OT: Raise the Jolly Roger: Tanking underway

Status
Not open for further replies.

DJ Spinoza

Registered User
Aug 7, 2003
25,354
3,874
I'm wary of drawing any hard and fast conclusions with so little information, but to me the idea that a "spokesperson for the prosecutor" is asserting that he smelled of alcohol, but that nevertheless no test was done due to a "procedural error" is really hard to sort out and pretty thin. (See Mackey's tweets, I'm not linking him because he annoys me).

Obviously I/maybe we are biased, but to me it looks shadier if the news ends up being that there was a test taken that somehow got ruled inadmissible into court. It actually sounds like no test was taken on the scene, or presumably afterwards.

People feel very passionately about this issue for obvious reasons, and it's not something to make light of. But based on evidence and reaching conclusions, things don't add up here. It's speculative, but feasible that he would have been drinking given the time this occurred. However, the initial reports about the motorcycle not having headlights, being on the wrong side of the road, etc., have now fallen out of sight too. I just have trouble seeing how all the elements add up and I'm not willing to railroad the guy without evidence. For me it's a lot different of a situation than the common but I guess less widely accepted situation in sports of domestic violence, which the Pirates have their own issues with in terms of Bae.

I imagine due to how passionate this issue becomes, people will already have made up their mind, but absent a big shift in available information, I'm not going to make a judgment. And I think in terms of pure cynicism, there's no way the Pirates would cut him or anything along those lines, as someone else would pick him up tomorrow. None of this, obviously, says anything about whether this will be a hugely inhibiting problem for Cruz, who already may have had trouble reaching his ceiling anyways. I guess we'll see.
 

DJ Spinoza

Registered User
Aug 7, 2003
25,354
3,874
Keller is really struggling tonight, not great to see in his last start. If he can battle for 5 IP, it will be a small victory, but he's really all over the place so far. It seems like half the time the pitches aren't even close. I'm chalking it up to a bad start, but not the way to go out. I'd honestly just consider pulling the plug here after the third inning. He's throwing a ton of pitches and there's no reason to salvage anything. It's a bad start regardless of what happens – he just doesn't have his stuff anywhere near dialed in tonight.
 

DJ Spinoza

Registered User
Aug 7, 2003
25,354
3,874
What a weird game – absurd walk rate for Keller but I guess to his credit he gutted through 5 innings without consistent feel for his stuff. Honestly, watching I was terrified we'd see some vague injury. Polanco continues to crush the ball when he makes contact. Without trying to provoke a debate again, I'll eat some crow if he's not returned to decent consistency by next June.

Hopefully the bullpen gives up a lead and we get one down tonight. Rangers have a thin lead early in their game, so we could clinch the top pick tonight I think (if the tiebreaker is last year's record, we just need 2 games).
 

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
18,867
7,903
Oblivion Express
Nutting directed the team to start winning. Less money spent at #2. Plus he can force Cherington to take some long odds guy and low ball the shit out of him.

And apparently O'neill Cruz killed 3 people, while possibly drunk, and seemingly isn't going to jail?

I have no clue anymore.
 

JimmyTwoTimes

Registered User
Apr 13, 2010
19,958
5,281
Massive collapse as Houston just took the lead in the 8th.

If we tie w/ Texas who has the #1? Obviously if we lose out it doesn't matter what the Rags do.

We do. We had the worse record last year.

And if Stros win tonight this means they clinch a playoff spot finally. So that might impact the rest of series. At least one win for the Rangers.

And now the Indians are tied for first, could win division so should be tough for us to win after tonight.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ImporterExporter

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
18,867
7,903
Oblivion Express
Yep, one more loss for us and it's:

tenor.gif
 
  • Like
Reactions: JimmyTwoTimes

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
18,867
7,903
Oblivion Express
Peak Rocker is literally unhittable. Heavy FB with big time spin. I don't care that some guys throw a few MPH harder. Most of those guys don't have the movement which often renders speed pointless at the MLB level. Curve is great. Slider is ELITE. I could watch his 2019 tape over and over and over. He's got the mentality/attitude, body, and finally an elite track record in big games. IMO, the best P prospects since Strasburg, provided 2021 doesn't see him fall on his face.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JimmyTwoTimes

DJ Spinoza

Registered User
Aug 7, 2003
25,354
3,874
Well, let's now hope there's no BS from Manfred for sure. I can't imagine there will be, given the report from Passan, but we'll see. Given how much BS we had to sit through this year, it's pretty lucky to have our pick of the best talent. While I'm intrigued and somewhat torn by Hill, on the basis of minimal reading and clips, I'm Team Rocker until someone steps up to challenge for the mantle.

Weirdly, I wonder if the shortened season this year might ultimately be a blessing in disguise in terms of coveting college pitching, because it means a little less stress on their arms. Leiter and especially Hill need the possible showcases, but as long as 2021 is somewhat normal, the 2020 season not happening isn't that big of a deal. Hill is more and more intriguing, to see the explosive fastball, solid change, and slider, such that I'll happily pivot in the right scenario, but Rocker is just too damn exciting not to hope for, on top of the performance to date which seems to give him the clear edge at the moment.
 

DJ Spinoza

Registered User
Aug 7, 2003
25,354
3,874
just saw keller’s line last night wtf

It was a bad outing, but weird in that for some ABs and one inning, he was really dialed in and burying sliders that had lefties really struggling, but then for large swaths of the game, he was missing pretty badly. I'm not extremely worried, just seemed like he couldn't dial anything in consistently.

Obviously it would have been better for Keller to have a full, injury-free season and really get a group of games under his belt, but based on the little bit that we did end up seeing, I'm not too concerned about him. The biggest question with him is pretty similar to Kuhl, I think, and somewhat ironic given what used to be the case with Pirates pitching: can they consistently locate the fastball for good strikes?

Against the Cardinals, Keller was totally dominant with his fastball, and the fastball velocity and life is the biggest key to his ceiling, IMO. It's where people who don't like him see a weakness in his game because they say it doesn't miss bats. He was throwing it by guys left and right in the Cards game, and even last night, there were times where he just churned it right into the heart of the zone for swinging strikes against Ramirez or Lindor (I forget). It could have been luck last night, and I'd like to know some stuff about where his spin rates and movement were, but for someone making a few starts after injury, we saw a healthy pitcher whose velocity had come back.

Still lots of questions about him going into 2021, but some of the bloggers like Rumbunter are running with these wildly decontextualized peripherals based on 5 games played. It seems like there's an increasing trend as "advanced" stats become more mainstream to just sort Fangraphs for certain details and then immediately make claims. The FIP thing with Keller last year and this year (his FIP reads horribly) is a case in point. This stat isn't a very good one and certainly isn't going to tell you much about his very abbreviated season. If ever there was a time for the eye test...
 

DJ Spinoza

Registered User
Aug 7, 2003
25,354
3,874
When/If they pick Rocker, I hope they take a fairly agressive, but not reckless, approach with his assignments.

Yeah, this is not the best thing to base an opinion on but his potential readiness remains one of the details about him that still has me have him #1 on my list for now. Although Hill has the frame and maybe even some intrinsic advantage since there's scant tape of him, you figure with him being relatively new to full time baseball, a more cautious approach will be in order.

I think it's completely feasible that he could take a faster path to MLB than Cole. Probably not good to get hopes up, given inevitable contract manipulation, but it seems possible that he could be in the mix to make the team out of spring training in 2023, and really depending on if he can get some minors games in 2021, potentially be pressing the issue by late summer in 2022. If you figure he's in high-A to start 2022 and ascends to AA early in the year, it could be possible, but I guess April 2023 is probably the most aggressive yet feasible guess. I was thinking for a while that he could be in the 2022 mid-season mix, but I think it's because I was doing the mental math while forgetting that he won't be drafted til July 2021.
 

ChaosAgent

Registered User
May 8, 2018
17,903
12,202
Yeah, this is not the best thing to base an opinion on but his potential readiness remains one of the details about him that still has me have him #1 on my list for now. Although Hill has the frame and maybe even some intrinsic advantage since there's scant tape of him, you figure with him being relatively new to full time baseball, a more cautious approach will be in order.

I think it's completely feasible that he could take a faster path to MLB than Cole. Probably not good to get hopes up, given inevitable contract manipulation, but it seems possible that he could be in the mix to make the team out of spring training in 2023, and really depending on if he can get some minors games in 2021, potentially be pressing the issue by late summer in 2022. If you figure he's in high-A to start 2022 and ascends to AA early in the year, it could be possible, but I guess April 2023 is probably the most aggressive yet feasible guess. I was thinking for a while that he could be in the 2022 mid-season mix, but I think it's because I was doing the mental math while forgetting that he won't be drafted til July 2021.

I just don't know what the minors infrastructure is going to look like moving forward. It's highly possible the the MILB is a fraction of itself next year - COVID or not.

You're going to see guys fast-tracked. Like a Gonzales for instance.

Also, for pitchers like...given that their arms are ticking time bombs anyway I don't mind "rushing" them if needed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad