Race for the Calder - Part II

[P10p]

Resorting to weak ad-hominem attacks? That's classy.

You seem pretty set in your opinion, so I'll stop trying to reason with you.

Not worth the effort.

The effort was pretty poor to begin with, tried trolling and got caught in your lies right away. I'd leave too...

 

[MuckOG]

Why would you play one of your best offensive players with 4th liners? If it wasn't for the injuries, Dowling, Gardner and Kero would be on the taxi squad or AHL all season long. Why would Bowness waste Robertson's skill on a line with those guys? He plays in the top six because that is where his talents can be most utilized, not with the 4th line players.

You wouldn't. But there are usually 4 lines on a hockey team. It just so happens that the majority of scoring comes from their top line.

 

[sgt Hartman]

There are definitely times where the winner ends up having a worse career than the guys behind him. Some examples:

Jeff Skinner (vs Logan Couture... a little debatable?)
Tyler Myers (vs John Tavares... who finished 5th in voting. Crazy.)
Andrew Raycroft (vs Michael Ryder)
Barret Jackman (vs Henrik Zetterburg)
Chris Drury (vs Marion Hossa)
Sergei Samsonov (vs Patrik Elias)
Sergei Makarov (vs Mike Modano, Jeremy Roenick and Rod Brind'Amour... but that was a strange circumstance)

I stopped there because the rest of the names since the trophy were created were very good players, but maybe there's some debatable ones among them.

Ovechkin (vs Crosby), obviously

 

[serp]

Because theres more to hockey than stacking one line, check Minnesota and Dallas' record for clear examples. One lineup spreads the wealth and one stacks their top line sacrificing depth...

The Stars are missing two of their best and highest paid forwards and another top 9 forward. There isn't much wealth around to spread . I'm sorry but mighty Kaprizov also wouldn't magically make a 30 year old who has a career high of 29 games played in a season , a 28 year old who hadn't played an NHL game for 3-4 years prior to this season and a defenseman playing 4th line winger become offensive threats. Best option is just to put them together and assume that 4th line is never going to score .

 

[Unspecified]

If that's the case, why doesn't Robertson play more with players other than Hintz/Pavelski/Benn and spread out the scoring?

You put your best players together no? Who outside of Hintz, Gurianov, Pavelski and Benn who do you want him to play with? Everyone else is having a shit year and those who are not just suck. Burying your rookie in the 3rd and 4th line to get those scrubs scoring takes away from what he offers to those who can play hockey. I really hope none of ya'll ever take up coaching.

 

[M88K]

You put your best players together no? Especially when most outside of Hintz, Gurianov, Pavelski and Benn who do you want him to play with? Everyone else is having a shit year and those who are not just suck.

Except Benn and gurianov are also quite shitty players too. They just happen to be a hot 5 or so game run currently they'll slip back into useless territory shortly

 

[MuckOG]

You put your best players together no? Who outside of Hintz, Gurianov, Pavelski and Benn who do you want him to play with? Everyone else is having a shit year and those who are not just suck. Buying your rookie in the 3rd and 4th line to get those scrubs scoring takes away from what he offers to those who can play hockey. I really hope none of ya'll ever take up coaching.

The Wild separate their 2 best players (Fiala and Kaprizov). The only time they see the ice together is on the PP.

 

[Dr Pepper]

The effort was pretty poor to begin with, tried trolling and got caught in your lies right away. I'd leave too...

Didn't say I was leaving.....and I definitely didn't lie.

Just said I'm through trying to reason with you if all you can resort to is childish namecalling. That's all.

 

[Unspecified]

Except Benn and gurianov are also quite shitty players too. They just happen to be a hot 5 or so game run currently.

Guri is having a down season for sure, Benn outside of the last 2 weeks has had no heart the past 2 seasons.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Guri is having a down season for sure, Benn outside of the last 2 weeks has had no heart the past 2 seasons.

I thought for sure Gurianov would build on his performance from last year's playoffs, but it's definitely been an underwhelming season. Hope he finishes strong at least.

 

[Unspecified]

The Wild separate their 2 best players (Fiala and Kaprizov). The only time they see the ice together is on the PP.

This is what we got, 3 players (forwards) that are having a NHL quality season. You don't sprinkle that through the lineup you ride it, that is what Dallas is doing. Oh so you are saying Kaprizov is playing with Fiala on the PP? Kaprizov has 8 goals and 3 assists on the PP, i guess he is riding Fiala's coat tail then? I mean if by your mindset of Robertson leeching off Hintz and 37 year old Pavelski then Kaprizov would be doing the same on the PP with Fiala.

 

[Ogi1Kenobi]

You wouldn't. But there are usually 4 lines on a hockey team. It just so happens that the majority of scoring comes from their top line.

Of course it does. Dallas is a one line team, lol. They lost their two best offensive players (Seguin and Radulov), and Robertson, Hintz (when he is playing) and Pavelski have been carrying the offensive load all season. Benn and Gurianov started to provide some secondary scoring during this playoff push, but they have been inconsistent all season long.

 

[P10p]

Didn't say I was leaving.....and I definitely didn't lie.

Just said I'm through trying to reason with you if all you can resort to is childish namecalling. That's all.

Me: Stars are top heavy

You: No they're not

Me: Here is some stats supporting my argument

You: You stated that Robertson rides his teammates coat tails.

Me: No I said they're top heavy which I showed...

You: THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASONING WITH YOU IM OUT

......

 

[Unspecified]

Me: Stars are top heavy

You: No they're not

Me: Here is some stats supporting my argument

You: You stated that Robertson rides his teammates coat tails.

Me: No I said they're top heavy which I showed...

You: THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASONING WITH YOU IM OUT

......

Top heavy? HAHAHAHA, Hintz, Pavelski and Robertson are 1/4 of our forward lines and we are "top heavy." GTFO bro.

 

[MuckOG]

I think someone doesn't understand what "top heavy" means.

 

[M88K]

I think you guys are taking that top heavy comment wrong.
It's not inaccurate, with our current injuries.

If we need a goal throwing on the scrub line (Kero,Dowling,Pysyk) isn't going to do much.
Throwing out the super scrub line
(Crapliano-Faksa-Comeau) is just going to cycle the puck and put nothing on net.
The meh line(Benn and Gurianov), the last few games withstanding, is going to turnover the puck in neutral ice or be hemmed in the defensive zone for most of the shift.

The only line that is a threat to score regularly is the robertson line.

He's probably the biggest reason why, he's the only actually playmaker we've got in the lineup and the best since we breifly had zuccarello. But is not disingenuous to say we're top heavy. We're missing our best center and our best rw in radulov.

 

[Elysian]

At least this thread isn't boring.

 

[Nino Noderreiter]

Of course it does. Dallas is a one line team, lol. They lost their two best offensive players (Seguin and Radulov), and Robertson, Hintz (when he is playing) and Pavelski have been carrying the offensive load all season. Benn and Gurianov started to provide some secondary scoring during this playoff push, but they have been inconsistent all season long.

I guess the difference is the Stars might be a 1-line team, but the Wild are a 1 player team (with some help from 1 other player on a different line). Kaprizov plays with a decent middle 6 winger in Zuccarrello and an AHL caliber C. Fiala plays with two 4th line caliber players.

 

[MrHeiskanen]

No, I explained my reasoning in a second post. Robertson enjoys the top heavy nature of Dallas and thrives there. Thats not to take away from the dynamic player he truly is, but you also have to recognize that Hintz(when hes playing)/Benn(when Hintz is out) and Pavelski form a much better line than Rask/Zuccarello, for as good as Zuc has been.

I donno, I don't see Dallas as being top heavy at all.

Dallas was top heavy when Seguin, Benn were dominant players, top 20 players, in the league and had guys like Spezza, Sharp around them.

Now, Dallas doesn't have any top end players at all. Like, where would our top forward rank league wide?

 

[M88K]

I donno, I don't see Dallas as being top heavy at all.

Dallas was top heavy when Seguin, Benn were dominant players, top 20 players, in the league and had guys like Spezza, Sharp around them.

Now, Dallas doesn't have any top end players at all. Like, where would our top forward rank league wide?

He didn't mean as 1 superstar pulling a bus of mediocrity to relevence like Seguin and benn used to do.
He meant that what little talent we have is playing together.

3 of our 5 best players right now play in the same line. The other 2 are defensemen on separate pairs. But that's what he means.
We don't have
Robertson playing with dowling and kero (though as much as they like to try and say so, Kaprizov doesn't play with anyone that bad either)
Hintz with cogliano and pysyk
And pavs with dickinson
To spread those 3 out.

He's trying to spin it as if the reason kaprizov and fiala don't play together with zucc is because the wild intentionally spread out the talent instead of limitation based on the positions that they are comfortable playing

 

[MrHeiskanen]

Maybe they don't play together because they are all wingers?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I guess the difference is the Stars might be a 1-line team, but the Wild are a 1 player team (with some help from 1 other player on a different line). Kaprizov plays with a decent middle 6 winger in Zuccarrello and an AHL caliber C. Fiala plays with two 4th line caliber players.

Not exactly.

 

[Unspecified]

I think someone doesn't understand what "top heavy" means.

Seems like someone doesn't understand basic line combinations based off of need. A 36 year old, a rookie and a not 100% player is hardly "top heavy". Do better next time.

 

[ThatGuy22]

He didn't mean as 1 superstar pulling a bus of mediocrity to relevence like Seguin and benn used to do.
He meant that what little talent we have is playing together.

3 of our 5 best players right now play in the same line. The other 2 are defensemen on separate pairs. But that's what he means.
We don't have
Robertson playing with dowling and kero (though as much as they like to try and say so, Kaprizov doesn't play with anyone that bad either)
Hintz with cogliano and pysyk
And pavs with dickinson
To spread those 3 out.

He's trying to spin it as if the reason kaprizov and fiala don't play together with zucc is because the wild intentionally spread out the talent instead of limitation based on the positions that they are comfortable playing

It is intentional. The only RW on the team is Ryan Hartman, who is playing C.(well and Bjugstad but he's been hurt and is terrible). We have LWs playing RW all down the roster.

They have Ek/Foligno/Greenway take on the opposing team top line because they are rediculously tough to play against and score at a good clip, and then Fiala and Kaprizov on separate lines because they can create out of thin air with bottom 6ers as linemates (Zuccerello is a legit top 6 forward, but Raskbis a boat anchor).

 

[P10p]

I donno, I don't see Dallas as being top heavy at all.

Dallas was top heavy when Seguin, Benn were dominant players, top 20 players, in the league and had guys like Spezza, Sharp around them.

Now, Dallas doesn't have any top end players at all. Like, where would our top forward rank league wide?

Very true I would't say top heavy league, wide. More so objectively, in that, most of their points come from their top line relative to other teams.