OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: The Condemned of Altoona

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WheresRamziAbid

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Oct 31, 2013
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Can't compete every year, but you have to go for it sometime. If the pirates truly aren't making money the last few years they need to fire everyone in the front office... or sell the team because it's such a terrible investment that they can't turn a profit while spending peanuts when the team is good.

I mean there is a reason they usually rank in the low 20s in both revenue and payroll. I dont think its a far reach that they are making some money but not all that much. The reason they dont sell is easy. Is cool owning a baseball team and the valuation keeps going up and up and up. IF you merely break even your doing fine as a business perspective.

Now as far as what he SHOULD do yeah i agree i think they should be willing to take more financial risk. You just dont want to end up in another situation where you literally being forced by the MLB to trade salary because you're too far in debt (Aramis Ramirez).
 
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DJ Spinoza

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Aug 7, 2003
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Keller is going to AAA. Still no word on Kuhl, but I wonder if Kingham will be coming up. I have no idea who this guy that just got called up from AAA is, but I guess there is at least a spot available in the AAA rotation with Holmes called up anyways.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Apr 13, 2010
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Lost series to Mets. Theyre done. Might be a good thing going forward. Sellers at deadline. Should be able to get good returns from Cervelli, Harrison, and Dickerson. Guys who were going to be replaced anyways.

Its time NH stops getting ripped off in trades tho. Needs to take advantage of a desperate team and get a great return.

Team still has some talent...we all know why things fell apart. Eventually spiraling out of control(should be in first place, and not an exaggeration).

2019 could be the start of another 2-3 years of playoffs if this deadline is handled right
 

Bryan Rust

Bryan Rust is my waifu
Mar 3, 2018
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Why use the closer when down by 2 and not use him hmmm I don't know maybe in an extra innings game or something.
#HurdleKnows
#Hurdle2020
 

DJ Spinoza

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Good to get a series win. There's not a lot else going well, and it's somewhat of a fool's game to hope that being a seller at the deadline will mean much (we may still sell, and maybe should with some players, but we don't have the assets to trade for what we need, which is front line pitching). Just have to keep going and see if we can turn up for a decent 20 game stretch or so.

Nobody in the NL is really doing anything that sets them too far apart. There are injuries to key players everywhere, underperforming, and it seems like at least relative parity throughout the whole league. I think it's unlikely any one team will be able to pull too much further away than this, but we'll see for sure over the next little while, maybe a couple weeks after the break.

We're definitely well out of it, but there's a big difference to being four or five games below .500 and ten or eleven. I'm in no way convinced that the bleeding will stop, but maybe we can take a couple series and make things somewhat interesting at least. A return to a good showing from Musgrove in his next start would be a big boost of confidence.
 

Winger for Hire

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Dec 9, 2013
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Well, Keller is on track for a 2019 debut so if the Pirates can somehow find a 1/2 starter (I would love for them to make a push for Corbin in the offseason; I think Searage might be able to help him find his lost velocity, I think that's right up his alley), the team lets Musgrove unleash his swing and miss potential (and he pitches to his FIP), I can find myself being cautiously optimistic about the pitching staff.

I would also think it would allow the bullpen to really do something effective with Glasnow being a poor man's Hader and the loser of the #5 spot being another long man/piggyback reliever with Brault. This would also depend on Hurdle either being canned (hahahahaha) or a major shift in his pitcher usage thinking.

Taillon
Corbin (wishful)
Musgrove
Nova (if still around, he's pitched well since coming off the DL)
Williams/Kuhl/Kingham/Keller (midseason)

Glasnow
Kuhl/Williams
Crick
Santana
Rodriguez
Brault
Vazquez

I think they can certainly work with that if they get creative.

Let Newman come up and get his feet wet as Mercer's replacement and Kramer the same for Harrison. Sign one of Atlanta's catchers (Flowers, Suzuki) to pair with Diaz. I could see some bright spots in the lineup as well, and would be even brighter if Bell finishes the season finding his power stroke.

Newman
Meadows
Marte
Moran
Bell
Dickerson/Polanco
Kramer
Diaz/Flowers

There's some teeth in the middle, Newman and Meadows get on base and have some wheels, Kramer gives you some sneaky power towards the bottom. I can see some nice upside to something like this, thought there's also some risk. There's also the fact that this depends on them moving Harrison. IMO he just kills the lineup. He doesn't really fit anywhere he normally hits and is more of a 7/8 guy who hits in the top 3rd of the lineup. It also depends on the team allowing their farm to replace Mercer and not dumpster diving for a veteran "starter" like Alexi Amarista or Adeiny Hechavarria.

I'm not holding out much hope for the rest of the season, but looking forward I can see some light at the end of the tunnel.
 
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DJ Spinoza

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I'm most pessimistic about Bell. He still looks like he'll be a solid player, but I just don't see the impact, and we could really use impact at that position. We'll see, maybe a power surge will come, but the whole lineup has basically fallen off a cliff with power.

I think Polanco has looked much better since making the adjustments at the plate. Mainly, this has meant less of him getting under balls and/or fouling them off, with some falling for hits.

The young player I want to see ASAP the most is probably Newman. He's hitting like crazy, although not for a lot of power. But if he can field the position well, then maybe he returns to the under the radar talent that so many people liked a while ago. I can see the rationale in continuing to get him regular at-bats, but we need to do some housecleaning. DFA Sean Rod and that already opens up a utility spot. I wonder if the first shoe to drop in terms of trades might be Harrison. He won't garner a ton, but it's probably the final symbolic nail in moving on from the last era, and it would open up many more at-bats for Newman / Kang.

Nova might actually be the strongest trade chip we have, if he keeps pitching this well. Even relapsing somewhat, he's great value for a team that needs innings down the stretch. If we fall a little bit further out of the race, then I'd like to see us aggressively shop him so that Kingham can get an even longer look, and maybe some starts even open up for Glasnow. But assuming we bounce back a little bit here and are nominally hanging around (7 or so games out), I'm not sure what the best route forward is. There's no sense just moving guys, but some of it might come down to basically attempting to add by opening up spots for some younger players, which has the added benefit of continuing to build for the next couple years.
 

DJ Spinoza

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I'm bracing myself for bad news about Kuhl. Forearm injuries where nothing is said for a few days seem to often result in some kind of season ending stuff.

Also, rumor is that Moroff is with the team in San Diego. Wonder if this will mean that new random pitcher goes back to AAA, Kuhl to DL, and Moroff to be the utility IF while Rodriguez is hurt.
 

Winger for Hire

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Dec 9, 2013
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Well, the Pirates currently have no backup MI, so Moroff makes sense.

Forearm injuries make me cringe just as much as shoulder injures, so I'm not expecting anything optimistic on Kuhl's front.
 

DanielPlainview

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Apr 28, 2009
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If it's bad for Kuhl and he loses velocity, that would be pretty devastating for him. He's not a command guy. Without that 96-99, sometimes 100mph, FB...I mean, if it's bad and he comes back throwing like 94 max, I think his days as a rotation guy would be done.
 

DJ Spinoza

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Aug 7, 2003
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Polanco bunted to get a hit against the shift. Over/under on how many times Bob Walk will talk about it the rest of the season? I'll guess at least three more times tonight, and at least ten in the next several weeks.
 

DJ Spinoza

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Aug 7, 2003
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Yeah it throws me for a bit of a loop every time I see them.

I think I've had all hope for an unlikely "hang around, who knows what will happen" kind of season sapped from my spirit, but I want us to stomp the Padres this weekend if for no other reason than they were basically the team against which we started the collapse.
 

DJ Spinoza

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Aug 7, 2003
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So far, not a single Pirates thing has really happened in this game, outside of maybe Polanco trying to stretch his hit into a triple and sliding about three feet too early.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

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Apr 13, 2010
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Good to get a series win. There's not a lot else going well, and it's somewhat of a fool's game to hope that being a seller at the deadline will mean much (we may still sell, and maybe should with some players, but we don't have the assets to trade for what we need, which is front line pitching). Just have to keep going and see if we can turn up for a decent 20 game stretch or so.

Nobody in the NL is really doing anything that sets them too far apart. There are injuries to key players everywhere, underperforming, and it seems like at least relative parity throughout the whole league. I think it's unlikely any one team will be able to pull too much further away than this, but we'll see for sure over the next little while, maybe a couple weeks after the break.

We're definitely well out of it, but there's a big difference to being four or five games below .500 and ten or eleven. I'm in no way convinced that the bleeding will stop, but maybe we can take a couple series and make things somewhat interesting at least. A return to a good showing from Musgrove in his next start would be a big boost of confidence.

Thats the worst thing about this stretch, they could easily be near the top of the NL if they just played .500 ball during it. No team really stands out. This could have been a year they could have gotten into the playoffs...and you never know from there.
 

DJ Spinoza

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Aug 7, 2003
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Yeah, it's definitely a shame. Even if the collapse was just shortened some, we'd still have much more of a fighting chance. I still think there's enough parity and uncertainty around the NL that anything can happen, but we'll need a pristine stretch of games and in relatively short order. Still a ton of baseball left, I just don't think we can put up that kind of 10 or 15 game dominant run (not winning streak necessarily, but winning every series with some sweeps tossed in).

Moran is once again out of the lineup for Freese vs a lefty, despite Freese not looking good at all last night. I guess showcasing him for some kind of trade makes sense. That's a bench spot that I'd much rather see go to Osuna or Moroff permanently.

Keller got completely rocked in his AAA debut tonight.
 

DanielPlainview

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Learning experience for Keller there. Doubt we see that again.

Unfortunately, stranding men on third with minimal outs is something we see all too often as Pirates fans.
 

DJ Spinoza

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Aug 7, 2003
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Yeah, talk about a disappointing ending. I have no idea how they are trying convoluted claims to defend Cora and Polanco. I guess part of it is a split second decision to either be in a position to go if it's dropped or be tagging, but it comes down to whether or not you can recognize the ball is foul. I've never been on third base on a professional baseball field, so who knows, but I'm skeptical of the excuse.

In any case, it's great to see both Meadows and Polanco getting hits off one of the best lefties in baseball in Brad Hand. I still hope we win the series, but the bottom line has become a lot more meaningless since we just can't string together even four or five games. Better to keep avoiding false hope.

With Sonny Gray struggling, I wonder if the Yankees could be a destination for Nova. I don't think he makes them significantly better, but one of their needs is definitely a dependable starter, and he's at minimum that, and looking significantly better of late. I'd assume Cashman will probably try and wait out the Mets, since he definitely has the firepower to just get DeGrom, and also that Happ will be a primary target, but given the history, that seems like one of the more realistic trade options.
 
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