Speculation: Ray Shero 'inside track' to succeed GM Bryan Murray

[Do Make Say Think]

The team told the reporters that Murray was going to be the GM next year

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

The team told the reporters that Murray was going to be the GM next year

Doesn't mean that no other potential GMs want the job. I'd rather Murray spend a year or two trying to find the right fit as a replacement than just handing the job to whoever is available at a given time anyway.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Doesn't mean that no other potential GMs want the job. I'd rather Murray spend a year or two trying to find the right fit as a replacement than just handing the job to whoever is available at a given time anyway.

What it likely means is that no other suitable candidate wants the job

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

What it likely means is that no other suitable candidate wants the job

Or that the team doesn't like any of the suitable candidates, or that Murray simply feels up to giving it another year.

 

[Super Cake]

I personally don't think this team is as far away as other people think. I mean how many 1 goal games have we lost this season? We rarely get blownout.

If we had a better powerplay or at least a better offense, we would be closer to a playoff spot.

This offseason coming up is really going to be a important one.

 

[Micklebot]

Reliable rumours that Shero was on the inside track for the job

A full blown article in the Citizen about Murray looking for a successor

Suddenly he isn't going anywhere and was misquoted?

That means no one wants the job and/or that the people who do want are not on ownership's good side. It isn't that complicated...

Holy crap that is a huge leap.

Edit: how many times have reliable rumours been wrong, how many times have articles in a paper jumped the gun? Worst part is one probably lead to the other.

 

[Super Cake]

Holy crap that is a huge leap.

Agreed. Somebody is making way too big of a deal out of something that is not there.

 

[jason2020]

Do Make Say Think

I don't think Buffalo will be better next year when you have a young super star it take time look at the Islanders.

 

[jason2020]

Agreed. Somebody is making way too big of a deal out of something that is not there.

There is a group of fans that thinks/wants things to be worse then they are.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Holy crap that is a huge leap.

Edit: how many times have reliable rumours been wrong, how many times have articles in a paper jumped the gun? Worst part is one probably lead to the other.

I like to think the Citizen didn't just make an entire article on Murray looking for his successor without talking to the team first

I could be wrong but I doubt it

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Reliable rumours that Shero was on the inside track for the job

A full blown article in the Citizen about Murray looking for a successor

Suddenly he isn't going anywhere and was misquoted?

That means no one wants the job and/or that the people who do want are not on ownership's good side. It isn't that complicated



Spezza thinks Dallas offers him a better chance at winning than we do, Alfie felt Ottawa did not offer him a good shot, Heatley saw the writting on the wall etc... We bleed talent regularly

I can accept Methot missing a lot of games being a problem that came out of nowhere, that's fine

Turris and MacArthur though, we all knew they weren't top line material. The problem here, as has been the problem over the last two to three years, has been that this team buys into it's own hype.

Spezza tells the story he wants to tell, the fact is if he wanted to be a winner he wouldn't have signed for 4 years with Dallas, simply because Dallas isn't close to winning a cup IMO.

Alfie left for other reasons IMO, the unadulterated truth may never be known. However that was a one year loss of a 40 year old player.

Heatley was a jerk. Please remind me of how this great talent did after sulking his way out of Ottawa???

In regards to your opinion on Turris and MacArthur, over stated IMO.

While some might have expected Turris to go through a period of adjustment playing in the #1C role, I doubt many would have predicted both of these players would be producing at 50% of their 2013-14 level.

I also doubt many would have predicted Legwand would be at best an average 4th line center.

Last, not many would have predicted the PP would be so abysmal with players like Ryan, Karlsson, Turris, Hoffman, MacArthur, Stone, Zibanejad etc available.

Reality is the young guys are developing, learning the requirements of playing in the NHL. Most games the team is competitive, yet like most young players/teams lack consistency, which is probably the single biggest reason they aren't in the playoff hunt.

The other big contributing factor is the play of the veterans, in general it just hasn't been close to good enough.

 

[Stylizer1]

The only joke is when people can't accept reality and start to take everything said by management as guarantees.

Murray clearly believed this team was capable of a playoff spot prior to the start of the season.

However he didn't know Methot was going to miss 36 games, nor did he know Turris, Legwand & MacArthur were going to halve their production.

I assume you must have known or you are just another fairweather fan that probably doesn't attend games because its out in that wilderness called Kanata.

Fact is management always knew this team would be in a tough battle for a playoff spot and as of today sit 11 points out with a game in hand on the Bruins. Not at all the disaster you are making it out to be considering all the factors.

PS Regarding Spezza, last time I checked it wasn't apparent he was going to win anything in Dallas, yet he signed a long term extension there!!!!!

So winning might not be as important to Spezza as he would have you believe.

So I guess winning might not be as important to Bobby Ryan too?

 

[Holdurbreathe]

I like to think the Citizen didn't just make an entire article on Murray looking for his successor without talking to the team first

I could be wrong but I doubt it

I'm sure Murray is looking for potential candidates, but I seriously doubt the media knows who he has or plans to have discussions with.

If the media asked Shero if he has interest in the Ottawa job and indicated he had no interest, that doesn't in anyway suggest nobody wants the job.

As a matter of fact Tim Murray has stated if he had known Bryan's health status he would have stayed in Ottawa.

I am sure there would be quite a long list of people that would love the opportunity to be an NHL GM, its up to Murray/Melnyk to find the right match.

I am as positive as can be that the media will get no inside look at that process.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

All of this.

This is why I'm sick of management. You fire Maclean because he lost the room but then you throw in the BS of "we believe this is a playoff team". Well, if those are the standards you've set, then you've got to fire Cameron too. Had you come out and said, "this team is young, and we need a coach right now who can work with the players to teach them the basics." then I'd have been cool with the Cameron promotion.

Then you constantly blow smoke up our behinds about how "we'll spend when we need to" and then you do nothing of note during free agency despite the owner sounding off about how if they get in at 8th, they could go all the way and a GM that uses a first round win over Montreal to promote that this team is ready to take the next step.

I am TOTALLY cool with the Senators saying: "We are young, our plan is to let our youth develop like we are a farm team and when the moment is right, we will add to the depth of our organization to make a real run. This will take 3-5 years."

Our fans are not stupid. They were all in in 2009 when the sell-off started with Fisher and Kelly and attendance was fine. Attendance will drop because the fans are starting to get fed up with a directionless franchise that doesn't know what it wants to be.

And for **** sakes, fix the defense already. It's sheer lunacy to let this many young D-men try to find their feet in the NHL. Ceci, Cowen, Wiercoch, and Boro should STILL be in the AHL until they are ready to play in the NHL or each are sheltered by an experience GOOD veteran (Phillips does NOT fit that mold).

I get the negativity. There is no direction. "Team is young" is not a direction, it's an excuse until management indicated that this is the plan.

Well said.

I really wish the team would just say the obvious. We tried a rebuild on the fly, and the unexpected loss of some vets derailed it. Now we're starting a real rebuild primarily through the draft. It'll take a few years, and we'll miss the playoffs for a while, but we will get better.

Honestly, I think a lot of fans get most of their knowledge from TSN 1200 and The Sun, and believed all the "we're a playoff team!" hype. That's huge part of the problem. Missing the post season is now classified as a failure, when it shouldn't be.


Personally, I love the concept of a young team. Watching the kids from the moment they enter the league and watching them grow and develop...and eventually become contenders. It's almost like being a parent. Seeing the kids grow and learn is the reward, not the number of wins at the end of the season.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

So I guess winning might not be as important to Bobby Ryan too?

Bobby Ryan never asked for a trade on the basis of wanting just to win, Spezza did as I recall.

So do try to keep track of the history and not draw parallels that don't exist.

Ryan is a class act, he signed because he believed in what the organization is doing and has a great deal of respect for Bryan Murray.

If you watched the games you would know Ryan wants to win.

 

[Micklebot]

I like to think the Citizen didn't just make an entire article on Murray looking for his successor without talking to the team first

I could be wrong but I doubt it

The article was an interview with Murray in which he said he'd evaluate things at the end of the season (they intrepreted that as he's likely to step down at the end of the season). It aslo stated that Melnyk told him he'd chose his successor, and that Murray's candidates include Dorian, Lee and potential some outside options. They interpreted that as currently looking for a successor.

It seems to me the only thing that has changed is the timelines that the citizen has incorrectly assumed.

In fact, all the quotes in the article point towards him haveing yet to make up his mind, but certain that he would at least play through the year and then re-evaluate.

“I think I’ve got to take a look at it at the end of this year,†Murray says, flatly. “My wife would like me to take off. Geri’s been good, though. She says, ‘I know you have to have something to do.’

“I don’t know whether I can just put my feet up.â€


“All Eugene said to me was, ‘you’re going to pick the next guy, Bryan. Work with me on it, but you come up with when you’re going to transfer it over.’â€

“What am I going to do?†Murray says. “Play through the year. Wait and see. I have to have a talk with Eugene. He has something to say here, too.

“Maybe it’s time to move on. That’s OK, too.â€

So Murray gives and interview in which he discloses that he will at some point step down and at that time he will chose his successor. He states that he will evalute at the end of the year (not right away) and decide if it's time.

One would presume that the search for a successor would intensify once he made his decision on whether or not to step down, and that's why the article said "The candidates: Current assistant GMs Pierre Dorion and Randy Lee, plus outside possibilities. Murray says it’s too early to say which way it will go"

So, at no point did any quotes from Murray suggest the search for a successor had started in any meaningful way. To the contrary, it suggesting timelines were far from set.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Well said.

I really wish the team would just say the obvious. We tried a rebuild on the fly, and the unexpected loss of some vets derailed it. Now we're starting a real rebuild primarily through the draft. It'll take a few years, and we'll miss the playoffs for a while, but we will get better.

Honestly, I think a lot of fans get most of their knowledge from TSN 1200 and The Sun, and believed all the "we're a playoff team!" hype. That's huge part of the problem. Missing the post season is now classified as a failure, when it shouldn't be.


Personally, I love the concept of a young team. Watching the kids from the moment they enter the league and watching them grow and develop...and eventually become contenders. It's almost like being a parent. Seeing the kids grow and learn is the reward, not the number of wins at the end of the season.

Since the rebuild was announced the only two player the Sens lost were Alfie (1 year) and Spezza.

Did that set the team back, Alfie definitely, Spezza to a lesser extent IMO.

At the same time draftees were being introduced to the NHL, Karlsson, Greening, Smith, Condra, Lehner, Cowen, Zibanejad, Weircoich, Ceci, Gryba, Stone, Hoffman, Pageau, Lazar, and Borowiecki.

Of the above 15 draftees some won't pan out or stay with the Sens, Greening is the first in this category. At the same time 14 of these players are currently on the Sens roster.

14 of the 23 players currently on the Sens roster come via the draft.

This process started with EK 5 years ago and has accelerated to the point that 60% of the team is homegrown talent.

Yet you think the team needs to be honest and tell you they are starting a full rebuild??

Please tell me what % of the roster needs to be composed of drafted players to be considered a full rebuild?

You might have missed it, which I doubt, but this team has under gone a full rebuild and is now in the development and evaluation stage.

There will be puts and takes, more veterans and some of the current crop of young players will go, potentially replaced by players like Puempel, Prince, Harper, etc.

It is how a rebuild takes place.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

Honestly, I think a lot of fans get most of their knowledge from TSN 1200 and The Sun, and believed all the "we're a playoff team!" hype. That's huge part of the problem. Missing the post season is now classified as a failure, when it shouldn't be.


Personally, I love the concept of a young team. Watching the kids from the moment they enter the league and watching them grow and develop...and eventually become contenders. It's almost like being a parent. Seeing the kids grow and learn is the reward, not the number of wins at the end of the season.

Nope, I got that from Murray and Dorion who said we were a playoff team for sure and DOrion who jokingly said there was no roster limit in June. There's probably not a roster limit in April when you're not in the playoffs either...

Yeah, about being a parent, when the kids fail year in and year out at some point you need to address the issue with either counselling, new methods/schooling or (if they are adults) maybe let them go their own way if you've done all you can.

 

[Stylizer1]

Bobby Ryan never asked for a trade on the basis of wanting just to win, Spezza did as I recall.

So do try to keep track of the history and not draw parallels that don't exist.

Ryan is a class act, he signed because he believed in what the organization is doing and has a great deal of respect for Bryan Murray.

If you watched the games you would know Ryan wants to win.

Asking for a trade has nothing to do with this.

He asked for a trade because Murnyk wouldn't spend money to improve the team anytime soon. They wanted to move on as much as Spezza wanted to leave.

Spezza re-signed with Dallas because 1) they have a Canadian owner and 2) the are willing to spend to the cap.

Chicago, LA, and STL have all been fighting with cap issues for a while now and is only a matter of time before they start to dip especially if the cap goes down. Spezza has another 5 season with one of the best players in the league. Plus no tax.

 

[Stylizer1]

Since the rebuild was announced the only two player the Sens lost were Alfie (1 year) and Spezza.

Did that set the team back, Alfie definitely, Spezza to a lesser extent IMO.

At the same time draftees were being introduced to the NHL, Karlsson, Greening, Smith, Condra, Lehner, Cowen, Zibanejad, Weircoich, Ceci, Gryba, Stone, Hoffman, Pageau, Lazar, and Borowiecki.

Of the above 15 draftees some won't pan out or stay with the Sens, Greening is the first in this category. At the same time 14 of these players are currently on the Sens roster.

14 of the 23 players currently on the Sens roster come via the draft.

This process started with EK 5 years ago and has accelerated to the point that 60% of the team is homegrown talent.

Yet you think the team needs to be honest and tell you they are starting a full rebuild??

Please tell me what % of the roster needs to be composed of drafted players to be considered a full rebuild?

You might have missed it, which I doubt, but this team has under gone a full rebuild and is now in the development and evaluation stage.

There will be puts and takes, more veterans and some of the current crop of young players will go, potentially replaced by players like Puempel, Prince, Harper, etc.

It is how a rebuild takes place.

We also lost Gonchar.

This "rebuild" was done in 2 parts which was a slow process.

That is what I think people are talking about in regards to their frustration. Murray said so himself that he thought the team was better than they were.

The fact is we lost 3 veteran pieces who were vital in our success because of money. You can blame those players for wanting out but it was the team that decided not to spend.

 

[The Jangle Meister*]

Bryan Murray needs to GTFO, if he is not stepping down then fire him. We need a new GM to fix this team.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

The article was an interview with Murray in which he said he'd evaluate things at the end of the season (they intrepreted that as he's likely to step down at the end of the season). It aslo stated that Melnyk told him he'd chose his successor, and that Murray's candidates include Dorian, Lee and potential some outside options. They interpreted that as currently looking for a successor.

It seems to me the only thing that has changed is the timelines that the citizen has incorrectly assumed.

In fact, all the quotes in the article point towards him haveing yet to make up his mind, but certain that he would at least play through the year and then re-evaluate.

“I think I’ve got to take a look at it at the end of this year,†Murray says, flatly. “My wife would like me to take off. Geri’s been good, though. She says, ‘I know you have to have something to do.’

“I don’t know whether I can just put my feet up.â€


“All Eugene said to me was, ‘you’re going to pick the next guy, Bryan. Work with me on it, but you come up with when you’re going to transfer it over.’â€

“What am I going to do?†Murray says. “Play through the year. Wait and see. I have to have a talk with Eugene. He has something to say here, too.

“Maybe it’s time to move on. That’s OK, too.â€

So Murray gives and interview in which he discloses that he will at some point step down and at that time he will chose his successor. He states that he will evalute at the end of the year (not right away) and decide if it's time.

One would presume that the search for a successor would intensify once he made his decision on whether or not to step down, and that's why the article said "The candidates: Current assistant GMs Pierre Dorion and Randy Lee, plus outside possibilities. Murray says it’s too early to say which way it will go"

So, at no point did any quotes from Murray suggest the search for a successor had started in any meaningful way. To the contrary, it suggesting timelines were far from set.

Fair enough

Still, the team feeling like it was necessary to go out and claim Murray was mis-quoted when you seem to claim he wasn't is telling

I think it's pretty clear things are not going well internally

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Asking for a trade has nothing to do with this.

He asked for a trade because Murnyk wouldn't spend money to improve the team anytime soon. They wanted to move on as much as Spezza wanted to leave.

Spezza re-signed with Dallas because 1) they have a Canadian owner and 2) the are willing to spend to the cap.

Chicago, LA, and STL have all been fighting with cap issues for a while now and is only a matter of time before they start to dip especially if the cap goes down. Spezza has another 5 season with one of the best players in the league. Plus no tax.

Nowhere did you ever hear Spezza say anything like you just posted and asking for a trade has everything to do with my initial post.

If the Sens wanted to move on, why did Murray offer Spezza a contract extension prior to the trade (reported in the Citizen & Sun and stated in a Murray press conference).

I really respectfully suggest you stop using Nick, Doug and the boys in TO as a source for anything, since I believe that is where the Spezza wanted the team to spend money rumour started.

Again I must ask for a source for your claim about why Spezza re-signed in Dallas, because it isn't consistent with what has been reported nor is it what he said in his press conference.

IMO Spezza signed with Dallas for two reason, the 4 year $30M contract and the fact he and his family like it away from the media circus.

While it appears most of your post appears to be speculation, the last paragraph is nothing but.

While it is true the teams mentioned are tight to the cap, you failed to mention so is Dallas (currently $1.2M short of the cap).

Now even if CHI, LA & STL slide, that still leaves 17 teams better than Dallas (20 currently), so all this stuff about Spezza wanting the Sens to spend money or the trade was all about winning is just media and fan noise.

IMO Jason wanted a new start somewhere else, nothing more or less.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

We also lost Gonchar.

This "rebuild" was done in 2 parts which was a slow process.

That is what I think people are talking about in regards to their frustration. Murray said so himself that he thought the team was better than they were.

The fact is we lost 3 veteran pieces who were vital in our success because of money. You can blame those players for wanting out but it was the team that decided not to spend.

The Sens didn't lose Gonchar, they let him go, which was the smart move.

Only one player, who had more than a year or two left in his career was lost, Spezza.

Bryan believed this team was good enough to compete for a playoff spot, heard him say he thought it should be a playoff team prior to the season.

IMO complaining about the GMs prognosis for his team versus actual results is quite frankly pointless/meaningless.

I bet Lombardi, Fletcher, or Sakic are even more surprised and disappointed their respective teams are outside the playoff picture with 30 games remaining.

Do you think these GMs told their fanbases they expected to be a playoff team?

PS the rebuild wasn't slow, the early results were too quick coming which hurt the team at the draft and set false expectations IMO.

 

[Stylizer1]

Nowhere did you ever hear Spezza say anything like you just posted and asking for a trade has everything to do with my initial post.

If the Sens wanted to move on, why did Murray offer Spezza a contract extension prior to the trade (reported in the Citizen & Sun and stated in a Murray press conference).

I really respectfully suggest you stop using Nick, Doug and the boys in TO as a source for anything, since I believe that is where the Spezza wanted the team to spend money rumour started.

Again I must ask for a source for your claim about why Spezza re-signed in Dallas, because it isn't consistent with what has been reported nor is it what he said in his press conference.

IMO Spezza signed with Dallas for two reason, the 4 year $30M contract and the fact he and his family like it away from the media circus.

While it appears most of your post appears to be speculation, the last paragraph is nothing but.

While it is true the teams mentioned are tight to the cap, you failed to mention so is Dallas (currently $1.2M short of the cap).

The Stars are also committed to slightly over $50M for next season, leaving the ~$11M to sign replacements for 3 forwards, 3 D and a goaltender.

Now even if CHI, LA & STL slide, that still leaves 17 teams better than Dallas (20 currently), so all this stuff about Spezza wanting the Sens to spend money or the trade was all about winning is just media and fan noise.

IMO Jason wanted a new start somewhere else, nothing more or less.

Spezza was very respectable when he left and didn't throw anyone under the bus. This was about helping the team out. If you actually listened to what Spezza said it is clear he wanted to go to a team who had a desire to win, same with Alfie. He always stopped short of saying that the team refusing to spend was the cause but look at how the team is running. Spezza's last season was full of management NOT standing behind him in the press and using him as a scapegoat to why things weren't right.

Management made the decision not to re-sign him first.

There were lots of reasons that influenced him wanting out and the reasons management gave only make them out to be the "we tried guys".

Why would Spezza want to stick around for another 5 years waiting for a rebuild to either work or not pan out. If he wanted to stay I would question his desire to win and save him a spot him at the Phillips and Neil country club table.

I don't doubt the way they treated Alfie had him thinking of his future sooner than becoming a UFA.

It's clear you only believe what the Sens beat writers have to say and soak up all the rays of Murray's aurora.