Quebec City getting a franchise ?

[bleed_oil]

If your interest in the sport has less to do with the players on the ice and more to do with what names are on the front of the sweaters, then there's not much we can do.

That arguement holds no water whatsoever.
Did you follow hockey in Finland or Russia during the lockout?
Fact is 90% of real hockey fans would prefer the tradition, history and atmosphere of a game in Quebec City, Winnipeg or Minnesota for that matter over a game in places like Nashville, Florida, Phoenix or Anaheim where the game means nothing and frankly no one in the city cares....

 

[SOLR]

This thread is kind of funny. IB gives a really, really good list of what Quebec City would have to do. Outlines the points and everything.

And then some random person's argument against him is just "You have no idea! We know more than you do!"

Being a city native and part of the corporate family, I think it's not foolish for me to pretend that I know more about the city I work, live in, then the casual hf boards moderator who have no idea about the realities he will throw every stereotypes at.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

That arguement holds no water whatsoever.
Did you follow hockey in Finland or Russia during the lockout?
Fact is 90% of real hockey fans would prefer the tradition, history and atmosphere of a game in Quebec City, Winnipeg or Minnesota for that matter over a game in places like Nashville, Florida, Phoenix or Anaheim where the game means nothing and frankly no one in the city cares....

"Holds no water whatsoever"? Maybe to you, but you've already made your feelings on the matter well-known.

It's interesting that you're using "fact" and "real hockey fans" together in the same sentence, when you haven't even come up with an acceptable definition of "real hockey fans". Your appeal to emotion fallacy isn't going to work here.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Being a city native and part of the corporate family, I think it's not foolish for me to pretend that I know more about the city I work, live in, then the casual hf boards moderator who have no idea about the realities he will throw every stereotypes at.

I guarantee that IB knows more about the business of the NHL than you do, and it's not even close. He might even be the most knowledgeable non-NHL-affiiliated person with respect to the current salary cap format.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

So we shouldn't see any "Bring back the Nords" or "Bring back the Jets" or "Save the Preds" or "Save the Pens" campaigns because real hockey fans are about the NHL not the logo on the front of the sweater? If you set yourself up like this, Dr. No, someone's gonna have to call you on it.

You know me. I'm all about the "real hockey fans".

 

[SOLR]

I guarantee that IB knows more about the business of the NHL than you do, and it's not even close. He might even be the most knowledgeable non-NHL-affiiliated person with respect to the current salary cap format.

So you know who I am? I wont get into this, since only you seems to be interested by such egocentric details. Where I disagree with IB:

1) Revenues capabilities of the city with a new arena.(no arena no team)

2) That he has the contacts to know what is happening behind the
scenes in Quebec City more than I do, with my own clients!. It's pretty bold presumption to say the least. With the predators possibly moving, its seen as a signal for others.

3) Like others, hes saying: "Forget it, won't happen." While he didnt even dare to look at the situation in details. He might not even be aware that the political climate around a return as changed drastically in the past few years. It's like me commenting on the governor of Iowa, I won't.

 

[bleed_oil]

"Holds no water whatsoever"? Maybe to you, but you've already made your feelings on the matter well-known.

It's interesting that you're using "fact" and "real hockey fans" together in the same sentence, when you haven't even come up with an acceptable definition of "real hockey fans". Your appeal to emotion fallacy isn't going to work here.

Well do tell then, did you follow European hockey during the lockout, because supposedly you dont care about the team - only the players.
No, I suppose I used the wrong terminology, its not a "fact". But whatever the case, my point is valid. An extremely small percentage of people in any of those markets cares for hockey - the ratings say as much. I'd much rather prefer watching the history of a Quebec City vs Montreal game than Nasvhille vs Phoenix where even the ushers in the arena don't have a clue whats going on.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

So you know who I am?

It doesn't really matter to me, quite frankly. But if you have credentials that are relevant to the discussion, then it might be nice if we knew about them.

It'd be like Bill Gates posting anonymously in a computer/technology forum. If people knew who he was, his words might be given more credence.

Are you Marcel Aubut?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Well do tell then, did you follow European hockey during the lockout, because supposedly you dont care about the team - only the players.
No, I suppose I used the wrong terminology, its not a "fact". But whatever the case, my point is valid. An extremely small percentage of people in any of those markets cares for hockey - the ratings say as much. I'd much rather prefer watching the history of a Quebec City vs Montreal game than Nasvhille vs Phoenix where even the ushers in the arena don't have a clue whats going on.

You're missing the point, but yes, I did follow European hockey during the lockout. Partly because I have a web page to maintain, but partly because I like good hockey.

And your ushers comment is disparaging, false, and rude.

 

[TrentSteele]

Being a fan of the logo on the front of the jersey has more to do with being a fan of the city you live in than to do with being a fan of the sport.

I live in Winnipeg, but I am currently a fan of Edmonton, but if Winnipeg were to ever get a team back I would instantly drop my allegance to Edmonton. I believe this is how the majority of fans are in all sports, where pride of your city trumps love of the game.

 

[Hasbro]

You know me. I'm all about the "real hockey fans".

He found you out Doc.

Yes Dr No isn't a real hockey fan, he is merely a program designed at the CU computer science department to harass Canadians for loading up our Pepsi machines with their currency.

Like I said "smug". I'm as real a hockey fan as any Dedmontonian.

 

[SOLR]

It doesn't really matter to me, quite frankly. But if you have credentials that are relevant to the discussion, then it might be nice if we knew about them.

It'd be like Bill Gates posting anonymously in a computer/technology forum. If people knew who he was, his words might be given more credence.

Are you Marcel Aubut?

No I'm not Mr Aubut, still, I do like my anonymity on this board. All I'm gonna say is that I have many ears in eastern Canada business world because of my clients(I work in marketing). I can confirm what is publicly known about Marcel starting to work on a new arena for the first time in 12 years. That's all I'm gonna say.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

So you know who I am? I wont get into this, since only you seems to be interested by such egocentric details. Where I disagree with IB:

1) Revenues capabilities of the city with a new arena.(no arena no team)

2) That he has the contacts to know what is happening behind the
scenes in Quebec City more than I do, with my own clients!. It's pretty bold presumption to say the least. With the predators possibly moving, its seen as a signal for others.

3) Like others, hes saying: "Forget it, won't happen." While he didnt even dare to look at the situation in details. He might not even be aware that the political climate around a return as changed drastically in the past few years. It's like me commenting on the governor of Iowa, I won't.

In order ...

1. There is no new arena on the table - nothing is under construction, nothing has even been formally designed and presented ... so talking about the "revenues capabilities of the city with a new arena" is a moot point in my book. I may think Seattle has all kinds of revenue capabilities, but given their current arena (which is wholly insufficient for the NHL) and the fact that they don't have plans for a new arena anytime soon, it means squat.

2. Doctor No didn't say that I have more contacts than anyone else, nor have I ever claimed as much.

3. The political climate may be changing, and that's fine - but until a new arena is actually announced and ground is broken on that site, the NHL isn't coming back to Quebec City ... unless you think that fans there will be willing to pay an average $60 per ticket (or more) to sit in an aging arena that seats just under 15,500 and has few if any luxury boxes. There's also legitimate questions about whether Le Colisee actually meets the current minimum NHL standards for an arena - but I don't have all the details on that at the moment; if it doesn't, then it's definitely going to take a new arena ... which again, has yet to be formally designed and presented much less been financed.

 

[SOLR]

In order ...

1. There is no new arena on the table - nothing is under construction, nothing has even been formally designed and presented ... so talking about the "revenues capabilities of the city with a new arena" is a moot point in my book. I may think Seattle has all kinds of revenue capabilities, but given their current arena (which is wholly insufficient for the NHL) and the fact that they don't have plans for a new arena anytime soon, it means squat.

2. Doctor No didn't say that I have more contacts than anyone else, nor have I ever claimed as much.

3. The political climate may be changing, and that's fine - but until a new arena is actually announced and ground is broken on that site, the NHL isn't coming back to Quebec City ... unless you think that fans there will be willing to pay an average $60 per ticket (or more) to sit in an aging arena that seats just under 15,500 and has few if any luxury boxes. There's also legitimate questions about whether Le Colisee actually meets the current minimum NHL standards for an arena - but I don't have all the details on that at the moment; if it doesn't, then it's definitely going to take a new arena ... which again, has yet to be formally designed and presented much less been financed.

In Order.

1. First lemme discuss your initial affirmation - "There is no new arena on the table" This is my biggest problem with your whole point. How do you know that exactly? How can you make an affirmation like this simply by reading on the Internet?

In the case of a very rich investor coming to town like it's rumored, its pretty logic and normal that everything will happen like a domino. We might have the concession and then work on an arena. Balsillie is doing the same thing, he doesnt have an arena. But It's a known public fact(I dont think it did spread much) that Aubut is working on the project. So something is on the table from somewhere, actual land is being selected for the arena, architects are working on the design. Those are all known public facts that probably didnt leak past the french medias.

2. I was answering him and his often very particular way of telling you hes right and everybody else is wrong. (e-Bullying). You said and a previous post that Quebec would be a perennial revenue sharing candidate? I was answering that as well.

3. Thats where I disagree on how it could happen. Someone with the money might be more interested to finalize the acquisition of an NHL concession before he put his arena projects on the table.(Acquiring a team is the hard part, not building an arena for a guy like Dietrich Mateschitz) Exactly like Balsilie is doing. Bought the preds and now hes shopping around for the place to build his arena. It doesnt mean the plans arent ready, that the money isnt there etc. Imo the same investor could very well live with having to play 1 year in the Colisée, much like the pens will play in the Mellon till 2009-2010.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

I'm going to ignore all of your post, except for one item:

e-Bully

Name calling is NOT tolerated here, and directing it at a moderator is tolerated even less. If you want to discuss things, fine - but if you want to continue to toss around names to put down others, it's not going to last very long.

 

[...is a goober]

Fine, let's pretend your points about tourism hold water.

-- When is the new arena going to be built?
-- How many luxury boxes and club boxes will it have?
-- Who's going to buy those luxury boxes in the new arena?
-- How much can a team there realistically charge and expect to sell out every night?
-- Throw in the taxes imposed by the province and city; how much revenue will they need to generate to break even?
-- Can they operate without relying perenially on revenue sharing?

No team in Quebec City can compete in today's NHL unless (A) they have an owner willing to eat millions of dollars in losses every year [incredibly unlikely], (B) the NHL is going to waive paid attendance requirements for revenue sharing [also incredibly unlikely], or (C) they get a new arena [for which there are no plans on the table]. When Quebec City starts getting serious about a new arena, then we've got something to talk about - until then, thinking a team can survive in Quebec City in the current arena is pure fantasy.

Fine, let's pretend this post is even remotely relevent to what I was saying. Why are you telling me this anyway? I call you on an inconsistant, careless comment and you spout out about why you think Quebec will never have an NHL team? What do I, or you for that matter, know about the situation in Quebec?

I don't live in Quebec, and have never been. I bet that the same could be said about you. But I am willing to listen to what someone who lives there has to say about the subject, unlike some here, obviously.

 

[...is a goober]

I'm going to ignore all of your post, except for one item:


Name calling is NOT tolerated here, and directing it at a moderator is tolerated even less. If you want to discuss things, fine - but if you want to continue to toss around names to put down others, it's not going to last very long.

Interesting.

 

[SOLR]

I'm going to ignore all of your post, except for one item:


Name calling is NOT tolerated here, and directing it at a moderator is tolerated even less. If you want to discuss things, fine - but if you want to continue to toss around names to put down others, it's not going to last very long.

Uhh, please read what I wrote, the e-bully comment was not addressed to you, and forgive me about its use to altogether, I forgot to conjugate it to characterize what I was saying about Mr. No. It was "(e-bullying)" that I wanted to write.

Never wanted to name call anyone here.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Uhh, please read what I wrote, the e-bully comment was not adressed to you, and forgive me about its use to altogether, I forgot to conjugate it to characterize what I was saying about Mr. No. It was "(e-bullying)" that I wanted to write.

So in your opinion, I'm an "e-bully"?

And what's with the "Mr. No" comment? I don't make fun of your name.

 

[jsginsocal]

That arguement holds no water whatsoever.
Did you follow hockey in Finland or Russia during the lockout?
Fact is 90% of real hockey fans would prefer the tradition, history and atmosphere of a game in Quebec City, Winnipeg or Minnesota for that matter over a game in places like Nashville, Florida, Phoenix or Anaheim where the game means nothing and frankly no one in the city cares....

I'm getting pretty sick of your ridiculous posts... "nobody cares" = sold out 34 games in a row in Anaheim? I've been fairly surprised at the level of buzz the Ducks generated with winning the Stanley Cup. The Ducks are not on the same level as the Dodgers, Lakers, Clippers or Angels - but it doesn't mean nobody cares.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

why put an NHL franchise in Quebec City at all

What has exactly changed in Quebec since Monsieur Aubut SOLD HIS FRANCHISE TO Stan Kroenke & Colorado in 1997, SOLR, to warrant a return to Quebec. Why did Monsieur Aubut sell the franchise then if he couldn't control their destiny back then.

Nothing has changed significantly in a decade if the provincial government didn't support the Nordiques then, even when Montreal ran their franchise out of there it showed to all that Quebecers cannot support professional hockey in Quebec City and I wouldn't trust Red Bull to change that fact. TRB is having a hard enough time supporting what they have expanded into ( Scudero Torro Rosso & TRB F1; the Cup teams have rarely qualified as successful nor is RB's soccer property in the US (formerly known as the NY/NJ Metrostars); much less justifying their position to bring hockey to Quebec City.

No one is going to survive competing against the jaggernaut that the Canadiens are and it worked in Quebec for a time w/ two franchises but not now.

I wsouldn't put two cents into anything Monsieur Aubut says or even does nowadays in regards to Quebec because if he had cared anything about what he wanted would the Nordiques have left for Denver in 1997.

The AHL failed as did the IHL when attempting to keep pro hockey in Quebec City but fans are content w/ the Remparts as demostrated ever since Montreal left town.

 

[SOLR]

So in your opinion, I'm an "e-bully"?

And what's with the "Mr. No" comment? I don't make fun of your name.

Not even, I just wanted to say that you are using some e-bullying tactics. "Mr. No" I wrote that out of respect, to be honest, sorry if I again for 2 post in a row made a fool of myself.

Still having a problem sometimes with my english on forums. It's one thing to write technical articles and documents it's another to improvise again and again.

 

[SOLR]

why put an NHL franchise in Quebec City at all

What has exactly changed in Quebec since Monsieur Aubut SOLD HIS FRANCHISE TO Stan Kroenke & Colorado in 1997, SOLR, to warrant a return to Quebec. Why did Monsieur Aubut sell the franchise then if he couldn't control their destiny back then.

Nothing has changed significantly in a decade if the provincial government didn't support the Nordiques then, even when Montreal ran their franchise out of there it showed to all that Quebecers cannot support professional hockey in Quebec City and I wouldn't trust Red Bull to change that fact. TRB is having a hard enough time supporting what they have expanded into ( Scudero Torro Rosso & TRB F1; the Cup teams have rarely qualified as successful nor is RB's soccer property in the US (formerly known as the NY/NJ Metrostars); much less justifying their position to bring hockey to Quebec City.

No one is going to survive competing against the jaggernaut that the Canadiens are and it worked in Quebec for a time w/ two franchises but not now.

I wsouldn't put two cents into anything Monsieur Aubut says or even does nowadays in regards to Quebec because if he had cared anything about what he wanted would the Nordiques have left for Denver in 1997.

The AHL failed as did the IHL when attempting to keep pro hockey in Quebec City but fans are content w/ the Remparts as demostrated ever since Montreal left town.

Why did he sold?

1) In the first place Aubut is NOT a hockey fan. He likes the business of hockey.

2) There was no political will at all to build a new Arena, lets remember that 12 years ago the CDN$ was around .70USD.

What did change

1) First we have some new very rich people because of the dotcom boom and other ventures, even locally, we created some decent fortunes.

2) The political part changed drastically since 1995 as well, with the ADQ (a pro-Quebec City party) now very well established at the provincial level.

3) Everyone got to know about the Quebec City 400th anniversary spending spree for next year (including world champ of hockey) major infrastructure renovation etc. The perfect time to ask for a new arena! (And to annonce the project)

Other points

1) Habs are not a financial competitor really. Developing the market is the real challenge.

2) Hmmm, I don't have the same evil opinion about Aubut, he did a lot for this city and he was pretty sad and broken that the media treated him like they did. Hes not a billionaire therefore he can't really do what he wants. He would have built an Arena, we still would have the Nordiques.

3) IHL/AHL, the IHL worked but that management wasnt serious one bit and collapsed, the IHL was in bad shape also. Then came the AHL, affiliated with the habs...its like putting the school club for the yankees in boston.

4) Oh I'm not unrealistic about Dietrich, but if he wants to spend his money, it's his choice really.

 

[Timmy]

So in your opinion, I'm an "e-bully"?

Does this mean you're going to give me back my e-lunch money?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Does this mean you're going to give me back my e-lunch money?

C'mon, guys - it's all VCash these days. And ball bearings.