Race for the Calder - Part II

[MuckOG]

That is because that is not that big of a deciding factor, penalties drawn is a stupid argument and .09 is not a big difference. What is a big difference is the 5 on 5 stats, try to keep up. 5 on 5 stats is pretty glaring and Robertson is leading by a New York Mile, leading in assists and will likely over take in points.

My bet is if Robertson was leading so dramatically in penalties drawn, it would no longer by a "stupid argument". This is not a stupid argument, btw, it means that the opponents are forced to cheat, slash, or grab him to prevent another scoring opportunity....and this may also add some context to the 5v5 discrepancy.....because players are forced to penalize Kaprizov in order to stop him from scoring 5v5, it ends up creating more PP opportunities for him than Robertson.

And you also are completely ignoring the fact that Robertson plays with a legit center in Hintz, whereas Kaprizov has to drag around the carcass that is Victor Rask. Put Hintz (or any legit 1C or 2C) alongside Kaprizov and his numbers would jump dramatically.

My original point stands....assists are great, but electrifying goal scoring will count more in the eyes of the voters. Put together two highlight reels of every scoring play that Kaprizov and Robertson were part of and get back to me with which player will bring you out of your seat more. THAT will be the player that wins the Calder.

I do like Robertson as a player, though.

 

[Chrisinroch]

I see a lot of “it’s close” and “Robertson has a shot” and “Robertson should get some votes but”

Does anyone think Robertson should win if the season ended today? I’m genuinely curious

 

[Nikki Potnick]

I see a lot of “it’s close” and “Robertson has a shot” and “Robertson should get some votes but”

Does anyone think Robertson should win if the season ended today? I’m genuinely curious

Yes.

Besides goals (which do account for a lot), why else should Kaprisov win? Genuinely curious.

edit: Don't bother answering. I see you're a Wild fan posting more than anyone in the Calder race thread, since it was started. No one is changing your mind, it doesn't matter if they have 100% undeniable proof.

 

[Rob Brown]

Yes.

Besides goals (which do account for a lot), why else should Kaprisov win? Genuinely curious.

edit: Don't bother answering. I see you're a Wild fan posting more than anyone in the Calder race thread, since it was started. No one is changing your mind, it doesn't matter if they have 100% undeniable proof.

I don't see the purpose of calling him out for being a Wild fan as if Stars fans aren't favouring their own guy as well. You're all doing the same thing.

The gap has tightened significantly, but if you look at any neutral articles Kaprizov is still considered the favourite. That could change this week or next. But worth adding that the Stars writer on The Athletic voted Kaprizov as of now as well.

 

[Nikki Potnick]

I don't see the purpose of calling him out for being a Wild fan as if Stars fans aren't favouring their own guy as well. You're all doing the same thing.

Take one look at his history and you'd understand. He's anointed Kaprisov Calder winner for months, spent hours arguing with people how he deserves to win and is a Wild fan. Nothing can change his mind at this point, nothing. That's basic human psychology.

I can look at this more objectively (so therefore I can call him out for being a biased fan), if Kaprisov gets 25 goals, he's going to win it. No doubt, doesn't matter if Robertson hits a PPG.

I ask this to him @Chrisinroch , how can Robertson win the Calder at this point?

 

[Rob Brown]

Take one look at his history and you'd understand. He's anointed Kaprisov Calder winner for months, spent hours arguing with people how he deserves to win and is a Wild fan. Nothing can change his mind at this point, nothing. That's basic human psychology.

I can however, if Kaprisov gets 25 goals, he's going to win it. No doubt, doesn't matter if Robertson hits a PPG.

I ask this to him @Chrisinroch , how can Robertson win the Calder at this point?

To be fair though, Kaprizov was looking like the winner for months. Only recently has Robertson really turned it on and become a realistic option, and even then it's not like Kaprizov has started to suck - he's gotten better if anything. So it makes sense for Wild fans (and many neutral fans and writers) to think that Kaprizov will still win. If Kaprizov slows down and Robertson keeps it up I'm sure he'll win.

But yeah, Kaprizov is on pace for 38 goal season so I'd imagine he'll get over 25 goals by the time the season is done.

 

[serp]

I think there's a chance Kaprizov gets some more rest down the stretch if the Wild get locked into a Seed . Stars clearly can't afford to rest one of their most important guys.

 

[Nikki Potnick]

To be fair though, Kaprizov was looking like the winner for months. Only recently has Robertson really turned it on and become a realistic option, and even then it's not like Kaprizov has started to suck - he's gotten better if anything. So it makes sense for Wild fans (and many neutral fans and writers) to think that Kaprizov will still win. If Kaprizov slows down and Robertson keeps it up I'm sure he'll win.

If you'd listen to yourself, you'd realize you're no longer arguing what I said . He's so biased that he can't even entertain anything beyond what he's been arguing for months, even after the circumstances have changed.

I never said Kaprisov started to suck. What random thing to even mention... Nothing wrong with thinking Kaprisov should win. Did you read what I replied to? He arrogantly asked if anyone thought Robertson would win. Uh yea, there are people who think he should win and can use stats to back that claim (beyond just goals scored).

And yes, hypothetically, if Robertson finishes a PPG, and Kaprisov doesn't get another goal, Robertson should 100% win. Let's see if @Chrisinroch will admit that? I bet not. Which goes back to him being a biased fan (much more than me, which is why I called him out, deservingly so).

 

[Rob Brown]

If you'd listen to yourself, you'd realize you're no longer arguing what I said . He's so biased that he can't even entertain anything beyond what he's been arguing for months, even after the circumstances have changed.

I never said Kaprisov started to suck. What random thing to even mention... Nothing wrong with thinking Kaprisov should win. Did you read what I replied to? He arrogantly asked if anyone thought Robertson would win. Uh yea, there are people who think he should win and can use stats to back that claim (beyond just goals scored).

And yes, hypothetically, if Robertson finishes a PPG, and Kaprisov doesn't get another goal, Robertson should 100% win. Let's see if @Chrisinroch will admit that? I bet not. Which goes back to him being a biased fan (much more than me, which is why I called him out, deservingly so).

Take a chill pill, man. Your posts come off incredibly confrontational.

My point is that Kaprizov has been the consensus winner all season, and even with Robertson playing quite well many people still have Kaprizov winning because he has kept up his pace. I never said that you said he has started to suck.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Just out of curiosity, before pulling for my guy (JRob) wondering if there is a history similar to the Heisman where the Calder winner does or doesn't turn out to be the better player long haul than the 2nd and 3rd place finishers? Stars and Wild Fans might start arguing the reverse than they argue now.

And, it does point out, whoever wins it, may not end up being the career winner. Or, there are no long term winners, both hopefully contribute to their respective teams for years to come. It's nice that two low scoring teams have found some offensive gems.

 

[Nikki Potnick]

Take a chill pill, man. Your posts come off incredibly confrontational.

My point is that Kaprizov has been the consensus winner all season, and even with Robertson playing quite well many people still have Kaprizov winning because he has kept up his pace. I never said that you said he has started to suck.

Haha, and that posters' didn't? You're coming at me for the same reason I went at him, only I'm right...

Your point/post was clear, I'm biased and shouldn't be able to call out people who are more ridiculously bias.

 

[MuckOG]

Just out of curiosity, before pulling for my guy (JRob) wondering if there is a history similar to the Heisman where the Calder winner does or doesn't turn out to be the better player long haul than the 2nd and 3rd place finishers? Stars and Wild Fans might start arguing the reverse than they argue now.

And, it does point out, whoever wins it, may not end up being the career winner. Or, there are no long term winners, both hopefully contribute to their respective teams for years to come. It's nice that two low scoring teams have found some offensive gems.

The most recent example I can think of is 2015 when Ekblad won over Stone, Gaudreau and Forsberg. Some might argue that Ekblad is the better player "long haul" but I would probably disagree.

 

[BagHead]

Just out of curiosity, before pulling for my guy (JRob) wondering if there is a history similar to the Heisman where the Calder winner does or doesn't turn out to be the better player long haul than the 2nd and 3rd place finishers? Stars and Wild Fans might start arguing the reverse than they argue now.

And, it does point out, whoever wins it, may not end up being the career winner. Or, there are no long term winners, both hopefully contribute to their respective teams for years to come. It's nice that two low scoring teams have found some offensive gems.

There are definitely times where the winner ends up having a worse career than the guys behind him. Some examples:

Jeff Skinner (vs Logan Couture... a little debatable?)
Tyler Myers (vs John Tavares... who finished 5th in voting. Crazy.)
Andrew Raycroft (vs Michael Ryder)
Barret Jackman (vs Henrik Zetterburg)
Chris Drury (vs Marion Hossa)
Sergei Samsonov (vs Patrik Elias)
Sergei Makarov (vs Mike Modano, Jeremy Roenick and Rod Brind'Amour... but that was a strange circumstance)

I stopped there because the rest of the names since the trophy were created were very good players, but maybe there's some debatable ones among them.

 

[Unspecified]

I don't see the purpose of calling him out for being a Wild fan as if Stars fans aren't favouring their own guy as well. You're all doing the same thing.

The gap has tightened significantly, but if you look at any neutral articles Kaprizov is still considered the favourite. That could change this week or next. But worth adding that the Stars writer on The Athletic voted Kaprizov as of now as well.

The only reason why he is still the favorite is what team they play for, ask me how i know this.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

I honestly had no idea Robertson was only 2 points behind KK and has played 4 less games. I truly assumed Kaprizov had run away with the Calder but there is a real good chance Robertson can win it.

Point totals are always a massive part of it when choosing award winners....And Robertson only has 5 points on the PP.... huge point total even strength. Robertson also leading all rookies in +/- with a +15...

I had absolutely no idea what JR was doing this year wow

Will be fun to watch how these guys finish off the year!

 

[Unspecified]

To be fair though, Kaprizov was looking like the winner for months. Only recently has Robertson really turned it on and become a realistic option, and even then it's not like Kaprizov has started to suck - he's gotten better if anything. So it makes sense for Wild fans (and many neutral fans and writers) to think that Kaprizov will still win. If Kaprizov slows down and Robertson keeps it up I'm sure he'll win.

But yeah, Kaprizov is on pace for 38 goal season so I'd imagine he'll get over 25 goals by the time the season is done.

Only recently? So i guess the last 2 months (33 games) is recent?

 

[ThatGuy22]

Take one look at his history and you'd understand. He's anointed Kaprisov Calder winner for months, spent hours arguing with people how he deserves to win and is a Wild fan. Nothing can change his mind at this point, nothing. That's basic human psychology.

I can look at this more objectively (so therefore I can call him out for being a biased fan), if Kaprisov gets 25 goals, he's going to win it. No doubt, doesn't matter if Robertson hits a PPG.

I ask this to him @Chrisinroch , how can Robertson win the Calder at this point?

Get his goal scoring numbers up. That's pretty much it. Pro rate to 82 game season, Kaprizov is pacing for near 40 goals, Robertson near 30.

In a regular season. If their point totals are close (even if Robertson over takes him in total points), few are going to vote for the 30 goal guy over 40 goal guy.

Especially with the antidotal evidence that sooo many of Kaprizov's goals are just ridiculous individual efforts.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Ah yes, analytics.

What goes into a "five on five game score", I wonder?

Honestly curious, never seen that metric used before.

Here is the breakdown.

The TL/DR version of it is it is meant to compare everything a player did in a game to determine who had the best game.

Measuring Single Game Productivity: An Introduction To Game Score

Tracked here Hockey Stat Cards

MacKinnon has the highest average GS at 1.97. Robertson comes in at 1.11, Kaprizov at .95

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Stars fans realize the semantics of the Calder.
Kaprizov gets the media attention (and rightfully so), he’s had the calder won since week 2 of the season. No matter if there is a guy who is doing things equally and in some cases more impressive than Kaprizov.
I’m one of Robertson’s biggest supporters out there, yet unless I see more media attention for what Robertson is doing; I know no matter what he does it’s Kaprizov’s to lose.

On Overdrive a few days ago (Toronto’s biggest daily sports show); they were talking about the Calder and poised the question “Is there anyone that can dethrone Kaprizov?” One of the media members who votes for the award replied “No, Stützle has been impressive though”.

If you’re just passively watching hockey (like many media members do) it can be easy to miss exactly what Robertson is doing.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Stars fans realize the semantics of the Calder.
Kaprizov gets the media attention (and rightfully so), he’s had the calder won since week 2 of the season. No matter if there is a guy who is doing things equally and in some cases more impressive than Kaprizov.
I’m one of Robertson’s biggest supporters out there, yet unless I see more media attention for what Robertson is doing; I know no matter what he does it’s Kaprizov’s to lose.

On Overdrive a few days ago (Toronto’s biggest daily sports show); they were talking about the Calder and poised the question “Is there anyone that can dethrone Kaprizov?” One of the media members who votes for the award replied “No, Stützle has been impressive though”.

If you’re just passively watching hockey (like many media members do) it can be easy to miss exactly what Robertson is doing.

Well, Hayes did bring up Robertson yesterday at least.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Stars fans realize the semantics of the Calder.
Kaprizov gets the media attention (and rightfully so), he’s had the calder won since week 2 of the season. No matter if there is a guy who is doing things equally and in some cases more impressive than Kaprizov.
I’m one of Robertson’s biggest supporters out there, yet unless I see more media attention for what Robertson is doing; I know no matter what he does it’s Kaprizov’s to lose.

On Overdrive a few days ago (Toronto’s biggest daily sports show); they were talking about the Calder and poised the question “Is there anyone that can dethrone Kaprizov?” One of the media members who votes for the award replied “No, Stützle has been impressive though”.

If you’re just passively watching hockey (like many media members do) it can be easy to miss exactly what Robertson is doing.

Certainly something there as well. Just search the @Nhl Twitter feed for Kaprizov and Robertson. Robertson comes back with 11 highlights/stories (3 of which are Nick), I stopped counting at 30 for Kaprizov.

Those highlights than get retweeted/liked ad nauseum re-enforcing the narrative. You can do that for any of the various NHL twitter accounts. Sportsnet (who hasn't shown a Wild game i'm sure) has like 17 of Kaprizov, and like 30+ of Robertson... but only 3 are Jason Robertson.

Division schedules are going to hurt Robertson outside of the Central for sure due to media coverage.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Certainly something there as well. Just search the @Nhl Twitter feed for Kaprizov and Robertson. Robertson comes back with 11 highlights/stories (3 of which are Nick), I stopped counting at 30 for Kaprizov.

Those highlights than get retweeted/liked ad nauseum re-enforcing the narrative. You can do that for any of the various NHL twitter accounts. Sportsnet has like 17 of Kaprizov, and like 30+ of Robertson... but only 3 are Jason Robertson.

Division schedules are going to hurt Robertson outside of the Central for sure due to media coverage.

Man, just wait until next season when Nick makes the Leafs' roster out of camp....if he's even half as good as his brother has been, the media here will be relentless.

 

[ElGuapo]

Randomly came across this... The Score Calder Power Rankings now has Robertson at #1.

Calder Trophy Power Rankings: Robertson charges to top of pack

 

[Chrisinroch]

Yes.

Besides goals (which do account for a lot), why else should Kaprisov win? Genuinely curious.

edit: Don't bother answering. I see you're a Wild fan posting more than anyone in the Calder race thread, since it was started. No one is changing your mind, it doesn't matter if they have 100% undeniable proof.

Touchy

 

[Unspecified]

Get his goal scoring numbers up. That's pretty much it. Pro rate to 82 game season, Kaprizov is pacing for near 40 goals, Robertson near 30.

In a regular season. If their point totals are close (even if Robertson over takes him in total points), few are going to vote for the 30 goal guy over 40 goal guy.

Especially with the antidotal evidence that sooo many of Kaprizov's goals are just ridiculous individual efforts.

If you prorated to 82 games then Robertson would have more points than Kaprizov. With the games missed so far this season the most games Robertson would play is 77 games with a projection of 72 points (25g 45a). Kaprizov who would be projected to play all 82 games would also finish with 72 points (38g 33a). One could assume based off Robertson's last 4 games he would score 6 or so more points in the remaining games up to 82 games played. Robertson would still lead in assists, points, +/- (it has some merit), GW goals, infinitely better 5 on 5 stats all while averaging 2 less minutes of ice time. Goals scored is just 1 piece of the equation, you need to look at the entire thing.