Richiebottles
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- Jul 26, 2010
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RD Nick Ebert - Windsor Spitfires, OHL (2012, 211th overall, Los Angeles)
- Thread starter LeafsFan18
- Start date
Always find it interesting to see when/where some guys hit their peak. Not saying Ebert has peaked, but...
He was considered one of the best 94s available (top 3-5) before the OHL draft. Also looked like a lock for the first round at the NHL draft and maybe even top 5 pick, now his stock is plummeting.
Rumblings of a bad work ethic, trade rumors a few months back, Windsor in a rebuild, just sounds like a nightmare season. I hope now that the deadline is over, that he can put things together and show some value.
It's a long way away and alot can happen, but here's an interesting thought. He could be a very good overager for Rychel and his 2014 Memorial Cup bid.
He was considered one of the best 94s available (top 3-5) before the OHL draft. Also looked like a lock for the first round at the NHL draft and maybe even top 5 pick, now his stock is plummeting.
Rumblings of a bad work ethic, trade rumors a few months back, Windsor in a rebuild, just sounds like a nightmare season. I hope now that the deadline is over, that he can put things together and show some value.
It's a long way away and alot can happen, but here's an interesting thought. He could be a very good overager for Rychel and his 2014 Memorial Cup bid.
Remarkable the number of people on this thread who haven't seen him play but who still have an opinion.
A) Ebert is not dumb as wood and his hockey sense has never been questioned.
B) He was never an "offensive" defenseman even though he is capable of contributing on offense.
C) This draft is very desperate for offense so any "failing" in that regard - real or perceived - is going to be compounded to the downside.
D) Given a choice of Trouba or Ebert, I'd take Ebert and not look back - regardless of the game of "Telephone" that the nattering nabobs of negativism want to play.
A) Ebert is not dumb as wood and his hockey sense has never been questioned.
B) He was never an "offensive" defenseman even though he is capable of contributing on offense.
C) This draft is very desperate for offense so any "failing" in that regard - real or perceived - is going to be compounded to the downside.
D) Given a choice of Trouba or Ebert, I'd take Ebert and not look back - regardless of the game of "Telephone" that the nattering nabobs of negativism want to play.
Bull. Prior to the season Ebert was in everyone's Top 10 and in some cases, Top 5.
Why would someone take an undersized Dman with little offensive skill with a high pick? Those guys do not make it in the league. Trouba is an easy pick over Ebert, even though I'm not entirely sold on Trouba.
Ward Cornell
Registered User
- Dec 22, 2007
- 6,396
- 2,620
^ This is one of my pet peeves about this board.
It seems like a bunch of "message board scouting" is happening way too much!
I really don't offer an opinion on any player unless i see them in person about 3 or 4 times and even at that it's not
enough of a sampling especially if the opposition is the same team.
Ward Cornell
Registered User
- Dec 22, 2007
- 6,396
- 2,620
Bjorn Le
Hobocop
His hockey sense has be questioned this season. As well as his work ethic.
Most of his largest supporters last season trumped him up as a high end offensive defensemen, can't fault people for remembering that.
Even if offense wasn't at a premium, Ebert would fall, he hasn't been good defensively either this year and I don't even think he's playing top minutes for Windsor anymore. He's almost invisable when he's not messing up for Windsor.
Thats your opinion, but Ebert hasn't shown anything of worth since he was 16. He needs to do that before he's back above Trouba in any teams hands.
By someone who heard someone talking about what they heard someone else say.
Ebert has long had supporters who actually KNEW his game. He's has been highly touted for several seasons for a good reason and it's because he's lived up top his potential. He actually SURPRISED people with his game last year. People who didn't realize how good of a player he is.
I will fault the Johnny Come-Lately's who are just as eager to hop off the bus at the nearest corner after just getting on to it at the last one.
He is still getting top minutes. They have no one else. Again, 22 points and -3 when there is NOT ONE defensemen on that team with a +/- above 0 and no one who was with him at the start of the season on the blueline within 10 points of him.
And that's YOUR opinion. Sadly, it's become dogma.
Thanks. My eyes roll...my head shakes. It's become a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point.
Listed in Buttons list at 5'11 (http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649)
5'11 1/4 in latest CSS (http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=76670)
List at 5'11 in latest ISS (http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=1082675)
So I'm not sure why you think he is a legit 6'1 when every source I see lists him well shorter.
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=45972
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/nick_ebert
http://www.windsorspitfires2.com/roster.php
And if you had actually seen him play then you'd know that he was in no way 5'11".
Ward Cornell
Registered User
- Dec 22, 2007
- 6,396
- 2,620
Those IMHO are out of date info from the 2011 OHL draft.
His present size ranges as listed on the Windsor site (6'-1" 205lbs and hockeyDB is 6'-1" 205).
Seeing him in person is the true measurement and he's over 6'-0"
With your stats or mine he's not undersized at age 17 since he can still grow at least 1" or 2" and add on 20lbs.
I saw him right before the New Year in their loss to Saginaw. Spits are a team uninspired.
Pederson has worked out very well for you, it appears. What's your opinion of Max Iafrate so far? From some of the press, I expected him to be ranked higher.
Yes, I've seen him play, and I can guarantee he is noticeably smaller than Ceci.
Look, people can say anything, I know which sources I have more trust in. I know for a fact that OHL listings are quick often in error on the high side, I have seen it a number of times where guys are smaller after a combine measurement in spite of the fact they are in their growth years.
Guess you are right,comparing two players playing next to each other is not a good way to gauge who is bigger.
Sweech
Oh When the Spurs
It's not dogma so much as it's consensus amongst every single scout.
I literally dare you to find one that disagrees. It's literally unheard of.
Trouba is an outstanding player who has shown skill at every facet of his game (both offense and defense). Plus he uses his weight to throw some crunching hits. The guy plays lights out. But let me guess you went around stating others haven't watched Ebert play, but you've also watched a ton of Trouba?
Let me guess. You watched two WJC games and thought, "This guy isn't worth the hype". Get sensible man.
Ebert is an enigma, almost every facet of his game is wrapped in a question mark.
Please don't put words into my mouth. I've seen Trouba play going back to his Compuware days.
Had you actually taken the time to comprehend my use of ther word "dogma" you wouldn't have gone off on this rant.
Had you actually read any of my posts about Ebert then you'd realize that I know what the scouts have been reporting and you would further understand my use of the word "dogma".
The "scouts" went into this season believing that Ebert was going to put up a point a game while absolutely terrorizing everyone who came into his path. HOW these "scouts" got this into their head about this player defies understanding.
The book on him prior to the end of last season in no way would have justified the book on him coming into this season. He was a young kid on a good team that scored a lot of goals last season. Last year he was paired with Ryan Ellis.
So, now he's a year older, on a younger team for which, and from what I've seen, he's the only one with a clue about how to play in his own zone. Bowen has the potential to be a monster if he gets his skating up to the level but he's one dimensional. The rest of the blueliners on that team are, at best, average. If Kitchener had any less of a season, we'd be having the same conversation about Ryan Murphy, and in some quarters they are, who is easily 2 inches shorter and 30-lbs lightern then Ebert. Good thing Murphy's draft year was last year.
Trouba, for what you want to say about my impression of him, and, as I stated on this board at the time of the tournament, I was actually impressed with his play at WJC - for a 17 year old it was just about as good as it gets. He struggled at times. Other times he stepped right up. Conversely, I can count the number of games that I've seen him dominate in USHL play on one hand. I certainly saw Ebert dominate far more at the USHL level with Waterloo than I've seen Trouba do with TUSA.
So, I stand by my statement; Ebert is shouldering the blame for an underperforming team. It's less about him and more about the Spits in general, imho.
Great players make bad teams look good. Good players look bad on bad teams. Ebert is showing nothing more than he is good.
Kinston is a terrible team, yet it did not stop Spooner from looking great.
Erie is a terrible team, yet McKegg looked great.
And Windsor? I hear rave reviews of Khokhlachev, Rychel, Vail and Devlin, those four are certainly not under performing. They are playing .500 hockey, currently sit in the playoffs.
The fact is this is not a terrible team, and have a number of players doing quite well. Unfortunately, Ebert is not one of them.
Look, there is still a lot of time left in the regular season and the playoffs potentially. He has a lot of time to show what he can do. Everyone is waiting, its all on him at the moment. I hope he does well, not wishing anyone any ill will, but he and his fans have to understand, he has not played well this year, and has not played up to anything close to what his potential is said to be. Take a look a the other D in this draft, Reilly, Ceci, Koekkoek, Dumba, Trouba, Reinhart. They have stepped stepped up big time and dramatically improved their play over last season. Ebert has not. He's played a bit better lately (stats wise, I have not seen him since he was in Ottawa) but he has to keep it up and improve on it if possible.
Bjorn Le
Hobocop
No, by people who have watched him. If Ebert has high end hockey sense, he sure isn't using it this season. He makes boneheaded mistakes every night that make you question is hockey sense.
Many of Eberts supporters had seen him for a long time said this, most notably AmericanDream (Who no one is going to claim that he didn't see him before he was 16), and I know he did because I'm pretty sure I got banned from a thread arguing against it.
You don't notice him playing top minutes anymore. Whenever you notice him, it's him messing up offensively and defensively. I don't care that he's "only -3" on a team like Windsor, he has played bad this year, simple as that, there is no maybes, its bad, and theres nothing good about it.
There is a reason he has fell massively, and isn't in most peoples top 60. Its not something that people are spreading without cause. No NHL team is going to take Ebert over Trouba.
I don't know why you're fawning over him so much, he has been horrible this year and even the biggest Windsor homers admit it.
AmericanDream
Thank you Elon!
I notice a certain dman not mentioned in your list of people who have stepped up; Ryan Murray! How come a man still ranked in the top 5, who hasnt really stepped up this year, is still being ranked that high?
you left him off your list for a reason so I am just asking what your opinion is of Murray so far this year?
I have been a huge Ebert follower since I saw his performance at the Selects before he went to the USHL. The kid is much more talented overall then anyone on here is giving him credit for. He does not have poor hockey IQ as he has showed that the past 3 years playing well above his age.
His main issues seem to be : Many on here including myself expected too much for him. The bar was raised too high and he cant simply live up to it.
Also, he didnt come into camp in the best shape which seems to be reported by numerous sources, and it might have went to his head that his talent was enough to get by.
Finally his teammates are very young and very shaky. There is no rock on that blueline to help him out. I get to see plenty of Windsor and man does Grant Webermin (who I thought would have a big year) look very modest. Adrian Robertson has looked solid this year, but at 3 years older then Ebert that is to be expected.
I am not making excuses for Ebert, the kid just seems to to be taking the brunt of a below 500 team imo. I look at Ryan Murphy right now, and who would draft him this year at the same spot last year on a better Kitchener team???? is that kid for real?
And Ryan Murray hasnt destroyed the world either, he has looked good, has been hurt, but I do see some doubters with his overall ability as well, especially with that horrible plus/minus. and trust me, when Josh Birkholz is your leading scorer, you are on a pretty bad team, but Murray looks mortal now as well.
this is the crazy world of sports.
a kid like Ebert who was cant miss since suiting up for Waterloo nearly 3 years ago has dropped down the rankings like a rock.
I usually agree with Edges, but when it comes to not calling Nick Ebert an offensive defensemen, I disagree. That kid could move and shoot the puck with the best of them. He was a more physical Cam Fowler, and played like that the past two years. You dont put up the numbers he has by mere luck. The kid was gifted no doubt.
He came into this year with a lot to prove, and sadly he hasnt. it is a simple as that. maybe the pressure got to him, or maybe FOR ONCE Glennie was right and Ryan Ellis masked all his flaws....though Ellis didnt play with him in the USHL where he looked like a stud prior.
I dont really know, but this is one of the more mighty falls that I have seen from such a highly skilled player like Ebert in a few years.
but for the record, ISS now has him in the top 50, so he is moving up baby!!! compared to 70 where CSS has him. as I said this kid will go top 2 rounds, if not, I am outta here!
Last edited by a moderator:
AmericanDream
Thank you Elon!
maybe, but Ebert is worse imo....Ambroz always had the skating concerns that we felt could hurt him, but Ebert really didnt have many flaws prior to this year to expect this drop.
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