Quebec still in discussions.

[Fatass]

And yet...the owners don't want it to happen. Your dream is crushed.

As the league continues to bleed money we will see other owners not wanting to waste even more cash on keeping the Coyotes in Arizona. Move the team to Quebec and fix that wound.

 

[Bondurant]

As the league continues to bleed money we will see other owners not wanting to waste even more cash on keeping the Coyotes in Arizona. Move the team to Quebec and fix that wound.

Surely, the ownership knows a bit more about business and the health of the NHL than we do. I would love to see a Nordiques return but at some point the fact that the owners don't want to return there has to carry some weight. There is a number of franchises that could be moved with ease and 2 expansion opportunities and still nothing.

 

[MNNumbers]

I keep thinking about the current situation, and coming to the conclusion that it's a new world we are about to experience, and all the lessons we learned before COVID do not necessarily tell us much.

What we knew before was this:
BOG was very happy to expand to Vegas and to Seattle. Presumably because of the 1.15B in expansion fees they received for said expansion, along with what we assume will be increased US broadcast monies.

BOG respected the rabidness of the Quebec City market, but could not see advantage for themselves in going there. Chiefly because local money doesn't get shared, so it's not really a problem to the owners of Minnesota, Denver, Nashville and Pittsburgh (and everyone else of course) if Florida and Arizona are losing money or if Winnipeg makes money. That's a local issue.

The reason for no relocation was chiefly that there have always been owners who were willing to stay in the present markets, and try to grow the market, while accepting some losses along the way.

Now, however, we are going to have a new paradigm.
It will be perhaps 4-5 years before we could reasonably expect attendance and business spending to return to prior levels.

We don't know how the TV contract will respond to COVID. There are reasons to believe that this crisis is going to cost the NHL because the broadcasters won't be paying what they might have pre-COVID.

So, where is the money going to come from? And, what is going to happen going forward with the CBA? Presently, the limits on escrow in the CBA seem to suggest that the players will get much more than their 50% share for a few years here. That likely means owners losing money.

Does that mean that some markets will have no owner willing to continue to try to operate in them? We don't know. It might.

Does it mean that Quebec becomes more attractive? Maybe. But, on the other hand, Canada is likely to be more conservative in re-opening, and thus the local potential won't be able to be realized.

In short, it's difficult to guess what will happen, or even what is the best move financially.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Surely, the ownership knows a bit more about business and the health of the NHL than we do. I would love to see a Nordiques return but at some point the fact that the owners don't want to return there has to carry some weight. There is a number of franchises that could be moved with ease and 2 expansion opportunities and still nothing.

But surely ol Larry there is a business genius?????

 

[TheLegend]

As the league continues to bleed money we will see other owners not wanting to waste even more cash on keeping the Coyotes in Arizona. Move the team to Quebec and fix that wound.

Then make Alex Meruelo a deal he can’t refuse. Because he’s not the type of person who bails so easily.

All this continued pontificating about moving the Coyotes to Quebec City is getting to be trollish.

 

[Fatass]

Then make Alex Meruelo a deal he can’t refuse. Because he’s not the type of person who bails so easily.

All this continued pontificating about moving the Coyotes to Quebec City is getting to be trollish.

It’s the main board and this is my opinion: The league would be much healthier economically if the Coyotes moved to Quebec City.

 

[MNNumbers]

It’s the main board and this is my opinion: The league would be much healthier economically if the Coyotes moved to Quebec City.

How exactly would moving the Coyotes to Quebec make the league healthier financially?

Which monies?
How do they get to the league?

 

[TheLegend]

It’s the main board and this is my opinion: The league would be much healthier economically if the Coyotes moved to Quebec City.

*points to forum header*

You’re in the Business Of Hockey forum. Not the main board.

Meaning you need to bring something more to the discussion than just waving pom poms around and chanting the same thing over and over.

 

[Stumbledore]

Meaning you need to bring something more to the discussion than just waving pom poms around and chanting the same thing over and over.

Pot? Meet kettle.

We could make a drinking game out of how many times you've dissed someone's opinion by suggesting that they should buy the Coyotes.

 

[TheLegend]

Pot? Meet kettle.

We could make a drinking game out of how many times you've dissed someone's opinion by suggesting that they should buy the Coyotes.

Only after they kept repeating the same thing over and over with very little substance behind it.

Go back and check if you’d like.

I’m not a drinking person myself.

 

[Major4Boarding]

I’m still in the “Ottawa Senators arena situation needs to sort itself out before Quebec City is an expansion option” camp.

 

[mouser]

As the league continues to bleed money we will see other owners not wanting to waste even more cash on keeping the Coyotes in Arizona. Move the team to Quebec and fix that wound.

I don’t think you understand how Revenue Sharing in the NHL works.

Revenue Sharing is a fixed % of league-wide revenue (HRR in CBA terms). Moving Team A receiving Revenue Sharing to Location B doesn’t reduce the amount of money the other teams contribute to the Revenue Sharing pool. Unless new Location B is a top 10 revenue producer—which Quebec would not be.

And if new Location B (Quebec) brings in higher revenue then Team A (Relocated) that would actually increase the Revenue Sharing dollars the top 10 revenue teams have to contribute to the sharing pool.

 

[garbageteam]

I keep thinking about the current situation, and coming to the conclusion that it's a new world we are about to experience, and all the lessons we learned before COVID do not necessarily tell us much.

What we knew before was this:
BOG was very happy to expand to Vegas and to Seattle. Presumably because of the 1.15B in expansion fees they received for said expansion, along with what we assume will be increased US broadcast monies.

BOG respected the rabidness of the Quebec City market, but could not see advantage for themselves in going there. Chiefly because local money doesn't get shared, so it's not really a problem to the owners of Minnesota, Denver, Nashville and Pittsburgh (and everyone else of course) if Florida and Arizona are losing money or if Winnipeg makes money. That's a local issue.

The reason for no relocation was chiefly that there have always been owners who were willing to stay in the present markets, and try to grow the market, while accepting some losses along the way.

Now, however, we are going to have a new paradigm.
It will be perhaps 4-5 years before we could reasonably expect attendance and business spending to return to prior levels.

We don't know how the TV contract will respond to COVID. There are reasons to believe that this crisis is going to cost the NHL because the broadcasters won't be paying what they might have pre-COVID.

So, where is the money going to come from? And, what is going to happen going forward with the CBA? Presently, the limits on escrow in the CBA seem to suggest that the players will get much more than their 50% share for a few years here. That likely means owners losing money.

Does that mean that some markets will have no owner willing to continue to try to operate in them? We don't know. It might.

Does it mean that Quebec becomes more attractive? Maybe. But, on the other hand, Canada is likely to be more conservative in re-opening, and thus the local potential won't be able to be realized.

In short, it's difficult to guess what will happen, or even what is the best move financially.

The most salient post on this page. Without COVID, it seemed the Quebec bid was many miles away. With the pandemic, of course it's possible the odds are even worse now with overall finances in the professional sports industry being crippled everywhere, but with the chaos and uncertainty that the league could be thrown in for the next few years, may create a rare opening not unlike what happened with Winnipeg. Worth monitoring in the coming years, more than the last few have been.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Surely, the ownership knows a bit more about business and the health of the NHL than we do. I would love to see a Nordiques return but at some point the fact that the owners don't want to return there has to carry some weight. There is a number of franchises that could be moved with ease and 2 expansion opportunities and still nothing.

Multiple NHL owners do not seem that impressed with the Videotron Center.

1. Doubtful at best market interest
2. No suitable arena
3. No interested ownership group
4. Is within Washington's territory and would either be blocked or require a huge territory indemnity fee
5. Doubtful the market can easily support a third pro team
6. This is a thread about Québec expansion...

I am pretty sure there where rumors that the caps where mulling a bid to buy the bears and move them to the beltway. If the Hersey company was bought and gutted like Anheuser Busch was but thankfully that did not happen.

 

[Mightygoose]

Multiple NHL owners do not seem that impressed with the Videotron Center.

Where are you getting this from? From Bettman's presser when the bid was deferred, he gave praise to the building.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Surely, the ownership knows a bit more about business and the health of the NHL than we do. I would love to see a Nordiques return but at some point the fact that the owners don't want to return there has to carry some weight. There is a number of franchises that could be moved with ease and 2 expansion opportunities and still nothing.

good point

i have to think Quebec is a safe choice.

Population wise, Quebec has increased over a million people from approx 7.4 million to approx 8.4 million over the past nine years. That’s pretty good

I can’t compare the outskirts but for the Cities themselves in Population

Quebec 8.4 million
San Antonio 2.3 million
Houston 6.3 million
Winnipeg 732,000
Ottawa 1.3 million plus outskirts?
State of Connecticut including Hartford is 3.5 million


IDK, it’s a hockey area with history, a growing population and Natural rivalries already established. Ottawa took place of Hartford while the rest of the rivalries are already in place.

what is the problem? IDK

 

[Scandale du Jour]

good point

i have to think Quebec is a safe choice.

Population wise, Quebec has increased over a million people from approx 7.4 million to approx 8.4 million over the past nine years. That’s pretty good

I can’t compare the outskirts but for the Cities themselves in Population

Quebec 8.4 million
San Antonio 2.3 million
Houston 6.3 million
Winnipeg 732,000
Ottawa 1.3 million plus outskirts?
State of Connecticut including Hartford is 3.5 million


IDK, it’s a hockey area with history, a growing population and Natural rivalries already established. Ottawa took place of Hartford while the rest of the rivalries are already in place.

what is the problem? IDK

8.4M is the entire province, half of these people live in Montreal.

 

[NYSPORTS]

8.4M is the entire province, half of these people live in Montreal.

oh really?

so do you feel Quebec is a bad idea? Do you feel it would not work?

 

[Scandale du Jour]

oh really?

so do you feel Quebec is a bad idea?

Well, it is a small market with high and steady demand. So, I do not think it is a bad idea per se.

Quebec and its surroundings is about as big as Ottawa.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Well, it is a small market with high and steady demand. So, I do not think it is a bad idea per se.

Quebec and its surroundings is about as big as Ottawa.

i get the NHL wants a larger American audience yet i can’t help but think many American hockey fans want to see the Nords play their team. Everybody from Detroit east and as South as Washington would love it IMO.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Where are you getting this from? From Bettman's presser when the bid was deferred, he gave praise to the building.

I was probably reading to much into what Jacobs said and the lack of enthusiasm for the expansion bid. https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...ing-with-seattle-whats-that-mean-quebec-city/

 

[Pandemonia]

I was probably reading to much into what Jacobs said and the lack of enthusiasm for the expansion bid. https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...ing-with-seattle-whats-that-mean-quebec-city/

In that case u need to read all the other things Jermey Jacobs says, espy all his negative comments about Quebec and Canada in general.

 

[KevFu]

Personally, I think adding Quebec is just "the right thing to do" and I think Bettman is going to feel that way as he's legacy shopping before his retirement. He can't go back and correct the mistakes of labor stoppages, only prevent new ones; and he can't go back and save franchises that moved early in his tenure before he realized the power of his office. But having an NHL team back in Minnesota, Winnipeg and Quebec as he retires is an extremely do-able objective.

 

[Colin226]

Personally, I think adding Quebec is just "the right thing to do" and I think Bettman is going to feel that way as he's legacy shopping before his retirement. He can't go back and correct the mistakes of labor stoppages, only prevent new ones; and he can't go back and save franchises that moved early in his tenure before he realized the power of his office. But having an NHL team back in Minnesota, Winnipeg and Quebec as he retires is an extremely do-able objective.

I think it's less about what Bettman wants for himself and his legacy, and more about what the other owners want since ultimately he works for them. And I just don't get the vibe that it's much of a thought for the owners at this point. They seem more concerned with having a stable group of owners and in growing revenues (largely via a bigger USA television deal, which Quebec doesn't really help with). Plus, the threat of a team moving to Quebec can be leveraged to help them get new arenas that are more publicly financed. Dare I say it might be a more strategic business move to not put a team in Quebec, and just save it as a last resort should a team need to up and move suddenly....

 

[KevFu]

I think it's less about what Bettman wants for himself and his legacy, and more about what the other owners want since ultimately he works for them. And I just don't get the vibe that it's much of a thought for the owners at this point. They seem more concerned with having a stable group of owners and in growing revenues (largely via a bigger USA television deal, which Quebec doesn't really help with). Plus, the threat of a team moving to Quebec can be leveraged to help them get new arenas that are more publicly financed. Dare I say it might be a more strategic business move to not put a team in Quebec....

I get what you're saying, but I think QC would be welcomed in (once they find another owner/market out West) for the same reason the owners really didn't care that NYI was a financial disaster for 20 years, Arizona and Florida have fallen somewhere between disaster and "functionally poor team." The problems in a market are that owner's problem.

The need for a "they could always move to..." leverage isn't a big deal.

1. There are 14 markets in the US top 35 that don't have NHL teams, so it's not like there aren't places to talk to.

2. Unlike the 90s, teams aren't playing in non-modern, out of date arenas. Arenas and stadiums built in the 1960s to mid 80s were all about "get people in, sell them a hotdog, popcorn and beer, get people out" and anything built after Camden Yards opened is about revenue generation. Most the league opened venues between 1993 and 2003. The fifth-oldest (about to be third-oldest) venue in the NHL is SAP Center in San Jose. It's 26 years old and still a great venue. There's no calls to replace it. We're like 15 years away from these teams needing new venues. Really the only team playing in a venue that needs to be replaced is probably Anaheim.

3. So, let's go down the list by oldest venues: 2 NYI and 3 CAL just got arena deals done; 1 NYR, 4 ANA, 5 SJS, 7 CHI, 8 VAN, 9 BOS, 11 MON, 15 PHI, 16 WAS, 19 TOR, 20 LA... they aren't leaving those markets. 10 TB extended lease to 2037, 12 NASH can't leave until 2049.

The only teams that can play that card of relocation anytime soon:
6 STL, the city just lost the NFL, Blues will get an arena deal done. I can't find their lease details.
13 OTT
14 BUF (owner also owns the Bills, so it will be a package deal)
17 FLA - 2028 lease expires