Post-Game Talk: PS #2 - 09/29/16 | devils @ RANGERS | 7:00 PM - MSG

[NYR Viper]

Buch is the type of player who should develop at the NHL level, playing with NHL players. His skill is already one of the best on the team. He committed himself to training and his strength has improved. There will be rough spots for him this season, but it's in everyone's best interest to let him play and develop at the NHL level.

 

[haveandare]

I agree with all this.

I do not think Buch goes down to Hartford. It will be easier and faster transition and development to stay up with the Rangers in New York than go down to Hartford because this is what he is most familiar with since coming over and he has proven so far he can play, he still needs time, but the nerves will settle, his English will get better and his comfort level will get better, and the best place for that is in a place he has taken the time to get familiar with this Summer, the New York area, not Hartford.

Some player develop better by being in the NHL, Buch in my opinion is one of them, others develop better for the NHL while playing in the AHL, but that is not the right path for Buch, in my opinion and theory.

These are good points. On one hand, you don't want to coddle him and treat him differently than everyone else because he's from Russia, meaning he doesn't know the language here well and he can run back to the KHL. On the other hand, those are real issues that have to factor into any decision with him.

The question is, would the benefits on playing a lower level on NA ice for a bit outweigh the negatives of setting him back in terms of comfort in this country, with these people, with this language. It's a really tough decision, but I do agree that an American player playing exactly as he has so far in preseason would start in the AHL. I'm also curious as to what's been going on in practice because multiple beat writers have said he and Kreider and Mika were tearing it up, but in their preseason game together it looked to me like Kreider and Mika were tearing it up and Buch was there sort of helping out now and then. I wonder if it's a comfort and/or pressure issue and he actually has been killing it more so in practice.

 

[BleedinBLUEsince92]

I think you are underestimating just how bad Girardi was...

He was literally, the worst defenseman in the NHL last year, out of 306 defensemen, and 6 of those defensemen played for Patrick Roy who ran a system of letting way too many shots through.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?rep...&sort=shotAttempts&active=1&aggregate=0&pos=D

There is no such thing as Girardi "bouncing back", not in the way people frame it out to be. Girardi Bouncing Back means back to the 14-15 season levels, which is abysmal to begin with, means he'll be bouncing back from ECHL level defending to 7th defenseman levels... Just because he's going from really ****** to only a little ****** doesn't mean he's actually better to the point where he can contribute

That is you judging his play off of what you know. Fans really downplay injuries. All of the abuse his body has taken over the years can mean he's done, but at least give him a season where he's had a full offseason to recover before you have final judgement. Fans act like they know everything. Not even management and the team know about all injuries players endure. Many players pay out of their own pocket and go to doctors privately so they don't have to disclose what they're going through. This is a business. My doctor works with many pro athletes mostly in baseball. He was talking to somebody high up in management for the Baltimore Orioles. Was talking about more they can do to prevent injuries. His exact words was "But then we'll have to pay them more." Now I'm getting off topic but damn just give the guy a chance.

 

[NYR Viper]

The Kreider-Zib-Buch line has been the best line in Training Camp. AV has even said so. Why would you break that up? Silliness.

Miller-Stepan-Nash
Vesey-Hayes-MZA

4th line grouping:
Pirri
Fast
Lindberg
Jooris
Grabner
Gerbe
Jensen
Hrivik
Lapierre (if he is signed)
Glass

I would say (5) of these guys make the team unless a forward is moved who is in the top-9 as I laid out, in which case (6) would make the team.

 

[Unusual Suspect]

I feel more rejuvenated than Nash looked

First post in 9 years. FWIW, don't want Neil back anymore.... Everything that follows offered purely in the context of the two lousy preseason games just played; lots of opportunity to eat some of these words just weeks down the road.

Not seeing as much in McIlrath as lots of other folks are... or are trying to. Last year, given what we had on hand (BOYLE), I was ticked this kid was not given more opportunity. He wasn't BAD when he got a chance. But he's got enhanced competition this year. Clendening looked real good that first game and his puck moving skills are badly needed. Holden is clearly going to be top six out of the gate and Skjei is likely also still ahead of Dylan on the depth chart. My guess is that not only may McIlrath find himself back in Hartford but by midseason may lose "first callup" status to Gilmour, who has also impressed. No gloating or hating here... not happy to lose his physicality, but in 2016 and in this lineup I'm not clear that's the most important factor.

I am also suspecting, just based on what we've seen so far, that Buchnevich may be asked to start the season in Hartford as well. Right now it seems to me like the top nine will need to include Pirri, and will certainly include Vesey. But I don't have much faith that Nash is going to rebound significantly, and I'd like to see Gorton move him out sooner than later -- somehow -- to make room for the kid. Twenty games or so in the AHL might be just what he needs to acclimate a little further.

Also not seeing what all the love for Grabner is about. My fourth line would definitely have Gerbe playing... LOVED what I saw of him yesterday... with Fast and eventually Lindberg. Grabner seems just...fast... and little else. He looks like the 13th man to me when Lindberg returns. Hrivik, like McIlrath, looks a bit better than last year and brings some edge and oomph... but still not enough. He should be moved somewhere that might give him a chance in the NHL.

Vesey looks like the real deal, Kreider and Zibanejad were electric in the first game, Zuccarello's had good magic in the Cup games... looking forward to this season much more than I expected to before Gorton's summer moves. This may not be as great a team in 2016-17 as we'd like, time will tell... but we are just awash in depth for the first time I can remember. Most fascinating training camp in YEARS.

 

[Maineice11]

These are good points. On one hand, you don't want to coddle him and treat him differently than everyone else because he's from Russia, meaning he doesn't know the language here well and he can run back to the KHL. On the other hand, those are real issues that have to factor into any decision with him.

The question is, would the benefits on playing a lower level on NA ice for a bit outweigh the negatives of setting him back in terms of comfort in this country, with these people, with this language. It's a really tough decision, but I do agree that an American player playing exactly as he has so far in preseason would start in the AHL. I'm also curious as to what's been going on in practice because multiple beat writers have said he and Kreider and Mika were tearing it up, but in their preseason game together it looked to me like Kreider and Mika were tearing it up and Buch was there sort of helping out now and then. I wonder if it's a comfort and/or pressure issue and he actually has been killing it more so in practice.

I thought Buch was okay that first game, did not look out of place, but quite timid. Last night's game he was a lot more involved, and I was more impressed by him alone. I thought out of the 2 preseason games though, the Kreider - Z - Buch line has been the best line. I'm hoping they will be together and dressed for Saturday's game because I think Buch has a bit more confidence and is a little less timid and i think that line together next game will be even more impressive.

 

[Kovalev27]

Lighting up Halverson and Chris summers in practice is not the same as NHL games. Buch has looked ok but others have been way better is all. If he were a kid from NA he'd be in Hartford soon. But it's a tough call. If still prefer a trade but you can't not play Pirri for Buch based on performance

 

[silverfish]

Am I the only one that thought Buch looked better than Vesey last night? This despite much worse quality of teammates?

 

[Irishguy42]

Am I the only one that thought Buch looked better than Vesey last night? This despite much worse quality of teammates?

For me, at least, it was a bit of flip-flopping. I think they both looked better than one another for certain stretches.

Then again, they didn't play on the same line, so hard for me to judge

 

[Kovalev27]

Am I the only one that thought Buch looked better than Vesey last night? This despite much worse quality of teammates?

There's no way not even closed

Vesey was one of best players on the ice

 

[silverfish]

For me, at least, it was a bit of flip-flopping. I think they both looked better than one another for certain stretches.

Then again, they didn't play on the same line, so hard for me to judge

That's a fair assessment.

There's no way not even closed

Vesey was one of best players on the ice

I do not agree with this.

 

[Inferno]

im a huge advocate in going after Trouba...but i wouldnt trade kreider for him...no way.

The NHL today is all about speed.

speed with a combination of size, strength and a willingness to take punishment in front of the net?

Dont give up on Kreider.

 

[Kovalev27]

Kreider is a deal breaker agreed

 

[Maineice11]

im a huge advocate in going after Trouba...but i wouldnt trade kreider for him...no way.

The NHL today is all about speed.

speed with a combination of size, strength and a willingness to take punishment in front of the net?

Dont give up on Kreider.

Thank you!!!! Love this post!!!!!

 

[Matz03]

Am I the only one that thought Buch looked better than Vesey last night? This despite much worse quality of teammates?

I thought so too. Buch created more yesterday, Vesey was fine and made little plays around the ice but Buch did more on the offensive front.

 

[haveandare]

Am I the only one that thought Buch looked better than Vesey last night? This despite much worse quality of teammates?

I thought buch still looked like he was hesitating a lot. That shot through the d mans legs was very nice and the goalie was lucky to stop it. Aside from that I feel like he was standing still and passing the puck off an awful lot while Vesey, if nothing else, was taking the puck to the net or taking himself to the net first and foremost. A lot of that is different play styles, which is fine and even necessary. Buch just looks like he's thinking a second too long and isn't really playing naturally yet. I'd like to see another game of him with CK and Mika since he understandably had some crazy nerves that first game.

 

[Lion Hound]

im a huge advocate in going after Trouba...but i wouldnt trade kreider for him...no way.

The NHL today is all about speed.

speed with a combination of size, strength and a willingness to take punishment in front of the net?

Dont give up on Kreider.

100% agree with this.

 

[haveandare]

Yeah no dice moving CK from me. AV likes his forward pairs and we just got a center than meshes with Kreider very very well. Both huge guys with crazy wheels who can score - one more responsible, the other more physical. They're gonna be big for us this year.

 

[Idlerlee]

im a huge advocate in going after Trouba...but i wouldnt trade kreider for him...no way.

The NHL today is all about speed.

speed with a combination of size, strength and a willingness to take punishment in front of the net?

Dont give up on Kreider.

When can we trade the wildly inconsistent physical gift for a player thats consistently good?

Im super negative on Kreider improving this season, we'll see

 

[Inferno]

When can we trade the wildly inconsistent physical gift for a player thats consistently good?

Im super negative on Kreider improving this season, we'll see

wildly inconsistent?
37 in 66
46 in 80
43 in 79

fairly consistent there.

45ish point player right now

consistency isnt his problem in terms of production..his problem is reaching his peak... hes 25 years old, right in the middle of his prime years...theres no way id give up on a guy with legit attainable 30 goal upside...even if he doesnt ever hit it, its a gamble im willing to take over letting him go.

 

[Inferno]

CKs per 60 goal scoring, playmaking, point production, shot generation, relative possession, etc have all been trending upwards (last time i checked)...every year all those stats seem to get better...year after year.

 

[Levitate]

Am I the only one that thought Buch looked better than Vesey last night? This despite much worse quality of teammates?

Eh, Buch did a bit too much standing around I feel. Not a huge huge knock, just that I would like to see him demand and control the puck a bit more. Thought he did a good job getting some shots on net, etc. His shot through the legs of the defenseman that almost got by Wedgewood was a real sneaky pro shot.

Vesey also did well I think, he was just more active in his skating. He did a good job getting into some spots to create chances and make himself a target for his teammates.

 

[NYR]

Am I the only one that thought Buch looked better than Vesey last night? This despite much worse quality of teammates?

They're very different players.

Both are skilled but Vesey is more north/south while Buch is very sneaky/opportunistic .

As NYR fans, It's going to be a lot of fun watching their games progress in the coming years.

 

[failure]

They're very different players.

Both are skilled but Vesey is more north/south while Buch is very sneaky/opportunistic .

As NYR fans, It's going to be a lot of fun watching their games progress in the coming years.

Pretty much on point with my opinion of them. I see Vesey more of a selfish player than Buch at this time. Buch has been progressing, he will figure it out.

 

[Lion Hound]

I preseason game does not make a career, however...

I hate any thoughts of moving Kreider right now. Chemstry is so important.

Michael Nylander came to the NY Rangers after 12 NHL seasons. He was an average top 6 player until then. Then he Centered a line with Jaromir Jagr, and Marty Straka.

The chemistry between these three was just flat out amazing. People will say, yeah...but that's because he was paired with Jagr. Remember this though. Jagr scores 54 goals for the Rangers when he was centered by Nylander. 2nd highest he ever posted. The first was a 62 goal season when he was centered by Mario Lemieux. Nylander in those 2 seasons posted back to back ppg production.

Back to reality...

Not saying Zibanejad is Nylander, nor am I saying Jagr is Chris Kreider. What I am saying is the team has just recently put together a pair of players that really compliment each others styles. Granted its early, but the kind if chem they have from the early stages looks like the kind of chemistry that can give opposing defenseman fits.

That's why you don't trade Chris Kreider.