Johansson seider
Walman gudas
Edvinsson chiarot
Free agent 7th dman

D pairings wont happen but it would allow each pairking to have a dman who can play on the offensive

We'll Probably end up back with husso and lyon

Unfortunately that team is worse than our current lineup

 

[letsgowings9999]

Unfortunately that team is worse than our current lineup

If you say so

 

[norrisnick]

Just curious..why is he the wrong flavour?

More offensive application vs more defensive application. We don't need another Ghost. We need a better Maatta but on the right side.

And he's going to make a ton of money based off of last year's 70+ points.

 

[lilidk]

Danielson - Larkin - Raymond
Mazur - Kasper - Kane
Fabbri -Veleno - Rasmussen
Fischer -Copp- Sprong
Walman -Seider
Chiarot -Maata
Edvinsson - Petri
Something like that for next season. We will have plenty money in the end to buy for playoff run .

 

[KasperTheGrittyGhost]

Really don’t see us promoting 5-6 guys into the lineup next season. Yzerman has gone out of his way to insulate kids. Think Danielson, Mazur, will be on the outside looking in.

 

[lilidk]

Really don’t see us promoting 5-6 guys into the lineup next season. Yzerman has gone out of his way to insulate kids. Think Danielson, Mazur, will be on the outside looking in.

I believe Yzerman is very frustrated to see what is going on, who knows what is he going to do.

 

[Tetsuo]

My early thoughts are:

• Raymond and Seider need long term deals and if I'm Steve I try to get as long of term as they'll sign. The cap is going to jump significantly in the coming years and getting them signed for under 9 per for 8 years will feel like steals. Bridge deals will just bridge them into even more massive money.
• There needs to be a defensive shakeup. Ed needs to be up full time, and maybe even AlJo too. One of Holl or Petry have to go, and Gostisbehere should not be retained. I think I'd promote from within and that will also save money.
• The much trickier question is what to do with the forward core. Which guys do you retain? DP, Sprong and Kane obviously have been a big reason for our depth scoring, but each one will probably be trying to get a pay increase. The Copp deal is turning out to be a bit of a blunder, while Fabbri is just hurt too dang much. Plus there's the question of how many young guys you bring up. I sure would like to see Kasper get some looks, and Berg is definitely an NHLer.
• And of course, we need to keep looking for netminders. Till one of the prospects kicks down the doors we probably need to keep rotating guys in. Hopefully a revamped defense will mean we don't sink the new guy after 3/4 of a season lol.
• Finally, I'd go big game hunting for forward talent. We have an army of prospects, a plethora of picks and some special talent in Mo and Ray that might be able to break open a playoff window if we get a game changer. Yes Kane has been awesome but until he signs for some term I don't think you can afford to let that factor in. Open the checkbook, trade some picks and prospects (we literally can't graduate them all) and see what you can get.

I'm not willing to speculate too much more yet given that it's uncertain if we make the playoffs (and how that may or may not change things). I will point out that buying out Holl is very cheap should we need to clear room.