Rank the Canadian teams going forward

[thadd]

Winnipeg - If their goaltending shines next year they've still got everything on paper to be a great team.
Calgary - Still don't understand how they lost in the first round, but I guess that can be said for almost every team that won in the 1st round. If they've got goaltending, they're as dangerous as any team in the league.
Toronto - Still needs help on the blueline. They could potentially make moves to fix blueline and cap issues this off-season... but Leafs fans might not want to hold their breath.
Montreal - Weber and Petry looked quite good. If Price stays healthy Habs are probably making it into the playoffs regardless of how few points their forwards put up.
Edmonton - Blueline needs to be revamped and the wings desperately need an upgrade far beyond what you'd called revamped. Maybe the goaltending might be good enough if the starting goalie didn't have swiss cheese standing in front of him. Hard to tell. My how far McDavid and Drai get you. It's flat out insane that there's actually 2 teams below them.
Vancouver - Hughes needs a big season and Vancouver's best forwards need to stay healthy and take the next step forward. Probably in need of some new parts, but the last sentence is hard enough to come by as it is.
Ottawa - I'm sorry. I don't know what to say. You guys have some nice young players and with your owner isn't as stupid as my team's owner it won't take as long for you guys to get back on your feet.

 

[Saidin]

Until the Jets get rid of Maurice, they'll be at best 3rd.

 

[The Podium]

The Leafs are about to lose some talent also........they are soon in cap doom. The Leafs D will be pretty bad next year, unless Me-lander and Kadri get traded for D?

Why does everyone make it seem impossible for Toronto so sign everyone.

This is keeping the roster 90% the same:

They need to shed 3 million which is either Brown + something or one Kadri, Nylander or Zaitsev.

Heres an example with proposed trades (e.g. Kadri + Johnsson for Pesce + Wallmark and Brown for Khaira)

 

[mouz135]

Anyone who doesn't have Edmonton ranked 7 hasn't been paying attention the last 5 years. Even McDavid couldn't cure the rot in that franchise. In fact it seems the rot is now getting to him too.

It will never matter what players are on the ice while Lowe and Co yuck it up in the rafters.

But they have McJesus, so potential. And all that..Sooner or later he's gonna carry them to the Cup, right? RIGHT?!

Yeah right Clownshoes team

 

[StumpyTown]

Why does everyone make it seem impossible for Toronto so sign everyone.

This is keeping the roster 90% the same:
View attachment 221345 They need to shed 3 million which is either Brown + something or one Kadri, Nylander or Zaitsev.

Heres an example with proposed trades (e.g. Kadri + Johnsson for Pesce + Wallmark and Brown for Khaira)
View attachment 221347

I agree that Toronto likely loses less depth than people think they will, but at the same time there is very little chance Marner signs for 9.5 when he consistently outperforms the guys making 11+.

 

[The Podium]

I agree that Toronto likely loses less depth than people think they will, but at the same time there is very little chance Marner signs for 9.5 when he consistently outperforms the guys making 11+.

In the first proposal I have him at 10, the second I have him at 9.5 because I have Kapanen signing for higher dollar longer term.

Marner disappeared these playoffs which may hurt his value a bit. Matthews had been playing most of the season injured, is a C, performed in these playoffs, and was on pace for 6 fewer point without having the benefit of playing with Tavares. While Marner is my favourite player, Matthews is more valuable. I want a 9.5 x 8 but am expecting 10x6. The only change would be for Kapanen to be bridged if that was the case rather than the 5x4mil that I proposed.

 

[Volica]

In the first proposal I have him at 10, the second I have him at 9.5 because I have Kapanen signing for higher dollar longer term.

Marner disappeared these playoffs which may hurt his value a bit. Matthews had been playing most of the season injured, is a C, performed in these playoffs, and was on pace for 6 fewer point without having the benefit of playing with Tavares. While Marner is my favourite player, Matthews is more valuable. I want a 9.5 x 8 but am expecting 10x6. The only change would be for Kapanen to be bridged if that was the case rather than the 5x4mil that I proposed.

There is all of 0 chance Marner agrees to a 10 million dollar contract, when the dude he's playing with just had a career year, and the dude he outperformed over the year is making more. Take somewhere between Matthews/Tavares and you'll have your Marner contract. There's zero way he makes less. I was saying the same shit when Matthews was negotiating, and Leafs fans here bashed the hell out of me

Also. You're going to have a fun time convincing two twenty goal scorers to sign for a combined 5 millionish.
Those guys are both going to want 3.5+ on a short term bridge to try and cash out in a couple seasons.

 

[The Podium]

There is all of 0 chance Marner agrees to a 10 million dollar contract, when the dude he's playing with just had a career year, and the dude he outperformed over the year is making more. Take somewhere between Matthews/Tavares and you'll have your Marner contract. There's zero way he makes less. I was saying the same **** when Matthews was negotiating, and Leafs fans here bashed the hell out of me

Also. You're going to have a fun time convincing two twenty goal scorers to sign for a combined 5 millionish.
Those guys are both going to want 3.5+ on a short term bridge to try and cash out in a couple seasons.

So Marner should make between Matthews and Tavares? Can I ask why? In the top 10 in league AAV only Doughty, Price and Kane are not C's. It is well established that C's make top dollar in the league, even if other players are better or more valuable.

Dont get me wrong, Marner is my favourite player, but as a winger he is not worth Tavares or Matthews money. Now add that JT was a UFA not an RFA and its a knock against Marner. Marner produced well, and yes JT had a career year, but scoring is up and relative to league scoring it is actually less than his 14-15 season. Matthews played through multiple injuries and was centring a line of Johnson and Kapanen, 2 rookies who are middle 6 wingers, while Marner had the benefit of playing with a top 10 C in the league. While Marner "outperformed" Matthews, it was by only 6 points (from what Matthews was on pace for) while playing with significantly better line mates and over a minute more per game. Marner also was a no-show these playoffs after game 1, while Matthews was dominant. You can argue that the opposite was true last year, but for the same reason. The line that was matched against Bergeron&co were invisible.

So yes, Marner is the heart and soul of this team, but he doesnt deserve Tavares or Matthews money. Is it unfair? Yes, but it isnt like hell be getting chump change, and the best player in the world was just recently signed to a comparable deal for the same position.

Also those 2 20 goal scorers wont make much. It is their rookie season, they had the benefit of playing with Auston Matthews for the majority of it and comparables around the league arent making nearly as much. Connor Brown got 2.1 after a similar rookie season. Ondrej Kase got 2.6 starting this season. Bjorkstrand, Vatrano, Wood, Sheary, the list goes on and on.

 

[unknownbrother]

Why does everyone make it seem impossible for Toronto so sign everyone.

This is keeping the roster 90% the same:
View attachment 221345 They need to shed 3 million which is either Brown + something or one Kadri, Nylander or Zaitsev.

Heres an example with proposed trades (e.g. Kadri + Johnsson for Pesce + Wallmark and Brown for Khaira)
View attachment 221347

Why would Carolina even entertain that trade proposal? You and other Leafs fans with similar ideas need to face the reality that you can't sign everyone. There's other teams that also need to improve their D so it's not going to be simple for Toronto. The whole league knows you need to move a player or two and there'll be competition for top 4 D from a lot of teams. Plus a big trade piece, Nylander, no longer has the same value as 12 months ago thanks to a less than flattering playoffs.

 

[The Podium]

Why would Carolina even entertain that trade proposal? You and other Leafs fans with similar ideas need to face the reality that you can't sign everyone. There's other teams that also need to improve their D so it's not going to be simple for Toronto. The whole league knows you need to move a player or two and there'll be competition for top 4 D from a lot of teams. Plus a big trade piece, Nylander, no longer has the same value as 12 months ago thanks to a less than flattering playoffs.

It was an example of a trade proposal, there are also other deals that can be made. If Clarkson for Horton could happen, other creative deals can potentially be worked out. I never said it will be simple, but it is a lot closer than everyone is making it seem.

 

[Harry22]

Why does everyone make it seem impossible for Toronto so sign everyone.

This is keeping the roster 90% the same:
View attachment 221345 They need to shed 3 million which is either Brown + something or one Kadri, Nylander or Zaitsev.

Heres an example with proposed trades (e.g. Kadri + Johnsson for Pesce + Wallmark and Brown for Khaira)
View attachment 221347

Yes they are keeping 90% of the same roster that lost in the first round for the second straight year. Their defense is still terrible with almost no room for improvement. Also, like him or not, the Leafs defense is in worse shape without Gardiner.

 

[The Podium]

Yes they are keeping 90% of the same roster that lost in the first round for the second year. Their defense is still terrible with almost no room for improvement.

They lost in the first round to a higher seed, lets not pretend that they choked.

 

[Harry22]

They lost in the first round to a higher seed, lets not pretend that they choked.

Where did I say that they choked? You are making it sound like keeping 90% of the roster intact is a good thing. It does not seem so. They need to improve their defense big time and have little or no space to do so.

 

[The Podium]

Where did I say that they choked? You are making it sound like keeping 90% of the roster intact is a good thing. It does not seem so. They need to improve their defense big time and have little or no space to do so.

Considering they lost to the 3rd overall team in the league, a first round exit isnt a true first round exit. While im not trying to make excuses, it was a tough matchup and it went the distance. If the series plays out 10 times, im sure each side will come out winning 5 times a piece.

Do they need to improve? Yes, but a lot of the improvement can be internal. Another season of growth, proper ice time for their star players, in game adjustments, improvements on the special teams. A lot of their issues were coaching related, not player related. While you think they need to improve their D "big time", it was fine through the series, although it can use an improvement. Game 7 Gardiner wont be a problem next year, aging Hainsey who cannot clear the zone wont be a problem next year. However, with that said, I am not naive and know the loss of Gardiner will be a bigger blow than most people in Leaf nation are predicting.

Rielly, Muzzin, Dermott are 3 solid top 4 guys. Ideally Rosen/Liljegren come in and prove they are worth NHL bottom pairing minutes. Zaitsev, while im higher on than most, likely is a cap casualty so the Leafs will need a bottom pairing and top 4 D going into next season. Who will that be? Im not sure, but I suspect one of Kadri, Nylander, Johnson, Kapanen will be going the other way to make that deal.

 

[unknownbrother]

It was an example of a trade proposal, there are also other deals that can be made. If Clarkson for Horton could happen, other creative deals can potentially be worked out. I never said it will be simple, but it is a lot closer than everyone is making it seem.

The Clarkson-Horton trade was two teams exchanging bad contracts. It wasn't one playoff team giving away key pieces to considerably help out another playoff team in the same conference. Why would Carolina or any team trying to get back to the playoffs next season make that kind of trade?

 

[The Podium]

The Clarkson-Horton trade was two teams exchanging bad contracts. It wasn't one playoff team giving away key pieces to considerably help out another playoff team in the same conference. Why would Carolina or any team trying to get back to the playoffs next season make that kind of trade?

The Clarkson - Horton trade was a deal of dead dollars for a player that can play. There was a financial motive on Columbus's end. Learn your facts bud.

 

[mondo3]

I think the ranking of Wpg vs Tor for top "potential" team will depend upon what players they each sign/acquire in trade this off season. For example, if Wpg trades Trouba for a first just draft picks, they would likely regress as they have no one to fill his spot anywhere near his level of play. If Toronto trades Nylander for a top defenseman, that would greatly improve their outlook

 

[unknownbrother]

The Clarkson - Horton trade was a deal of dead dollars for a player that can play. There was a financial motive on Columbus's end. Learn your facts bud.

Well not really. Horton on LTIR doesn't hurt your team as much as Clarkson who wasn't a player worth the cap hit just to have "a player that can play". It was a dumb trade by Columbus at the time.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Basically everyone was over rated. No one made it out of the first round, and the Leafs went deeper than anyone else (games played).

However seeing people claim the defense was the reason the Leafs lost when so much data and discussions have been out there, just shows how shallow a lot of the analysis on here is.

Leafs lost because:

- Their PK was historically bad
- Their PP couldn't score for months with no coaching adjustments
- Rolling the lines and never stacking up lines or double shifting players in key moments.
- Team stopped scoring outside of a few players
- Brain farts in game 7 by Andersen / Dermott / Gardiner.

Yet reading on here you would think every team is perfect with no defensive breakdowns. Tampa and their top 5 defense looks just as paniced in their own end when heavy forecheck happens. The Leafs had the Bruins running around their own end like chickens for a lot of the series.

Stop being lazy and actually watch other teams before repeating opinions without much weight to them.

 

[The Podium]

Well not really. Horton on LTIR doesn't hurt your team as much as Clarkson who wasn't a player worth the cap hit just to have "a player that can play". It was a dumb trade by Columbus at the time.

Considering Horton wasn’t insured and Clarkson ended up on LTIR as well it worked out for both teams.

 

[koth]

Calgary
Winnipeg
Toronto
Montreal
Vancouver
Edmonton
Ottawa

 

[didimentionlarseller]

Montreal will be the next Canadian team to win the cup - I am absurdly certain about this. It won't be anytime soon

for reference I did successfully predict Lars Eller and this is my next prophecy

 

[Pyrophorus]

No one has any faith in Liljegren/Sandin or Hollowell

The D was always coming...

 

[Menzinger]

Its crazy how much respect the Jets seem to ge.

They only managed to win two playofd games and their underlying numbers were terrible fo he most of the year. AND they're probably going to lose Trouba this offseason

 

[General Disarray]

Its crazy how much respect the Jets seem to ge.

They only managed to win two playofd games and their underlying numbers were terrible fo he most of the year. AND they're probably going to lose Trouba this offseason

Exactly. How anyone can have them or Calgary above Toronto is mindboggling. Jets lost in 6 games to some unknown goalie. If they played Boston they probably get swept.