Prospect Info: Prospects and Marlies Thread: Marlies Calder Cup Champions Edition

[showtime8]

Hunter did an ok job and Dubas may do better ? I didn't like the Korshkov pick but Dermott and Grundstrom will look good for years.

I wonder if the only reason that people are down on Korshkov (myself included) is that there has been no mention of him from management or no sign from him in development camps or pre-season.

Grundstrom came over and played in the pre-season and then played at the end of the regular season & into playoffs.

Kinda weird how they're playing this with Korshkov.

 

[darrylsittler27]

One thing I have noticed over the years is new management has no allegiance to old regimes picks. The development of Johnsson, Kapanen,Grundstrom and even Engvall puts Korshkov in tough. He will need to have one hell of year on the Marlies. If as a 21 year old he doesn't impress he will become expendable.

 

[MyBudJT]

Don't know where this Korshkov hate is coming from, he's a better prospect than Bracco!

 

[hockeynorth]

One thing I have noticed over the years is new management has no allegiance to old regimes picks. The development of Johnsson, Kapanen,Grundstrom and even Engvall puts Korshkov in tough. He will need to have one hell of year on the Marlies. If as a 21 year old he doesn't impress he will become expendable.

Korshkov is playing in the KHL this year. Don't take a pro player for granted, we will have a very limited idea of how good he is on North American ice until AT LEAST the end of this season. The thing with Korshkov is he keeps taking 1 year deals, so he is clearly waiting on something (organization to be ready for him in the show?), if I had to guess, he plays Calder Cup playoffs this year and is a leaf next season. After next season, if he isn't even on the marlies, then he may not come ever. However, we have no idea what's going on, it's always a question if Russians come over, but maybe he just has no interest.

I wonder if the only reason that people are down on Korshkov (myself included) is that there has been no mention of him from management or no sign from him in development camps or pre-season.

Grundstrom came over and played in the pre-season and then played at the end of the regular season & into playoffs.

Kinda weird how they're playing this with Korshkov.

I'd guess his KHL team doesn't want him in North America until he is for sure gone.

 

[Boutette]

Don't know where this Korshkov hate is coming from, he's a better prospect than Bracco!

Korshkov might be better, but as long as he declines to play in NA, he's not really a prospect, he's a name on a piece of paper. Bracco is actually available and willing and, according to his coach, you know, the guy who won the Calder cup, bearing 'elite' level playmaking skills. I'll wait on Keefe's assesment of Korshkov before I call him a better prospect, thanks.

 

[darrylsittler27]

With me it isn't hate for Korshkov and I hope he does well but I see too many guys in front of him on wing. He may be better than Bracco but is he better than Johnsson, Kappanen , Grundstrom or even Engvall? Or is he another Leivo?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

With me it isn't hate for Korshkov and I hope he does well but I see too many guys in front of him on wing. He may be better than Bracco but is he better than Johnsson, Kappanen , Grundstrom or even Engvall? Or is he another Leivo?

Is that supposed to be a bad thing? I am pretty sure when the Leafs drafted Korshkov they are hoping he becomes much like what Leivo is expected to become.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Korshkov might be better, but as long as he declines to play in NA, he's not really a prospect, he's a name on a piece of paper. Bracco is actually available and willing and, according to his coach, you know, the guy who won the Calder cup, bearing 'elite' level playmaking skills. I'll wait on Keefe's assesment of Korshkov before I call him a better prospect, thanks.

He's not really declining to play in NA though. It's not like he has turned down requests to come over.

 

[MyBudJT]

With me it isn't hate for Korshkov and I hope he does well but I see too many guys in front of him on wing. He may be better than Bracco but is he better than Johnsson, Kappanen , Grundstrom or even Engvall? Or is he another Leivo?

I think with the way our roster will inevitably be built, we won't have the Johnssons and Kapanens for long... They're going to want raises that we won't afford due to the Matthews', Tavares', Marnerss and Nylanders whom will take up a signifant portion of our salary cap.

I expect to see a rotation of prospects coming in to fill in the depth positions, and hopefully one or two really breakout.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

I think with the way our roster will inevitably be built, we won't have the Johnssons and Kapanens for long... They're going to want raises that we won't afford due to the Matthews', Tavares', Marnerss and Nylanders whom will take up a signifant portion of our salary cap.

I expect to see a rotation of prospects coming in to fill in the depth positions, and hopefully one or two really breakout.

I think by the end of next year engvall will be a top six player. He will break out this season

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

He's not really declining to play in NA though. It's not like he has turned down requests to come over.

yeah I'm pretty sure he's only disinterested in playing for the Marlies. I still think he has NHL aspirations

 

[Boutette]

He's not really declining to play in NA though. It's not like he has turned down requests to come over.

yeah I'm pretty sure he's only disinterested in playing for the Marlies. I still think he has NHL aspirations

That's the problem, isn't it? That's his right, but it sure doesn't make him a good prospect in my books if he wants to be given a slot on the Big League roster, and not have to earn it like everyone else.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

That's the problem, isn't it? That's his right, but it sure doesn't make him a good prospect in my books if he wants to be given a slot on the Big League roster, and not have to earn it like everyone else.

I mean, he can develop in Russia and still work for an NHL roster spot. There's no rule that he has to play in the AHL, and if playing against men is what he finds to be best for him then it's fine with me

 

[MyBudJT]

That's the problem, isn't it? That's his right, but it sure doesn't make him a good prospect in my books if he wants to be given a slot on the Big League roster, and not have to earn it like everyone else.

His options:

Make 70K while living in a foriegn expensive city
or
Make 500K to play close to home in the world's second best league...

I'm guessing Korshkov's KHL salary, but its probably in that ballpark... Can't fault the guy for electing to develop closer to home. IIRC, Andreas Johnsson underwent a similar route, where he held off for a while before coming to NA.

 

[hockeynorth]

I'd almost want a player like him developing in the K then the A with our depth. I mean sure it'd be good to see how he'd do, however he's playing tougher competition (yes the KHL is the second best league) and he is only signing one year deals. If you use adjusted metrics, then Korshkov (age 21) would have put up 30 points in the NHL this season, or 56 points in the Ahl (if I did the math right). He will be 22 for the entirety of the next season, and at 22 (last season) AJ put up 47p in an AHL season. Korshkov is nearly two full years younger then AJ which is also something to remember. Also Korshkov supposedly got very limited PP time. If we take these adjusted numbers then Korshkov (with limited PP time) would have put up more points (players of note at age 21-23 F this year) than: Bennet, Virtanen, Vrana, Ritchie, Lehkonen, Compher, Jankowski, Copp, Cagiula, Connor Brown. He also would have been within ten points of: Meier, Kempe, Tuch, Perlini, Dvorak, Labanc, Wood, Bjorkstrand, Hartman, Wennberg, Anthanasiou, Hudon, Shore, and 5 million dollar man Tom Wilson. Oh, and statistically he was better last year, so take that as you chose. So, Yegor Korshkov is very much still a legitimate (and good) prospect. Remember, some of these guys are nearly three years older than him.

 

[Menzinger]

His options:

Make 70K while living in a foriegn expensive city
or
Make 500K to play close to home in the world's second best league...

I'm guessing Korshkov's KHL salary, but its probably in that ballpark... Can't fault the guy for electing to develop closer to home. IIRC, Andreas Johnsson underwent a similar route, where he held off for a while before coming to NA.

He holds all the cards, Unfortunately he could probably make far more in the KHL then as a depth winger in the NHL. The Leafs hope with him is that they can use the prestige of their league to get him to come over, but I’m not gonna hold my breath I think he was a pretty questionable pick

 

[SeaOfBlue]

He holds all the cards, Unfortunately he could probably make far more in the KHL then as a depth winger in the NHL. The Leafs hope with him is that they can use the prestige of their league to get him to come over, but I’m not gonna hold my breath I think he was a pretty questionable pick

Well depends. The guys at the latter end of the top 30 salaries in the league only make a little over $1 mill a year. If he is anything truly worthy of being in the NHL, he's making more than that here. The KHL is by far the second best paying league out there, but you are not picking KHL over NHL because of money. Either you are like Datsyuk and choose to play there despite taking a major cut in salary, or you are not good enough for the NHL which is the case for probably over 95% of them.

It does make sense to see him stick in the KHL before coming over to the NHL though. He probably makes a couple hundred thousand right now. Would not be making that in the AHL, even with a signing bonus. It's a bit easier to get Swedes over here because they do not make much more than typical AHLers do. Maybe a bit less as a rookie, although their salary bonus likely puts them pretty close to their Swedish salary, if not over it.

However, it is unknown whether his decision to not go through the AHL first will prevent him from ever making it to the NHL.

 

[hockeynorth]

Well depends. The guys at the latter end of the top 30 salaries in the league only make a little over $1 mill a year. If he is anything truly worthy of being in the NHL, he's making more than that here. The KHL is by far the second best paying league out there, but you are not picking KHL over NHL because of money. Either you are like Datsyuk and choose to play there despite taking a major cut in salary, or you are not good enough for the NHL which is the case for probably over 95% of them.

It does make sense to see him stick in the KHL before coming over to the NHL though. He probably makes a couple hundred thousand right now. Would not be making that in the AHL, even with a signing bonus. It's a bit easier to get Swedes over here because they do not make much more than typical AHLers do. Maybe a bit less as a rookie, although their salary bonus likely puts them pretty close to their Swedish salary, if not over it.

However, it is unknown whether his decision to not go through the AHL first will prevent him from ever making it to the NHL.

I think we see him in the NHL eventually. He probably tops out as a 45 point winger though. I can see him being Browns replacement eventually even, just numbers wise.

 

[Sweet Leaf]

I am pretty sure when the Leafs drafted Korshkov they are hoping he becomes much like what Leivo is expected to become.

The Leafs are hoping Korshkov becomes a fringe NHL player?

 

[4thline]

Korshkov's scoring hasn't been far off of Nichushkin's the last two years, and he's expected to step into The Stars' top 9 and contribute, Korshkov is a year younger and about the same size (though has some filling out to do). We have his rights for 5 more years, and are super deep at wing. Leave him in Russia to come over and contribute when he's ready. Next year he's still stuck with a two year elc so I could see him hold out for an (unlikely given our depth) guarantee, but after that he's got not much to gain from waiting.

 

[Boutette]

The Leafs are hoping Korshkov becomes a fringe NHL player?

Leivo's a fringe player for the same reason Kapanen and Johnsson are 4th liners on this team (but middle 6 on at least half the league otherwise). Do you expect Korshkov to be pencilled in over a Hyman, a Marleau, a JVR, a Kapanen and a Johnsson? And a couple years from now he'll also have to be better than Grunstrom and Engvall and Bracco and possibly Brooks, Marchment and Ferguson (who will be playing down the street) even as JVR and Marleau are gone. Its not impossible Korshkov will be seen as better, but perhaps a tall order given Toronto's winger depth unless trades are made. Yes he does have size, but so do a number of Marlies on impressive arcs of progress and seem far more willing to be 'Team Toronto' players.

 

[MyBudJT]

Leivo's a fringe player for the same reason Kapanen and Johnsson are 4th liners on this team (but middle 6 on at least half the league otherwise). Do you expect Korshkov to be pencilled in over a Hyman, a Marleau, a JVR, a Kapanen and a Johnsson? And a couple years from now he'll also have to be better than Grunstrom and Engvall and Bracco and possibly Brooks, Marchment and Ferguson (who will be playing down the street) even as JVR and Marleau are gone. Its not impossible Korshkov will be seen as better, but perhaps a tall order given Toronto's winger depth unless trades are made. Yes he does have size, but so do a number of Marlies on impressive arcs of progress and seem far more willing to be 'Team Toronto' players.

You’re acting like Marlies players will be getting some kind of preferential treatment.

Korshkov doesn’t HAVE to be a Marlie to become a Leaf... you’ve got guys like Borgman and Zaitsev that made this team straight from Europe...

You’re right In Saying he won’t be penciled in, but neither will this competition you speak of.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

You’re acting like Marlies players will be getting some kind of preferential treatment.

Korshkov doesn’t HAVE to be a Marlie to become a Leaf... you’ve got guys like Borgman and Zaitsev that made this team straight from Europe...

You’re right In Saying he won’t be penciled in, but neither will this competition you speak of.

Borgman was not good enough for the NHL, which is why he was sent back down to the AHL eventually. He's likely going to end up in the AHL next year too.

It's not that he has to go through the AHL first. Lindholm, Zaitsev and Ozhiganov likely won't be going through the AHL. However they were also pretty much 25 or 26 years old by the time they came here. If he goes through the AHL, he may not need to wait that long. If he does not, there is a good chance he is going to need to wait until he's 25 or 26 to make the Leafs. Nothing to do with preferential treatment as much as gaining enough development to be able to play at that level. Part of that development has to do with getting used to the ice.

 

[Boutette]

You’re acting like Marlies players will be getting some kind of preferential treatment.

Korshkov doesn’t HAVE to be a Marlie to become a Leaf... you’ve got guys like Borgman and Zaitsev that made this team straight from Europe...

You’re right In Saying he won’t be penciled in, but neither will this competition you speak of.

No, they won't be automatically pencilled in, but that 'preferential' treatment you speak of will be the ability for the Leafs to call up any of them to the Leafs at the drop of a hat for the opportunity to prove themselves at any time over the season. Not so for someone playing over in Russia. So, unlike Korshkov, a Marlie could get called up and maybe pull a Kapanen or a Johnsson and suddenly your Russian is pushed down the depth chart .instantly because he's locked away on the other side of the planet.

 

[4thline]

If Korshkov doesn't come over for Sept 2021 (or doesn't develop between now and then) I'll write him off. Until then he's huge potential boon to a team that will need cheap contributors on the wing. Anything before then is gravy because he really doesn't have any incentive to do it without a guaranteed NHL spot (which if he's not ready for there's no reason to bring him over)