Quebec City getting a franchise ?

puckhead103*

Guest
No problem sir.
"If the Nordiques revive, I would love to play there at the end of my carreer. And I am not the only one. Many other guys in the team would like to see Quebec City getting an nhl team back. Quebec is a beautiful city and a city of hockey."
thank you...

i hope quebec gets a NHL team in the future......the league needs it...:handclap:

don't get too down on the the pro-US corporate, capitalist fools here on this board.....they are not very important.....
 
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daynus

Registered User
Nov 25, 2002
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just lovely. if you can pay your own way go for it. if its like politics in canada where harper is stealing from the west and giving money to quebec like crazy, then i would have to say, absolutely not. how much more oil would we have to pump out of the west to pay for some ones dream. sorry i'm sick of paying taxes, we are almost motivated to not make any money out west here. you find a rich owner do what ever you feel like. just don't make the rest of the country pay for it.
 

SOLR

Registered User
Jun 4, 2006
12,557
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Toronto / North York
just lovely. if you can pay your own way go for it. if its like politics in canada where harper is stealing from the west and giving money to quebec like crazy, then i would have to say, absolutely not. how much more oil would we have to pump out of the west to pay for some ones dream. sorry i'm sick of paying taxes, we are almost motivated to not make any money out west here. you find a rich owner do what ever you feel like. just don't make the rest of the country pay for it.

Thats ludicrous.

Do you know who paid for the

- Exploration
- Research
- Financing
- Development

Of those Oil field? The federal government, financed in majority by the east. In 30-40 years when petroleum will loose most of its value because of new technologies, who will pay what then? Or do you think the "gold mine" will last forever? Your resources is our resources and our resources are your resources. We are in the same country. :help:

Do you know who is next on the canadian "resources rich province" list?

Quebec, we have a large % of the world reserve of water. Add that to the fact that we are the biggest producers of green energy in Canada.(With a plan to develop our potential even further.)
 
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...is a goober

Registered User
Apr 9, 2007
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Victoria
When Quebec City brings in 39 million tourists a year, let me know. Better yet, when they can bring in 1 million visitors a month in the cold of winter, let me know.

Las Vegas also has a metropolitan population of nearly 1.8 million and climbing, and has the capability of generating all kinds of corporate support from the casino industry and some high-tech firms; Quebec can pull in all kinds of corporate support from ..... :huh:

Really? I thought tourism doesn't matter? Right? Don't ask me, check your post. If you meant something otherwise, you probably should have said it then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_City_Winter_Carnival

Ever heard of this? So, yes, people do toss about in the dead of winter, and they are probably more likely to go to a hockey game, given that they have heard of the sport before. I realise that not all are tourists, but since you aren't being very accurate, why should I?

And, how many of those 39 million want to go to the desert to watch a hockey game? Why would you travel across the country to go to a place where you can gamble, and drink free drinks that are served by scarcely clad women?

Oh, I know, the Canadians who go there on vacay will actually be able to see a game for once. The the tickets will be 10 bucks a pop, if not free, so, actually, yeah, I'm all for it. Get a cheap charter flight down from Van, and the total cost will probably be less than a bronze seat at the garage.
 

SOLR

Registered User
Jun 4, 2006
12,557
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Toronto / North York
The metropolitan area of Quebec City has a population under 750,000 - or about the same size as Winnipeg. The city doesn't even have a CFL team. The mayor certainly hasn't been very supportive of helping the NHL come back. Taxes are much higher there than in the rest of Canada. Is there even a moderately wealthy (read: net worth of $100 million) person leading a committee to bring a team back?

Folks, it's not happening.

Actually yes there is. Marcel Aubut is a $100m + man(and hes leading a committee), the Desmarais family(with good friend Sarkozy just elected in France...), the Tanguay family, Guy Laliberté etc

Quebec City market is bigger than Winnipeg's, there not even a comparison to be made.

1) Proximity to an offer-lite(habs dont have enough seats for the demand) 4m metropolitan area. (Same things applies for Hamilton or others southern ontario cities)

2) Proximity of 3 cities with 150k+ (Saguenay, Trois Riviere, Beauce)
(Quebec city 100km metropolitan population is much bigger than winnipeg, about 1,2m to winnipeg 920k)
Statistic Canada provides only the 25 km numbers.

3) Corporate rules, provides us with the same corporate sponsorship as Montreal. Example, if Videotron pays the Habs, they would have to pay the Nords as well. It would be a PR nightmare not to do so. Only the main sponsors would have to be different and theres more than enough corporate presence in Quebec. (Forget all the misinformation spread about the lack of corporate support, thats basically bullocks, we lacked and are still lacking corporate infrastructures, fixed with a new arena)

4) With the current demographic development Quebec City is growing at a faster rate than Winnipeg and this trend will continue for at least another 5 to 10 years. (Baby boomer retirement in an institutional city.) Ottawa is living the same thing.
 

Wetcoaster

Guest
Even if there are more people in both of these cities (metropolitain), the fact is that Quebec city have more hockey fans than the predators and maybe even the penguins.
And they will still be hockey fans whether or not the NHL goes back.

But what neither Winnipeg nor Quebec Cty have is a corporate sector of sufficent size to generate a 60% premium season ticket base.
 

SOLR

Registered User
Jun 4, 2006
12,557
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Toronto / North York
People that want the Nords back always say that but the problem is the franchise never moved from lack of attendence but the lack of corporate support.That's why a team like Buffalo loses money even if they sell out every game they lack corporate support.

No
no
and
no!!

Thats completely untrue to it's more profound roots.

No
no
and
no!

The colisée the Quebéc, a design from the 60's only have 4 or 6 corporate lodges, compared to the league average of what? 60-70? With a modern arena we will have the infrastructure to have corporate support...you cannot...get...corporate.. .support...if...you...dont...have...anything...to...sell.

Aubut and may others explained that any corporation giving 1$ to the habs would have to give the same 1$ to the nords. The province of Quebec is like a small nation with inclusive corporations that would have very little choice, PR wise to support both cities. And Aubut confirmed with 20 years of numbers those allegations. What Aubut said about corporate support when the nords left is this: We cannot sell a box that doesnt exist. With a new arena we would still have the team.
 
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Ted Hoffman

The other Rick Zombo
Dec 15, 2002
28,855
8,110
Really? I thought tourism doesn't matter? Right? Don't ask me, check your post. If you meant something otherwise, you probably should have said it then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_City_Winter_Carnival

Ever heard of this? So, yes, people do toss about in the dead of winter, and they are probably more likely to go to a hockey game, given that they have heard of the sport before. I realise that not all are tourists, but since you aren't being very accurate, why should I?

And, how many of those 39 million want to go to the desert to watch a hockey game? Why would you travel across the country to go to a place where you can gamble, and drink free drinks that are served by scarcely clad women?

Oh, I know, the Canadians who go there on vacay will actually be able to see a game for once. The the tickets will be 10 bucks a pop, if not free, so, actually, yeah, I'm all for it. Get a cheap charter flight down from Van, and the total cost will probably be less than a bronze seat at the garage.
Fine, let's pretend your points about tourism hold water.

-- When is the new arena going to be built?
-- How many luxury boxes and club boxes will it have?
-- Who's going to buy those luxury boxes in the new arena?
-- How much can a team there realistically charge and expect to sell out every night?
-- Throw in the taxes imposed by the province and city; how much revenue will they need to generate to break even?
-- Can they operate without relying perenially on revenue sharing?

No team in Quebec City can compete in today's NHL unless (A) they have an owner willing to eat millions of dollars in losses every year [incredibly unlikely], (B) the NHL is going to waive paid attendance requirements for revenue sharing [also incredibly unlikely], or (C) they get a new arena [for which there are no plans on the table]. When Quebec City starts getting serious about a new arena, then we've got something to talk about - until then, thinking a team can survive in Quebec City in the current arena is pure fantasy.
 

Sotnos

Registered User
Jul 8, 2002
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Not here
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This cuts both ways. You have read this thread, right.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=385428
Yeah, it's responding to comments of the type I mentioned above. Doesn't show anything going "both ways".

My guess is that NMK is a straight-up person and I will accept that the comments were made in fun. However, in such a heated environment moderators need to be a bit cautious about what they say.
That's certainly not for you to decide.

I'm curious, is there a site similar to the jetsowner site for the Nords? Maybe there are just more ex-Jets fans here pushing the idea of a team in Winnipeg, but Quebec doesn't come up nearly as often on this board.
 

Pnut

Guest
I hope they do get another team. I think that Canada should get atleast 2 or 3 more teams before we go to unproven markets.

better than going ot markets that have proven that they don't deserve a team? :cry: Just so people know i think that Bettman said that Las Vegas is no where near getting a franchise, and besides the NBA will be ther in 3 to 4 years

In my opinion :teach: that leaves Quebec, Winnipeg and KC fighting out to get teams
 

SOLR

Registered User
Jun 4, 2006
12,557
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Toronto / North York
Yeah, it's responding to comments of the type I mentioned above. Doesn't show anything going "both ways".


That's certainly not for you to decide.

I'm curious, is there a site similar to the jetsowner site for the Nords? Maybe there are just more ex-Jets fans here pushing the idea of a team in Winnipeg, but Quebec doesn't come up nearly as often on this board.

There are 2 sites actually, in french.

www.retourlnh.com
www.quebecnhl.com
 

nomorekids

The original, baby
Feb 28, 2003
33,375
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Nashville, TN
www.twitter.com
As a forum moderator you should be above this kind of garbage. Stupid people say stupid things. It your job not to perpetuate this.

You're absolutely correct. I've seen a lot of stupid things said in this thread.

My comment, as I already explained, was a caricaturization of the underlying belief of a GOOD MANY fans on this board. It's perfectly okay to slag on southern\western markets, but it's long been considered heresy to say anything negative about a Canadian market. Worse yet, there's another inherent idea that hockey BELONGS to Canada\Canadians, and while they've been quite gracious in letting us borrow it for these past years, the time for silliness is over, and it's time to return it to its rightful owners. For a league with a fanbase so fixated on ridiculous things like ratings, attendance, revenues(to the point that the game itself becomes secondary in its importance), it's amazing that the supposed "core fans" are so possessive and at times even xenophobic when it comes to growing the game.

That said, I don't apologize for my comment. I've seen just as incendiary from you in the past weeks, something that no doubt stems from where you currently live and the rumors about my own team.
 

SOLR

Registered User
Jun 4, 2006
12,557
5,999
Toronto / North York
Fine, let's pretend your points about tourism hold water.

-- When is the new arena going to be built?
-- How many luxury boxes and club boxes will it have?
-- Who's going to buy those luxury boxes in the new arena?
-- How much can a team there realistically charge and expect to sell out every night?
-- Throw in the taxes imposed by the province and city; how much revenue will they need to generate to break even?
-- Can they operate without relying perenially on revenue sharing?

No team in Quebec City can compete in today's NHL unless (A) they have an owner willing to eat millions of dollars in losses every year [incredibly unlikely], (B) the NHL is going to waive paid attendance requirements for revenue sharing [also incredibly unlikely], or (C) they get a new arena [for which there are no plans on the table]. When Quebec City starts getting serious about a new arena, then we've got something to talk about - until then, thinking a team can survive in Quebec City in the current arena is pure fantasy.

You talk like your so sure of what your saying, but in fact you have no idea of what you are talking about.

1) New arena? Thats the good question. And everything we say that could happen is based on the hypothesis that a new arena is at the center of the project.

2) Why do you even mention that? If we have a new arena the number of boxes will be there.

3) Like I said, the majority of the boxes will be sold to the same companies that buys boxes in Montreal. The waiting list there is so long, they could sell the Bell center 5 times. Plus Quebec City corporate family is vastly underrated.

4) Quebec can charge as much as Ottawa.(Ottawa is 12th in attendance revenues, Quebec would be top 15.)

5) That might be subject to discussion, depending of the city its built in. Theres many rumors it will be built in Levis.(Witch might help tremendously tax wise.) A lot like Gatineau for Ottawa.

6) Revenue Sharing? I believe our revenues would make us an average team.(With a new building) And if the rumors about the Red Bull owner are true, we might become a top revenue team. Get informed if you dont know why I'm saying this. The guy is the door to the European market, Bettman would welcome him in 3 nanoseconds. http://www.imediaconnection.com/news/2340.asp Get ready for the Quebec Red Bulls, playing in the Centre Red Bulls, selling more merchandise than anyone in the NHL but the habs.

7) "When Quebec City starts getting serious about a new arena, then we've got something to talk about - until then, thinking a team can survive in Quebec City in the current arena is pure fantasy."

Do you think we are delusional? We know we need a new arena. Theres not a day/week that the media here doesnt repeat it. Aubut is currently working on it, if you dont know who Aubut is, hes the guy that invented the current CBA while the owner of the nords back in 1994. He's a world-class bully and a personal friend of Bettman. How could you know if theres is any arena plans on the table? Do you know the new provincial political party called the ADQ that is now the official opposition in Quebec? Theres a lot more talks than I have seen for the past 10 years, exponentially more.
 

Fugu

Guest
Fine, let's pretend your points about tourism hold water.

-- When is the new arena going to be built?
-- How many luxury boxes and club boxes will it have?
-- Who's going to buy those luxury boxes in the new arena?
-- How much can a team there realistically charge and expect to sell out every night?
-- Throw in the taxes imposed by the province and city; how much revenue will they need to generate to break even?
-- Can they operate without relying perenially on revenue sharing?


I like this list. I propose we apply it to all discussions about existing and new teams whenever viability becomes an issue.

Is there a benchmark for success?



-- When is the new arena going to be built? AND how old can it be before a team cries about its inability to compete because the arena is too old? ____ and/or _____.

-- How many luxury boxes and club boxes will it have? Do we want a fixed number or % of total revenues?


-- Who's going to buy those luxury boxes in the new arena? What's the measure for this? Wealth of an area overall? Per capita? # of corporations of size X?



-- How much can a team there realistically charge and expect to sell out every night? >90% capacity of 18K or larger arena?? Avg ticket price >$50??



-- Throw in the taxes imposed by the province and city; how much revenue will they need to generate to break even? Some markets are tougher than others, say NY vs. St. Louis. What's the right answer?



-- Can they operate without relying perenially on revenue sharing? Are you distinguishing between teams that currently DO get revenue sharing as being exempt in this discussion vs. a new location? 50% of the US-based teams received revenue sharing last year. Are any of them coming off that requirement this year? Are there new additions? Is revenue sharing a stop gap solution or a permanent condition? Is one of your metrics that the location most likely able to compete at some point in the future sans revenue sharing as preferable to others?
 

Fourier

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
25,437
19,569
Waterloo Ontario
You're absolutely correct. I've seen a lot of stupid things said in this thread.

My comment, as I already explained, was a caricaturization of the underlying belief of a GOOD MANY fans on this board. It's perfectly okay to slag on southern\western markets, but it's long been considered heresy to say anything negative about a Canadian market. Worse yet, there's another inherent idea that hockey BELONGS to Canada\Canadians, and while they've been quite gracious in letting us borrow it for these past years, the time for silliness is over, and it's time to return it to its rightful owners. For a league with a fanbase so fixated on ridiculous things like ratings, attendance, revenues(to the point that the game itself becomes secondary in its importance), it's amazing that the supposed "core fans" are so possessive and at times even xenophobic when it comes to growing the game.

I am from Edmonton. I can assure you that the elitism you are experiencing now
did not begin with the latest expansion. Even before the Oilers entered the NHL
there were comments about how the NHL was making a mistake going to such a hick town. The comments that the market was too small to deserve a franchise have really never stopped. These have come from both sides of the border and despite what you may think, over the years, in much greater volume than you have
experienced. (remember, this forum represents a very small slice of the world).
We also had to put up with many reports from the US depicting Edmontonians
as eskimos and describing the city as a wasteland. At some point you need to
develop a thick enough skin to dismiss these as ingorance on the part of the author.

You can see further examples of what I am talking about in this thread where individuals from Montreal put down QC as being unworthy.

That said, I don't apologize for my comment. I've seen just as incendiary from you in the past weeks, something that no doubt stems from where you currently live and the rumors about my own team

I did not ask you to apologize. In fact, twice in this thread I have said that I
would give you the benefit of the doubt with respect to your comments
and I stand by that. That being said, I would like you to back up the last line
in your response. Go read my posts. You will see that I have argued that
the KW area could support an NHL team. Most of this was in response
to comments to the contrary by my fellow Canadians. However, I have also
clearly stated on a number of occasions that a) I am not at all convinced
that the Predators will be coming to KW and b) that if Nashville steps up
in support of the Preds then I feel strongly that the team should stay.
None the less you seem to have decided that being
from Waterloo makes me the enemy.

In closing, I will say that the you're support "growing the game" or you're a
xenophobe argument does aggrevate me but not for the reason you might expect.
In fact, it is because most people (I will exclude you in this case) who use this argument are ignorant of the long history that hockey has had at many levels in the US. Over that time there have been both successes and failures (as has been the case in Canada
by the way) and there will continue to be both in the future. Again, go back and read my earlier posts on this.
 

Wetcoaster

Guest
Yeah, it's responding to comments of the type I mentioned above. Doesn't show anything going "both ways".


That's certainly not for you to decide.

I'm curious, is there a site similar to the jetsowner site for the Nords? Maybe there are just more ex-Jets fans here pushing the idea of a team in Winnipeg, but Quebec doesn't come up nearly as often on this board.
Maybe fantasy hockey is not as big a deal in Quebec City as in Winnipeg?
 

Hunter Gathers

The Crown
Feb 27, 2002
106,463
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This thread is kind of funny. IB gives a really, really good list of what Quebec City would have to do. Outlines the points and everything.

And then some random person's argument against him is just "You have no idea! We know more than you do!"
 

bleed_oil

Registered User
Aug 16, 2005
3,898
40
Id ont know anything about the finances of Quebec City returning to the NHL, but I'd love to see it happen. The atmosphere and environment of a game in Quebec City was amazing, not to forget the rivalry w\ the Habs. Compare that with the unwatchable garbage including the lieks of Nashville\Phoenix\Florida.... we are served with these days.
 

PeteWorrell

[...]
Aug 31, 2006
4,625
1,728
This thread is kind of funny. IB gives a really, really good list of what Quebec City would have to do. Outlines the points and everything.

And then some random person's argument against him is just "You have no idea! We know more than you do!"
And that's why i said it's useless to discuss it with them.:help:

But hey i'm from Montreal what do i know.
 

Bear of Bad News

Your Third or Fourth Favorite HFBoards Admin
Sep 27, 2005
13,341
26,504
Id ont know anything about the finances of Quebec City returning to the NHL, but I'd love to see it happen. The atmosphere and environment of a game in Quebec City was amazing, not to forget the rivalry w\ the Habs. Compare that with the unwatchable garbage including the lieks of Nashville\Phoenix\Florida.... we are served with these days.

If your interest in the sport has less to do with the players on the ice and more to do with what names are on the front of the sweaters, then there's not much we can do.
 

Fugu

Guest
This thread is kind of funny. IB gives a really, really good list of what Quebec City would have to do. Outlines the points and everything.

And then some random person's argument against him is just "You have no idea! We know more than you do!"

That's why it's a discussion board? People list stuff and some random people show up and argue. Other random people show up and rubber stamp some of the ideas. :sarcasm:
 

Fugu

Guest
If your interest in the sport has less to do with the players on the ice and more to do with what names are on the front of the sweaters, then there's not much we can do.



So we shouldn't see any "Bring back the Nords" or "Bring back the Jets" or "Save the Preds" or "Save the Pens" campaigns because real hockey fans are about the NHL not the logo on the front of the sweater? If you set yourself up like this, Dr. No, someone's gonna have to call you on it. ;)
 

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