Rank the Canadian teams going forward

[HABitual Fan]

I don’t think you understand the point. .918% isn’t great. It’s average, he’s been coming down to earth lately and we’re still winning

Keep reaching with your comparisons though

I don't see enough of him to comment on his performance till now. The only thing I will say is that I am always hesitant to judge goalies on their first season, especially when they replace the starter due to bad performance or injury.

In Montreal we have seen that with goalies like Huet and Condon. Once teams are forced to deal with an opposing goalie as a starter as opposed to a back-up, they do much more video scouting and will start to find tendancies and weaknesses as opposed to facing a guy who is a complete surprise. This may be why his save % is dropping lately.

Pierre had a famous quote on Montreal radio where he said "the book is out on Huet" after his first season, and this proved true. Let the year run out and see if he is the answer next year before getting too excited by his play, I think Winnipeg fans have also seen that happen with their presumed starter for this year.

A partial season as a starter, is not enough of a sample size for a goalie, it takes doing it year after year against opponents who have had the time and desire to dissect your game to know if he is the real deal.

 

[Legend123]

It's semantics based on the definition of a prospect, especially when we are talking about future potential. He is younger than Suzuki , Poehling and company why would he not be included in a discussion about future success? He passes an arbitrary "amount of games played" and now he is no longer in the discussion when talking about the Habs promising future? That doesn't make sense to me in the context of this thread.

This is their 20 and under group:

Kotkaniemi (C)
Suzuki (C/RW)
Poehling (C)
Ylonen (RW)
Ikonen (W)
Olofsson (C)
Mete (D)
Juulsen (D)
Romanov (D)
Brook (D)
Primeau (G)

It's a top 5-10 group in this league , definately not to be dismissed as average. Most of these players have played very important roles on their WJC teams since 2017.

That is an insane amount of youth injection. God damn! Plus we got like 20M in cap space next season. Who know if we can lure a Duchene/Karlsson/Panarin.

 

[Uncle Bill]

You have no case. Listing a couple of current NHL players per team says nothing about the team's success, its overall young core, or its prospect pool. As a team, Montreal is about the youngest roster in the league with possibly the best prospect pool among Canadian teams. At present, the only Canadian team with any gap above them is Calgary. Moving forward, their prospects project higher than most other teams.

Kindly post a link supporting this youngest team in the league claim. Every list I've found shows them as one of the youngest (5th to 10th~).

2018-2019 NHL Team Salaries, Team Salary Caps - NHL Numbers

 

[HABitual Fan]

Getting back to the original discussion, as a Habs fan I am plesaently surprised by the performance this year, but also think that the bright future is not going to be 3 years from now, but more like 5 years when the current group of non NHL prospects start to play a role.

3 years would require you to at least have decent players in the AHL currently, which Montreal does not with a couple of exceptions. As long as they keep building and improving without losing draft picks and trading prospects for veterans, anything is possible and hard to predict, but the direction is better than what we have seen in a long time.

3 years from now, I think based on each teams prospects currently, and when they will be ready, I don't see a major shift from where things stand today.

 

[crackdown44]

I don't see enough of him to comment on his performance till now. The only thing I will say is that I am always hesitant to judge goalies on their first season, especially when they replace the starter due to bad performance or injury.

In Montreal we have seen that with goalies like Huet and Condon. Once teams are forced to deal with an opposing goalie as a starter as opposed to a back-up, they do much more video scouting and will start to find tendancies and weaknesses as opposed to facing a guy who is a complete surprise. This may be why his save % is dropping lately.

Pierre had a famous quote on Montreal radio where he said "the book is out on Huet" after his first season, and this proved true. Let the year run out and see if he is the answer next year before getting too excited by his play, I think Winnipeg fans have also seen that happen with their presumed starter for this year.

A partial season as a starter, is not enough of a sample size for a goalie, it takes doing it year after year against opponents who have had the time and desire to dissect your game to know if he is the real deal.

I agree 100%. But there’s no reason to say he’s difinitively going to be trash like the poster I responded to is saying. More time is needed to see what he is but he’s not doing anything ridiculous this season by any standard. He’s just playing competently, not spectacularly

 

[crowi]

Calgary
Jets/Leafs
Montreal/Edmonton
Vancouver/Edmonton
Ottawa.

 

[HABitual Fan]

It's semantics based on the definition of a prospect, especially when we are talking about future potential. He is younger than Suzuki , Poehling and company why would he not be included in a discussion about future success? He passes an arbitrary "amount of games played" and now he is no longer in the discussion when talking about the Habs promising future? That doesn't make sense to me in the context of this thread.

This is their 20 and under group:

Kotkaniemi (C)
Suzuki (C/RW)
Poehling (C)
Ylonen (RW)
Ikonen (W)
Olofsson (C)
Mete (D)
Juulsen (D)
Romanov (D)
Brook (D)
Primeau (G)

It's a top 5-10 group in this league , definately not to be dismissed as average. Most of these players have played very important roles on their WJC teams since 2017.

As a fellow Hab fan that list is encouraging, but many of those are still far away from helping the big club. Where we are lacking is the players in the NHL in the 20 to 23 age group that other teams have, and due to poor drafting and development, we do not have them, not in Montreal and not in Laval(AHL). We are a couple of years behind still. Next year is when we hopefully will get some of them starting to hit Laval and we will see what we actually have.

 

[HABitual Fan]

Kindly post a link supporting this youngest team in the league claim. Every list I've found shows them as one of the youngest (5th to 10th~).

2018-2019 NHL Team Salaries, Team Salary Caps - NHL Numbers

I think that the numbers were much different earlier in the season when you had Weber not counted and guys like De La Rose and Scherback on the roster as opposed to the older players like D'Agostino and Chaput that replaced them. These numbers don't take much to change ranking drastically as they are very close near the bottom.

 

[Legend123]

As a fellow Hab fan that list is encouraging, but many of those are still far away from helping the big club. Where we are lacking is the players in the NHL in the 20 to 23 age group that other teams have, and due to poor drafting and development, we do not have them, not in Montreal and not in Laval(AHL). We are a couple of years behind still. Next year is when we hopefully will get some of them starting to hit Laval and we will see what we actually have.

You dont need a good AHL team to be good. We just need our prospects to do well there if they cant make the direct jump.

 

[HABitual Fan]

You dont need a good AHL team to be good. We just need our prospects to do well there if they cant make the direct jump.

I never said that you do. My point was that if you look at a top 20 list of Habs prospects you will only find a few like Evans, Fleury,Lindgren and MvNiven currently in Laval. This means that the prospects we are high on, and most of the names on his list are still too far away to help in 3 years as was the subject of this thread at one time. I really hope that win or lose at the NHL level, we do not rush any of these players and let them develop properly.

 

[Legend123]

I never said that you do. My point was that if you look at a top 20 list of Habs prospects you will only find a few like Evans, Fleury,Lindgren and MvNiven currently in Laval. This means that the prospects we are high on, and most of the names on his list are still too far away to help in 3 years as was the subject of this thread at one time. I really hope that win or lose at the NHL level, we do not rush any of these players and let them develop properly.

That isnt necessarily true since prospects can make the jump directly from college or higher or equal leagues such as the KHL/Liiga where many if our top prospects are playing.
Only Suzuki and Brook as our top end prospects are playing among kids

 

[Lebowski]

Toronto/Winnipeg
Calgary
Vancouver/Montreal/Edmonton
Ottawa

 

[Korpse]

He played 17 games in the NHL.

Again it’s counterintuitive. Especially if you are looking at the immediate future.

 

[HABitual Fan]

That isnt necessarily true since prospects can make the jump directly from college or higher or equal leagues such as the KHL/Liiga where many if our top prospects are playing.
Only Suzuki and Brook as our top end prospects are playing among kids

I don't consider any of them high end enough for that. I think all will benefit from at least a year in Laval. We ruined too many guys by rushing them because we had nobody better to play. Now thankfully we do.

 

[Legend123]

Again it’s counterintuitive. Especially if you are looking at the immediate future.

But then we will factor all players under a certain age regardless if they are superstars or not. Should we include Matthews Dahlin? Where do we stop?

 

[Korpse]

But then we will factor all players under a certain age regardless if they are superstars or not. Should we include Matthews Dahlin? Where do we stop?

Personally I would. If im looking at where a team is going to be in 3-5 years, I'm not going to omit players because they have too many games played. If anything it makes more sense to omit 18 and 19 year olds considering that there is far more uncertainty on whether they will even make the jump, let alone what their potential will be at the NHL level.

This thread happens every year, go back and look at some of them.

 

[Legend123]

Personally I would. If im looking at where a team is going to be in 3-5 years, I'm not going to omit players because they have too many games played. If anything it makes more sense to omit 18 and 19 year olds considering that there is far more uncertainty on whether they will even make the jump, let alone what their potential will be at the NHL level.

This thread happens every year, go back and look at some of them.

But dude we were talking about prospect pool not future team outlook. Theres a difference.

 

[Volica]

It's semantics based on the definition of a prospect, especially when we are talking about future potential. He is younger than Suzuki , Poehling and company why would he not be included in a discussion about future success? He passes an arbitrary "amount of games played" and now he is no longer in the discussion when talking about the Habs promising future? That doesn't make sense to me in the context of this thread.

This is their 20 and under group:

Kotkaniemi (C)
Suzuki (C/RW)
Poehling (C)
Ylonen (RW)
Ikonen (W)
Olofsson (C)
Mete (D)
Juulsen (D)
Romanov (D)
Brook (D)
Primeau (G)

It's a top 5-10 group in this league , definately not to be dismissed as average. Most of these players have played very important roles on their WJC teams since 2017.

If you do top 21/20 yo prospects/players, you’d include guys like Patrik Laine, Auston Matthews, Matt Tkachuk and Rasmus Dahlin. I don’t want to sound like an asshole or anything, but I wouldn’t go one for all on that prospect pool to be real with you.

 

[CauZuki]

If you do top 21/20 yo prospects/players, you’d include guys like Patrik Laine, Auston Matthews, Matt Tkachuk and Rasmus Dahlin. I don’t want to sound like an ******* or anything, but I wouldn’t go one for all on that prospect pool to be real with you.

Did I say it was the best pool of under 21 players in the league? I said it was top 5-10 which I consider higher than the "average" rating we've seen thrown around in this thread.
I also mentionned in this very thread how I believe the Habs are 1-2 Kotkaniemi level prospects away from being a strong playoff team (nevermind a contender).
I think you are also selling Kotkaniemi short as he definately has 70+ point potential , is the difference between him and a Tkachuck or Laine really the Habs whole prospect pool?
You are grossly undervaluing the Habs prospects and contradicting nearly every knowledgeable hockey analyst , I don't think you are being fair in the least bit.

 

[Lshap]

Montreal right now has an average age of 26.7 years vs the Oiler average age of 26.8

NHL: Roster Breakdowns by Age

Both teams have young cores, especially up front. One big difference is that the Oilers do not have any skater older than 26 who is really playing a big role for them right now other than Russell who is ideally a #5/6 defenseman while the Habs have Petry and Weber who are both over 30.

The Oiler's prospect pool is under rated. They have Bouchard, Yamamto and Puljujarvi all 20 or under who most people know about. But they also have a solid group beyond that.

Jones and Bear both look like guys who will play in the NHL. Jones has taken huge steps this year. He played very well in his call up. Bear also played well last year in his first year as a pro after winning the WHL defenseman of the year award and after a slow start due to injuries he's back putting up points. They also signed Joel Persson who is second in scoring for defensemen in the SHL and was also second last year. Add to this group Logan Day who is one of the third is scoring amongst rookie defensemen in the AHL, Dmitri Samorukov, Filip Begrlund and William Lagassen and the Oilers actually have a fairly strong pool on the back end.

Their prospect group on the wings is also solid if not spectacular. In addition to Puljujarvi and Yamamoto, the have Tyler Benson who is currently Bakersfield's leading scorer and is 4th in rookie scoring in the AHL. Benson was a former WHL first overall pick who probably goes in the top of the first round had he not had injury issues. Cooper Marody can play either center or wing. He is 5th in rookie scoring in the AHL but he tied for second in pts/game with the likes of Jordan Kyrou. Marody is very skilled, was one of the NCAA's top scorers last year and did not really look out of place in his time up with Edmonton. They also have Kirill Maksimov who actually come close to matching matched Suzuki's numbers over the last two years

Maksimov 105 gp 64g 77a 141 pts
Suzuki 102 gp 65g 89a 154 pts

and is one of the OHL's top goal scorers this year. In addition to his goal scoring prowess Maksimov is a big guy who can be nasty to play against. So while Suzuki is clearly the higher profile prospect. It's not like he has done that much more than Maksmov o that one is a sure fire NHL'er and the other is aa plug.

Frankly, I don't see a big difference between the prospect pools. One thing I do like about the Oilers prospects is that their strengths actuall complement the Oilers roster needs going forward.

I appreciate the information. Lots I didn't know!

 

[Lshap]

Kindly post a link supporting this youngest team in the league claim. Every list I've found shows them as one of the youngest (5th to 10th~).

2018-2019 NHL Team Salaries, Team Salary Caps - NHL Numbers

I said "about the youngest", knowing they were close but not necessarily #1.

 

[CauZuki]

I said "about the youngest", knowing they were close but not necessarily #1.

According to this:

Oldest and Youngest NHL Teams of 2018-19 Season

They are the 5th youngest team in the league and that doesn't include Alzner and other vets that were waived. The website mentionned above by the original poster has incorrect info for cap and other significant values. Habs are definately top 3-5 youngest in the league especially as their recently drafted prospects start making the team next year.

Benn replaced by Juulsen.
One of our younger prospects makes the team and all of a sudden we only have 3 players above 30 Price/Weber and Petry.

 

[Captain97]

To everyone with Habs below 4th you realise they are one of the youngest teams in the league with a good prospect pool. They should be getting better over the next 3 years not worse.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

NHL “Tale Of The Tape”: Where Do The Capitals Rank in Age, Height and Weight

Average Age:

1. EDM 25.5
2. MTL 25.6
5. WPG 25.8
7. VAN 26.1
12. OTT 26.6
13. TOR 26.8
14. CGY 26.8

*Van's average dropped from 26.3 to 26.1 with Demko replacing Nilsson, the rest of the team rosters are from OCT 11.

 

[FerrisRox]

Calgary
Winnipeg
Toronto
Montreal
Vancouver
Ottawa
Edmonton