Speculation: Ray Shero 'inside track' to succeed GM Bryan Murray

[Tuna99]

This is simple a case of Garricoche speculating to make it look like Murray is not a lame duck, he'll be with the team next year but he won't be the GM, all of this is pure window dressing to make Murray look like the man in charge because the Shero speculation makes him look like he's done and just hanging on.

What we need to talk about is Rciahrdsson going to Buffalo, that would suck, he needs to coach this team but if he already said no when Mac was fired I hope it asst because he knew the Daners job was waiting for him - and can you blame him, two great youth center siren Stud D prospects already in the system but the real reason is he'll have an owner that spends to the cap, plain and simple. (also will pay him a ton of money and commit for 5 years probs when Eugene will moly commit 3)

Ottawa's the nicest team in the league, groom stud coaches for other teams

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Fair enough

Still, the team feeling like it was necessary to go out and claim Murray was mis-quoted when you seem to claim he wasn't is telling

I think it's pretty clear things are not going well internally

In regards to the bolded, with all due respect it requires a huge leap in logic to arrive at this conclusion.

What we know with relative assurance.

First, the only thing that has changed in the Sens front office is Bryan Murray's health situation.

Second, based on Bryan's announcement it appears Melnyk is leaving Bryan in the job for as long as Bryan feels his health will allow him to perform his duties.

Third, it is also clear that Melnyk has asked Bryan to provide an up-to-date succession plan and his personal recommendation.

I don't believe any of these three points supports a conclusion things aren't going well in the front office.

What we don't know probably has a greater impact on what is occurring than what has been made public.

One thing is clear, Melnyk has a great deal of respect for Bryan and his opinions and is going to let Bryan decide how this is going to play out.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Spezza was very respectable when he left and didn't throw anyone under the bus. This was about helping the team out. If you actually listened to what Spezza said it is clear he wanted to go to a team who had a desire to win, same with Alfie. He always stopped short of saying that the team refusing to spend was the cause but look at how the team is running. Spezza's last season was full of management NOT standing behind him in the press and using him as a scapegoat to why things weren't right.

Management made the decision not to re-sign him first.

There were lots of reasons that influenced him wanting out and the reasons management gave only make them out to be the "we tried guys".

Why would Spezza want to stick around for another 5 years waiting for a rebuild to either work or not pan out. If he wanted to stay I would question his desire to win and save him a spot him at the Phillips and Neil country club table.

I don't doubt the way they treated Alfie had him thinking of his future sooner than becoming a UFA.

It's clear you only believe what the Sens beat writers have to say and soak up all the rays of Murray's aurora.

Both sides were very respectful IMO.

Fact, Spezza has clearly stated he had been thinking about asking for a trade for quite some time, it wasn't just over the past summer nor because of his last season.

Since management cannot discuss an extension until the final year of the contract, there is little doubt based on Spezza's words he initiated the end of the relationship.

People can make up all the rationale they want as to why Spezza decided to leave, but this winning stuff needs to get put to rest.

Spezza just signed a 4 year deal with a team that is 6 points ahead of Ottawa and has played one more game. Neither team is likely to make the playoffs this year.

In subsequent years the Senators have a greater potential for growth than Dallas IMO and are likely to be better than Dallas in the years to come.

 

[Stylizer1]

Both sides were very respectful IMO.

Fact, Spezza has clearly stated he had been thinking about asking for a trade for quite some time, it wasn't just over the past summer nor because of his last season.

Since management cannot discuss an extension until the final year of the contract, there is little doubt based on Spezza's words he initiated the end of the relationship.

People can make up all the rationale they want as to why Spezza decided to leave, but this winning stuff needs to get put to rest.

Spezza just signed a 4 year deal with a team that is 6 points ahead of Ottawa and has played one more game. Neither team is likely to make the playoffs this year.

In subsequent years the Senators have a greater potential for growth than Dallas IMO and are likely to be better than Dallas in the years to come.

Spezza chose a team that was pretty good last season. This seasons results have nothing to do with his decision.

Spezza made a business decision first and foremost. it was either he goes to a contender and makes less money with less term or go to a team who at the time made the playoffs, had cap room, and has a chance to win.

Dallas has a lot of cap room considering they are carrying extra bodies on the pay role. Plus just over 2 million from buyouts which ends this season. Management willing to make deals to improve the team shows the direction most players are looking for.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Both sides were very respectful IMO.

Fact, Spezza has clearly stated he had been thinking about asking for a trade for quite some time, it wasn't just over the past summer nor because of his last season.

Since management cannot discuss an extension until the final year of the contract, there is little doubt based on Spezza's words he initiated the end of the relationship.

People can make up all the rationale they want as to why Spezza decided to leave, but this winning stuff needs to get put to rest.

Spezza just signed a 4 year deal with a team that is 6 points ahead of Ottawa and has played one more game. Neither team is likely to make the playoffs this year.

In subsequent years the Senators have a greater potential for growth than Dallas IMO and are likely to be better than Dallas in the years to come.

Personally, I don't see the Sens being anywhere close to being better than Dallas soon, anytime soon.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

This is simple a case of Garricoche speculating to make it look like Murray is not a lame duck, he'll be with the team next year but he won't be the GM, all of this is pure window dressing to make Murray look like the man in charge because the Shero speculation makes him look like he's done and just hanging on.

What we need to talk about is Rciahrdsson going to Buffalo, that would suck, he needs to coach this team but if he already said no when Mac was fired I hope it asst because he knew the Daners job was waiting for him - and can you blame him, two great youth center siren Stud D prospects already in the system but the real reason is he'll have an owner that spends to the cap, plain and simple. (also will pay him a ton of money and commit for 5 years probs when Eugene will moly commit 3)

Ottawa's the nicest team in the league, groom stud coaches for other teams

I cant disagree more. He doesnt need to coach this team and is inexperienced. When given a top notch elite ahl team he managed to makes them great offensively which was expected but he still failed to accomplish anything in the first round and the defense was poor. He was given a pretty good defense this year but it has under performed well the offense has been ok. Hes not going to be working with the best players in the league when he gets to ottawa. Hes going to be working with a bad roster that badly need the defense to take the next steps and im not sure an offensive coach like richardson is the man for that.

Richardson has done little. I'm sure there might be better coaching prospects that might be able to sort out a competent defensive structure and not seemingly only play boom or bust.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Since the rebuild was announced the only two player the Sens lost were Alfie (1 year) and Spezza.

Did that set the team back, Alfie definitely, Spezza to a lesser extent IMO.

At the same time draftees were being introduced to the NHL, Karlsson, Greening, Smith, Condra, Lehner, Cowen, Zibanejad, Weircoich, Ceci, Gryba, Stone, Hoffman, Pageau, Lazar, and Borowiecki.

Of the above 15 draftees some won't pan out or stay with the Sens, Greening is the first in this category. At the same time 14 of these players are currently on the Sens roster.

14 of the 23 players currently on the Sens roster come via the draft.

This process started with EK 5 years ago and has accelerated to the point that 60% of the team is homegrown talent.

Yet you think the team needs to be honest and tell you they are starting a full rebuild??

Please tell me what % of the roster needs to be composed of drafted players to be considered a full rebuild?

You might have missed it, which I doubt, but this team has under gone a full rebuild and is now in the development and evaluation stage.

There will be puts and takes, more veterans and some of the current crop of young players will go, potentially replaced by players like Puempel, Prince, Harper, etc.

It is how a rebuild takes place.

The "rebuild on the fly" started when we traded Mike Fisher. It was going pretty decently until we lost Alfredsson in the worst way possible, and took another downturn losing Spezza.

The rebuild was pushed differently when Alfredsson left.

I'll ignore the rest of the strawmen in the other two thirds of your post.

 

[The Lewler]

This was Spezza's last big money deal... I imagine in Texas he pays far less income tax.

Not the only reason, but I'm sure setting the bank up for retirement was a consideration.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

The "rebuild on the fly" started when we traded Mike Fisher. It was going pretty decently until we lost Alfredsson in the worst way possible, and took another downturn losing Spezza.

The rebuild was pushed differently when Alfredsson left.

I'll ignore the rest of the strawmen in the other two thirds of your post.

Disagree with this, Alfie wasn't even a guarantee to play so I seriously doubt the Sens were planning their rebuild around a 39-40 year old player.

While I definitely believe the loss of Alfie had an effect on the leadership, his departure only resulted in one young player getting an opportunity a year earlier than expected.

Surely you don't believe the loss of one player for one season pushed the rebuild in any direction.

PS define "on the fly" anyway you want, a rebuild typically starts as the trade deadline approaches when GMs realize the current roster just isn't going to get it done.

Ottawa was no different in this regard.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

Personally, I don't see the Sens being anywhere close to being better than Dallas soon, anytime soon.

Agreed.

I don't believe there is anyone on the Sens roster with the skills of Benn and Seguin. Hemsky and Spezza were top line players here in Ottawa, in Dallas, they are complimentary.

Their D is the only area that needs big improvement. Like ours.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

I cant disagree more. He doesnt need to coach this team and is inexperienced. When given a top notch elite ahl team he managed to makes them great offensively which was expected but he still failed to accomplish anything in the first round and the defense was poor. He was given a pretty good defense this year but it has under performed well the offense has been ok. Hes not going to be working with the best players in the league when he gets to ottawa. Hes going to be working with a bad roster that badly need the defense to take the next steps and im not sure an offensive coach like richardson is the man for that.

Richardson has done little. I'm sure there might be better coaching prospects that might be able to sort out a competent defensive structure and not seemingly only play boom or bust.

To be fair goaltending has been a significant problem for the B-Sens this season.

Then consider the team lost JGP, Stone, Hoffman and Boro.

The measure of a good AHL coach isn't measured soley by wins but also in the number of players that graduate to the NHL.

In that regard Luke is doing a solid job.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

To be fair goaltending has been a significant problem for the B-Sens this season.

Then consider the team lost JGP, Stone, Hoffman and Boro.

The measure of a good AHL coach isn't measured soley by wins but also in the number of players that graduate to the NHL.

In that regard Luke is doing a solid job.

The team wasnt good defensively last year. Is it any surprise they arent good this year? Lawson was a capable AHL goalie and hes struggled behind the bingo defense. Richardson to me at least... is a offensively minded boom or bust guy.

Richardson is doing an okay job to good but i wouldnt expect him to do well in ottawa atm. I did not mean to make Richardson look bad. I meant to point out he may not be a good choice for the senators. His strengths dont look like they will translate to this team and his weaknesses will look more vulnerable.

 

[Micklebot]

To be fair goaltending has been a significant problem for the B-Sens this season.

Then consider the team lost JGP, Stone, Hoffman and Boro.

The measure of a good AHL coach isn't measured soley by wins but also in the number of players that graduate to the NHL.

In that regard Luke is doing a solid job.

You forgot DaCosta.

He pretty much lost the better part of his top two lines and his top defence man.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

The only thing I hold against Richardson is not performing in the playoffs

However I don't watch AHL hockey so there could be valid reasons as to why they failed to live up to expectations

 

[Micklebot]

The only thing I hold against Richardson is not performing in the playoffs

However I don't watch AHL hockey so there could be valid reasons as to why they failed to live up to expectations

Two playoff series seems like a small sample to me, and to top it off, in the first one, he'd lost many of his better players to the big club in Benoit, Gryba, Silfverberg, Lehner, Pageau, and Hoffman.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Richardson bsen team was 8th worst in goals against last year with a VERY VERY good roster. This year they are 3rd worst with a meh roster. Defense seems to be something hes struggled with which is kinda funny since he was a defensive dman. Based on my experience watching some games bingo seems to be a team that going to either lose or beat you by 3 goals. Only one team that was as bad defensively as bingo last year made the playoffs and they also lost in the first round. It doesnt seems like a sustainable way of playing. The teams that did the best in the AHL were the best defensive teams for the most part.

 

[Stylizer1]

Disagree with this, Alfie wasn't even a guarantee to play so I seriously doubt the Sens were planning their rebuild around a 39-40 year old player.

While I definitely believe the loss of Alfie had an effect on the leadership, his departure only resulted in one young player getting an opportunity a year earlier than expected.

Surely you don't believe the loss of one player for one season pushed the rebuild in any direction.

PS define "on the fly" anyway you want, a rebuild typically starts as the trade deadline approaches when GMs realize the current roster just isn't going to get it done.

Ottawa was no different in this regard.

Don't forget knee jerk Murray with the Ryan trade. We lost Silfverberg, Noensen, and a First. I would say that pushed the rebuild in a new direction.

So Murray realized twice that his current roster was not going to get it done then? Not to mention his choices of coaches were never the problem either.

He brought Maclean in to coach a team with solid vets in Gonchar, Alfie, Spezza, Neil, Phillips(at the time), Kuba, and Michalek. Mac goes on the make the playoffs and is runner up for the Adams. Next season Mac wins the Adams and get the team to the second round with an injury plagued season. In a two year period he loses Gonchar, Alfie, Spezza, Kuba, and gets a broken Michalek a really old Phillips, and a less effective Neil. Now we get to this season were he has to coach a shell of a team, gets, fired, and replaced by a rookie head coach. Mac was the coach hired to make the playoffs not teach ahlers how to become stars in the NHL.

Murray's philosophy changed right in front of Macleans eyes and he was made out to be the scape goat because of Murray's failure to move this team in a direction and stick with it.

Remember when we were 1 top 6 forward and 1 top 4 D away from contending? Now where are we? A top 4 D and a top 6 forward away from making the playoffs.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

AHL is really hard to judge, though. It's like the CHL...the rosters change so much from year to year, that you really have to look at more than just wins and losses when grading the coaching staff.

 

[Micklebot]

AHL is really hard to judge, though. It's like the CHL...the rosters change so much from year to year, that you really have to look at more than just wins and losses when grading the coaching staff.

I almost feel it's worse than CHL (playoff wise) because right before the playoffs, some teams lose a bunch of guys to the big club, and other teams gain some waiver exempt players from the big club.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Don't forget knee jerk Murray with the Ryan trade. We lost Silfverberg, Noensen, and a First. I would say that pushed the rebuild in a new direction.

So Murray realized twice that his current roster was not going to get it done then? Not to mention his choices of coaches were never the problem either.

He brought Maclean in to coach a team with solid vets in Gonchar, Alfie, Spezza, Neil, Phillips(at the time), Kuba, and Michalek. Mac goes on the make the playoffs and is runner up for the Adams. Next season Mac wins the Adams and get the team to the second round with an injury plagued season. In a two year period he loses Gonchar, Alfie, Spezza, Kuba, and gets a broken Michalek a really old Phillips, and a less effective Neil. Now we get to this season were he has to coach a shell of a team, gets, fired, and replaced by a rookie head coach. Mac was the coach hired to make the playoffs not teach ahlers how to become stars in the NHL.

Murray's philosophy changed right in front of Macleans eyes and he was made out to be the scape goat because of Murray's failure to move this team in a direction and stick with it.

Remember when we were 1 top 6 forward and 1 top 4 D away from contending? Now where are we? A top 4 D and a top 6 forward away from making the playoffs.

Last year it was suppose to all come together. We got that star winger for spezza. Spezza, Michalek, karlsson and anderson were all suppose to have their injuries behind them. One reputable magazine even named the Ottawa Senators surprise favorites to win the cup.

http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/hoc...book-picks-ottawa-senators-to-win-stanley-cup

MacLean probably underachieved last year. Even if cup favorites was perhaps a tad unrealisitc that team should have been better then 10th overall. Maybe a low playoff seed.

 

[Busboy]

Don't forget knee jerk Murray with the Ryan trade. We lost Silfverberg, Noensen, and a First. I would say that pushed the rebuild in a new direction.

So Murray realized twice that his current roster was not going to get it done then? Not to mention his choices of coaches were never the problem either.

He brought Maclean in to coach a team with solid vets in Gonchar, Alfie, Spezza, Neil, Phillips(at the time), Kuba, and Michalek. Mac goes on the make the playoffs and is runner up for the Adams. Next season Mac wins the Adams and get the team to the second round with an injury plagued season. In a two year period he loses Gonchar, Alfie, Spezza, Kuba, and gets a broken Michalek a really old Phillips, and a less effective Neil. Now we get to this season were he has to coach a shell of a team, gets, fired, and replaced by a rookie head coach. Mac was the coach hired to make the playoffs not teach ahlers how to become stars in the NHL.

Murray's philosophy changed right in front of Macleans eyes and he was made out to be the scape goat because of Murray's failure to move this team in a direction and stick with it.

Remember when we were 1 top 6 forward and 1 top 4 D away from contending? Now where are we? A top 4 D and a top 6 forward away from making the playoffs.

This is a fair assesment of the situation IMO and a good perspective on why Maclean was fired. He was no longer the right coach for the job, that much was painfully obvious.

Cameron's approach is much better suited to this team and I think it will help in the long run.

In the mean time, management needs to figure out what they're doing. There were curveballs for sure, but starting at the deadline and this offseason we better see a clear direction for this organization with realistic expectations. I don't think this gets done with Murray at the helm so hopefully we have someone new coming in ASAP.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Both sides were very respectful IMO.

Fact, Spezza has clearly stated he had been thinking about asking for a trade for quite some time, it wasn't just over the past summer nor because of his last season.

Since management cannot discuss an extension until the final year of the contract, there is little doubt based on Spezza's words he initiated the end of the relationship.

People can make up all the rationale they want as to why Spezza decided to leave, but this winning stuff needs to get put to rest.

Spezza just signed a 4 year deal with a team that is 6 points ahead of Ottawa and has played one more game. Neither team is likely to make the playoffs this year.

In subsequent years the Senators have a greater potential for growth than Dallas IMO and are likely to be better than Dallas in the years to come.

No doubt. Both he and Alfie left because they wanted to leave. That's life.

 

[Stylizer1]

Last year it was suppose to all come together. We got that star winger for spezza. Spezza, Michalek, karlsson and anderson were all suppose to have their injuries behind them. One reputable magazine even named the Ottawa Senators surprise favorites to win the cup.

http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/hoc...book-picks-ottawa-senators-to-win-stanley-cup

MacLean probably underachieved last year. Even if cup favorites was perhaps a tad unrealisitc that team should have been better then 10th overall. Maybe a low playoff seed.

But did he as a coach or did the players underachieve? Murray did nothing to improve the team when they needed it. He finished 4 points lower in the standings. He never even had a losing record as coach.

 

[Micklebot]

But did he as a coach or did the players underachieve? Murray did nothing to improve the team when they needed it. He finished 4 points lower in the standings. He never even had a losing record as coach.

Ok, so did he as a coach overachieve in 2011-12 to 2012-2013 or did the players overachieve?

The fact is there were visible problems with how the team was playing defensively going back to the start of the 2013-14 seasons (system wise, as well as personnel wise). He was asked to address the former (Karlsson being healthy and Methot coming back was hoped to address the latter).

He never addressed the systemic issues with the defense, so yeah, I'd say he underachieved as a coach.

 

[Stylizer1]

Ok, so did he as a coach overachieve in 2011-12 to 2012-2013 or did the players overachieve?

The fact is there were visible problems with how the team was playing defensively going back to the start of the 2013-14 seasons (system wise, as well as personnel wise). He was asked to address the former (Karlsson being healthy and Methot coming back was hoped to address the latter).

He never addressed the systemic issues with the defense, so yeah, I'd say he underachieved as a coach.

How do you get more out of the same roster that is struggling?