GDT: Prospects Tournament Sept 16th - 19th

[Guadana]

Yeah, it's a rough business. So I really appreciate when people like @Xirik and @Guttersniped take the time to mention the prospects you look good on. No one will be correct 100% of the time on their assessments about players and people are going to be wrong in certain observations -- especially when it comes to late-round prospects you may have only had the time to scout for two games.

I have a sense of humor about when I'm wrong, and I love it when a player I am skeptical of proves me wrong by becoming better than I thought he could be. You certainly got me good on Edvinsson in the 2021 draft -- the kid looks like a future franchise piece for Detroit and I sorely overemphasized his few flaws when ranking him in the low teens, while you correctly saw him as a future cornerstone NHL defenseman.

But, as I consider whether to return to prospect writing for one more season, I also think of the litany of players who were ignored or overlooked by most draft pundits who I have lauded at length and turned into major players at the NHL level. It's something I'm proud of, and it's a very significant list.

I can guarantee you that if I do return for another year, there will be players I am wrong on. But I think the reason I'm proud of my work is that there have been many more I've been right on, and unlike some prospect/draft writers I've maintained a healthy level of optimism about these young players and their futures. Also, my IQ is probably at least double Byron Bader's, so there's that.

Its ok, Steve. You spent tonns of hours on watching this kids, tonns of hours on understanding their game, where they should work more and what kind of their version could succeed in nhl. So you deserved some feedback in case of bashing on you. So please, fix your 1000 massages about prospects you were wrong in some aspects. And don't forget to add excuse remark.

Bader. Guy should open his own school. I know he loves Nemec, but he even didn't make any article about him, no word about his problems.Every devil fan who watched this prospect tournament, understand, that guy has sky high potential, but he should definitely work on defensive side of the game. Bader just ringing the bell of high expectations, and when Nemec will poop in his firsts games in NHL, he will find some other player with "similar" curve of very good pre nhl results and very bad start of nhl game, and will call him a bust. And scouching will say "I told you so!". 18 yo's have something to work on, just imagine. I believe every 18 yo player should be complete product or even not deserved to be drafted. May be we can watch his tape and try to understand how smart player is? Nah. Who cares.
Or points. Yeah. Slafkovsky, Seider, Sanderson, Edvinsson, Raymond. Look at them! Stupid gm's. Let's add Kasper on that list. Pathetic pics.just imagine, someone could draft them. What? Yzerman got 4 out of 6 in four drafts. Such an idiot. But we could imagine it easily, his previous team didn't have any success.

 

[ninetyeight]

it would be appreciated to tag me in these scenarios so that I have an opportunity to defend my positions and analyses.

I apologize if I offended you with my harsh comment and forgot to tag you. My point wasn't who said what, but that all these player analyses are just one person's opinnion and I urge people to do their own research or at least keep an open mind for alternative takes and not blindly trust all reports. A lot of people also praised Ty Smith's skating so it's good to acknowledge that players do change and media/scouts/analysts do make mistakes.

A lot of prospect reports are also written in a certain 'this is the absolutely truth' kinda way, so my personality always wants to call out anyone who gave someone undeservedly negative feedback. Even though I'm almost always wrong myself.

So just keep doing you and don't mind the criticism, you're a real treasure to this subboard!

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

A defense-first defenseman with size and a long reach who is mobile and capable of moving the puck out of his end quickly with a first pass.

Something the Devils have sorely needed the past three seasons.

How does that relegate him to the 3rd pair?

congrats, you just described Steven Santini. or Alex Urbom.

I have nothing against Bahl, i hope he succeeds where those guys didn’t. But you don’t realistically except him to play above Graves or Siegenthaler, do you?

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

congrats, you just described Steven Santini. or Alex Urbom.

I have nothing against Bahl, i hope he succeeds where those guys didn’t. But you don’t realistically except him to play above Graves or Siegenthaler, do you?

If not that is another indictment of the player personnel department. He was acquired under the assumption that he had first round potential, as part of the Hall trade.

 

[Bleedred]

congrats, you just described Steven Santini. or Alex Urbom.

I just sharted myself reading those names.

Santini was one of the most overrated (by myself included) prospects we had last decade.

Urbom having existed brought me lots of laughs for the overreactions when he was waived in 2013. That was one of my favorite threads of all time on here, next to KURTIS FOSTER MUST GO NOW! (@glenwo2 was the OP for that one) and I think the thread from the second time Mark Fraser filed for arbitration.

The Urbom waiving wasn't its own thread, I believe it was in the current team discussion thread at the time. It sure was a laugher.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

If not that is another indictment of the player personnel department. He was acquired under the assumption that he had first round potential, as part of the Hall trade.

Why do you think anyone expects “first round potential” out of a defenseman drafted in the late second round? Even still, i don’t know how to help you if you think a 22yo defenseman with no offense and 24 games of NHL experience is gonna play above Graves and Siegs next year. It’d be great if he got there at some point, but that’s not the question i was answering back when this started, and i wouldn’t bet on it anyway.

EDIT: I’m thinking maybe you meant first pair potential? If so, i definitely know there’s not a single quote from a Devils source confirming that’s what’s expected of Bahl. If he was widely considered to have that upside, he wouldn’t have been packaged with Nate Schnarr and a first round pick and whatever other spare change was traded for a few months of Taylor Hall.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

I just sharted myself reading those names.

Santini was one of the most overrated (by myself included) prospects we had last decade.

Urbom having existed brought me lots of laughs for the overreactions when he was waived in 2013. That was one of my favorite threads of all time on here, next to KURTIS FOSTER MUST GO NOW! (@glenwo2 was the OP for that one) and I think the thread from the second time Mark Fraser filed for arbitration.

The Urbom waiving wasn't its own thread, I believe it was in the current team discussion thread at the time. It sure was a laugher.

My love affair with Urbom at the time is definitely a big part of why i don’t get excited for Bahl-esque players anymore.

It’s also the recognition that, if you look around the league, you’ll very rarely see the best teams running “tall guy with no offense” on their first or second pairs. Instead you see Columbus give a 4 year to Erik Gudbranson and wonder why they never get better, or Colorado swap Zadorov for Devon Toews and win a cup.

 

[Xirik]

Doesn't Bahl just have to beat Brendan Smith for the 3rd spot to make the team anyways?

 

[Bleedred]

Doesn't Bahl just have to beat Brendan Smith for the 3rd spot to make the team anyways?

They just signed Brendan Smith to a 2 year deal. Bahl likely won't be allowed to beat him out right now. Possibly next year. I think he can still make the team as the 7th guy, but they might feel he's better served in the AHL another year than not being an every night player here for the NHL team.

And let's be serious here. I'm not a big fan of signing Smith and a lot of me would like to see Bahl make the NHL team over a guy like Smith, but thinking that he will is just more wishful thinking on our part.

It's just like how people thought Stephen Gionta would actually be a healthy scratch for his last few seasons here. Every year was finally the year that he'd be the 13th/14th forward and ultimately it just never happened. Same thing with the talk of McLeod potential being beaten out by a number of guys.

I'm not saying you're wrong to want Bahl to beat out Smith, but I do think it's short sighted and very wishful thinking to believe that he will or that they'll allow him to. They just signed Smith to a 2 year deal, so he's in almost all likelihood going to be a regular.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I apologize if I offended you with my harsh comment and forgot to tag you. My point wasn't who said what, but that all these player analyses are just one person's opinnion and I urge people to do their own research or at least keep an open mind for alternative takes and not blindly trust all reports. A lot of people also praised Ty Smith's skating so it's good to acknowledge that players do change and media/scouts/analysts do make mistakes.

A lot of prospect reports are also written in a certain 'this is the absolutely truth' kinda way, so my personality always wants to call out anyone who gave someone undeservedly negative feedback. Even though I'm almost always wrong myself.

So just keep doing you and don't mind the criticism, you're a real treasure to this subboard!

I totally agree with you that my opinions are just one of many, and people should read multiple draft analysts, certainly not just me. Don't worry, I'm not offended -- as a longtime NYC bartender I'm really tough to offend -- but I just appreciate a chance to respond. I didn't find your comments harsh at all, I just wanted to the ability to clarify my opinion on the difference between "taking a bad player" and "making a questionable pick" at the draft. Ben Baumgartner? That was taking a player with no chance at the NHL, and essentially burning a pick, and I said so at length. But Vilen? He was a good player, I just thought the Devils could have maximized the value better on the pick at the time. Looks like Vilen is proving me wrong, and I'm quite glad of the fact.

I enjoy your posts as well, and you're of great value to our awesome boards. Keep up the good work!

 

[StevenToddIves]

You need to do the prospect writing. Do you have any idea what could happen if you forced me to go to the main board to get my information? Friends don’t let friends get prospect information from people with axes to grind.

Yup the main boards can be crazy leading up to the draft. There were people who actually thought Kakko should be the Devils pick over Jack Hughes, which I thought was insane at the time but seems even more insane now. This is to say nothing of some of the vitriol against kids (kids!) we see on those pages. This year, you'd think Juraj Slafkovsky stole all of their girlfriends or boyfriends or something. That's why I limit my writing at HFBoards to the Devils threads, because I love you guys.

 

[devilsblood]

They just signed Brendan Smith to a 2 year deal. Bahl likely won't be allowed to beat him out right now. Possibly next year. I think he can still make the team as the 7th guy, but they might feel he's better served in the AHL another year than not being an every night player here for the NHL team.

And let's be serious here. I'm not a big fan of signing Smith and a lot of me would like to see Bahl make the NHL team over a guy like Smith, but thinking that he will is just more wishful thinking on our part.

It's just like how people thought Stephen Gionta would actually be a healthy scratch for his last few seasons here. Every year was finally the year that he'd be the 13th/14th forward and ultimately it just never happened. Same thing with the talk of McLeod potential being beaten out by a number of guys.

I'm not saying you're wrong to want Bahl to beat out Smith, but I do think it's short sighted and very wishful thinking to believe that he will or that they'll allow him to. They just signed Smith to a 2 year deal, so he's in almost all likelihood going to be a regular.

Smith is set to make $1 mil this season. If either Bahl or Ok are better then him I doubt the Devils will hold them back because of Smith.

McLeod as a young player is pretty much the opposite example of what you are saying. He’s also, as I’ve noted numerous times, used exclusively as a defensive fwd. Any player, veteran or otherwise, used in such a fashion would be hated by this board.

 

[Triumph]

Brendan Smith was signed to be the 7th D man, it's possible he's in the opening night lineup but the intention is, IMO, for one of Bahl or Okhotiuk to be in there.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Honestly, what percentage of games are all 5 (or 6) dmen ahead of bahl/okh gonna be healthy?

Those kind of guys tend to see NHL games, and usually more than a couple.

 

[Bleedred]

Smith is set to make $1 mil this season. If either Bahl or Ok are better then him I doubt the Devils will hold them back because of Smith.

McLeod as a young player is pretty much the opposite example of what you are saying. He’s also, as I’ve noted numerous times, used exclusively as a defensive fwd. Any player, veteran or otherwise, used in such a fashion would be hated by this board.

I don't have a problem with McLeod playing, that example was just something that I've noticed a few people having him as an extra forward heading into this season and I just don't think that will be a case, like him or not.

As I've said about McLeod just yesterday. He's more than fine for this year, but I can't say I'd want him for much more than what he's making right now and definitely not on a long term deal.

 

[devilsblood]

I don't have a problem with McLeod playing, that example was just something that I've noticed a few people having him as an extra forward heading into this season and I just don't think that will be a case, like him or not.

As I've said about McLeod just yesterday. He's more than fine for this year, but I can't say I'd want him for much more than what he's making right now and definitely not on a long term deal.

The off ice tarnishes everything with McLeod but in terms of on ice contributions id like to keep him around at a 4th liners salary.

 

[Bleedred]

The off ice tarnishes everything with McLeod but in terms of on ice contributions id like to keep him around at a 4th liners salary.

$1.2-$1.5 million a year is probably fine, but I wouldn’t wanna go much more than that.

And he definitely shouldn’t get more than 2 years. Which I think would bring him right to UFA anyway.

Most GM’s don’t sign these types with limited ceilings for more than 2 years anyway.

 

[Guttersniped]

They just signed Brendan Smith to a 2 year deal. Bahl likely won't be allowed to beat him out right now. Possibly next year. I think he can still make the team as the 7th guy, but they might feel he's better served in the AHL another year than not being an every night player here for the NHL team.

And let's be serious here. I'm not a big fan of signing Smith and a lot of me would like to see Bahl make the NHL team over a guy like Smith, but thinking that he will is just more wishful thinking on our part.

It's just like how people thought Stephen Gionta would actually be a healthy scratch for his last few seasons here. Every year was finally the year that he'd be the 13th/14th forward and ultimately it just never happened. Same thing with the talk of McLeod potential being beaten out by a number of guys.

I'm not saying you're wrong to want Bahl to beat out Smith, but I do think it's short sighted and very wishful thinking to believe that he will or that they'll allow him to. They just signed Smith to a 2 year deal, so he's in almost all likelihood going to be a regular.

Bahl has another year on his ELC so he should be in the AHL if he’s not playing.

He has a much better chance to make the team this year. Bahl was robbed of a real AHL season in 2020-21, he played in 27 scrimmage-like games in our practice facility plus the 7 NHL games he got. There’s an open spot for sure on defense but it has to be won.

We’ve always had depth defensemen and they’ve been extra defenseman literally all the time. Injuries and trades happen so they play. Sometimes they play really well in small spurts and earn their playing time, that can happen with tweeners.

Smith could end up buried in the AHL next season if necessary, that’s why he got 1.1m. I don’t know why depth freaks people out, literally every decent team has guys like this. He’s an experienced PKer, if there are injuries special teams become a problem.

I don’t remember the exact roster decisions from 8 years ago so I don’t the exact parallels with Gionta. I know everyone whines incessantly about 4th liners, but you can probably move on from him, half the team sucked then.

This team hasn’t buried prospects in the AHL much at all. Losing Studenic sucked *sob* but I don’t see guys getting criminally blocked. You can’t just “let the kids play” for the hell of it and that can’t be your only depth. No team functions that way.

I give up on the McLeod discussion, if people think we don’t need him they’re nuts (putting aside the Team Canada scandal debate train wreck which does complicate him).

 

[NjDevsRR]

Urbom.

I just sharted

 

[TheUnseenHand]

View attachment 587192

This is not a Dano meme.........

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Why do you think anyone expects “first round potential” out of a defenseman drafted in the late second round? Even still, i don’t know how to help you if you think a 22yo defenseman with no offense and 24 games of NHL experience is gonna play above Graves and Siegs next year. It’d be great if he got there at some point, but that’s not the question i was answering back when this started, and i wouldn’t bet on it anyway.

EDIT: I’m thinking maybe you meant first pair potential? If so, i definitely know there’s not a single quote from a Devils source confirming that’s what’s expected of Bahl. If he was widely considered to have that upside, he wouldn’t have been packaged with Nate Schnarr and a first round pick and whatever other spare change was traded for a few months of Taylor Hall.

Actually, confused Bahl's draft status with Nolan Foote.

However, at the time he was acquired he was one of the top defenseman in Canadian junior hockey, playing on the OHL's top team.

If that doesn't suggest a higher ceiling than guys who basically washed out elsewhere then that's on the Devils.

 

[Call Me Al]

no idea why people are writing off a 22 year old defenseman’s potential and use as a basis for comparison two defenseman who either didn’t play in the nhl before their age 22 season or didn’t show anything particularly special before their age 24 season.

players develop on curves, especially defensmen. it happens all the time, every year. it’s almost willfully ignorant to say that a player at 22 is never going to be x because you have no idea.

none of that is to say bahl is going to be better than siegenthaler or graves, but he certainly could be in a couple years

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

no idea why people are writing off a 22 year old defenseman’s potential and use as a basis for comparison two defenseman who either didn’t play in the nhl before their age 22 season or didn’t show anything particularly special before their age 24 season.

players develop on curves, especially defensmen. it happens all the time, every year. it’s almost willfully ignorant to say that a player at 22 is never going to be x because you have no idea.

I don’t think anyone’s writing Bahl off. All i said a few pages ago was not to expect more than third pairing minutes and average results from Bahl this year. I figured i was helping out a poster who was wondering if Bahl was worth a pickup in a fantasy league.

 

[Call Me Al]

fair enough, but it's a conversation that has been ongoing all offseason and more than one poster have commented on him not being anything. in that case though i agree with you he is not worth picking up for fantasy lol

 

[Stephen Gionta]

Might come off as insulting right now - but anyone who thinks Bahl is better than Okhotiuk is out to lunch.

Okhotiuk is better than Bahl at every aspect of hockey. besides height. That's it. He's faster, quicker, smarter, more mobile, more physical, you name it.