Prospect Info: Prospects and Marlies Thread: Marlies Calder Cup Champions Edition

[Boutette]

Borgman was not good enough for the NHL, which is why he was sent back down to the AHL eventually. He's likely going to end up in the AHL next year too.

It's not that he has to go through the AHL first. Lindholm, Zaitsev and Ozhiganov likely won't be going through the AHL. However they were also pretty much 25 or 26 years old by the time they came here. If he goes through the AHL, he may not need to wait that long. If he does not, there is a good chance he is going to need to wait until he's 25 or 26 to make the Leafs. Nothing to do with preferential treatment as much as gaining enough development to be able to play at that level. Part of that development has to do with getting used to the ice.

Borgman was sent down because he was not as good as Dermott, who was just about the best 3rd line D in the league for his tenure and would have been an OK 2nd line D if Gardiner got injured or was moved. Just as Borgman was an OK 3rd line D. That was why Borgman was pushed down. All Ozhiganov needs to be what Babcock prefers over Carrick, just as Polak was. Is he better than Borgman, maybe, maybe not. But he's a RD, and that what is important about that particular conversation.

 

[Fogelhund]

These are the top 19 year old Defenders scoring, in the AHL. Something to perhaps judge Liljegren against this coming year.

Rk	Name	John Carlson	1990	D	2009‑10	48	4	35	39	26	37	1	0	1	0.083	0.729	0.813
2		Marek Malík	1975	D	1994‑95	58	11	30	41	91	-1	5	1	3	0.190	0.517	0.707
3		Rasmus Ristolainen	1994	D	2013‑14	34	6	14	20	22	-2	4	1		0.176	0.412	0.588
4		Radek Hamr	1974	D	1993‑94	69	10	26	36	44	-16	1	0	0	0.145	0.377	0.522
5		Jonathan Sigalet	1986	D	2005‑06	75	9	27	36	59	12	4	0	2	0.120	0.360	0.480
6		Julius Honka	1995	D	2014‑15	68	8	23	31	55	-10	3	0		0.118	0.338	0.456
7		Nick Leddy	1991	D	2010‑11	22	2	8	10	2	-7	0	0	0	0.091	0.364	0.455
8		Oliver Kylington	1997	D	2016‑17	60	6	21	27	22	3	0	0	2	0.100	0.350	0.450
9		Ladislav Šmíd	1986	D	2005‑06	71	3	25	28	48	14	3	0	1	0.042	0.352	0.394
10		Brent Burns	1985	D	2004‑05	73	11	16	27	57	-11	6	2	3	0.151	0.219	0.370

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Critical13]

These are the top 19 year old Defenders scoring, in the AHL. Something to perhaps judge Liljegren against this coming year.

Rk	Name	John Carlson	1990	D	2009‑10	48	4	35	39	26	37	1	0	1	0.083	0.729	0.813
2		Marek Malík	1975	D	1994‑95	58	11	30	41	91	-1	5	1	3	0.190	0.517	0.707
3		Rasmus Ristolainen	1994	D	2013‑14	34	6	14	20	22	-2	4	1		0.176	0.412	0.588
4		Radek Hamr	1974	D	1993‑94	69	10	26	36	44	-16	1	0	0	0.145	0.377	0.522
5		Jonathan Sigalet	1986	D	2005‑06	75	9	27	36	59	12	4	0	2	0.120	0.360	0.480
6		Julius Honka	1995	D	2014‑15	68	8	23	31	55	-10	3	0		0.118	0.338	0.456
7		Nick Leddy	1991	D	2010‑11	22	2	8	10	2	-7	0	0	0	0.091	0.364	0.455
8		Oliver Kylington	1997	D	2016‑17	60	6	21	27	22	3	0	0	2	0.100	0.350	0.450
9		Ladislav Šmíd	1986	D	2005‑06	71	3	25	28	48	14	3	0	1	0.042	0.352	0.394
10		Brent Burns	1985	D	2004‑05	73	11	16	27	57	-11	6	2	3	0.151	0.219	0.370

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Damn Carlson....0.813 ppg as a 19 year old is so impressive.

 

[Duke16]

The Dzierkals situation is interesting. He was good in the ECHL, but not to the point where he should get an ELC. His other options are AHL deal (probably no interest from his side) and Riga (he wants to stay in NA and Riga isn't the best spot). He may be forced to settle for an AHL deal or get traded. I remember hearing Nashville had interest at the 2015 Draft.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Why would Dzierkals have no interest of an AHL deal on his side? Well I do, he wants an ELC, but if he's not going to get one then why would he say no to an AHL deal?

I think he just cares more about making the AHL in general. Once he gets there it is not like the Leafs have not handed out ELC's to deserving AHL contract guys before (Froese, Marchment and Holl). The Marlies could easily offer him more salary than he would make on an ELC as well (per year).

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Any of our prospects playing in the summer showcase? I'm guessing no since no one has said anything about it.

 

[93LEAFS]

Any of our prospects playing in the summer showcase? I'm guessing no since no one has said anything about it.

None. Sandin out due to his coach deeming he needs rest. Pretty sure KHL pre-season is starting soon, so that has tied up Rasanen.

Not too shocking, we didn't draft anyone outside of Sandin who would be eligible for this with our first 4 of our first 5 picks (Only Stotts would be). Liljegren is a lock from last year, and Rasanen is in pre-season for a pro-team. I wish Scott got an invite, but he wasn't really worthy of one.

Not the end of the world, although it would be more enjoyable with us having some people there. No Sandin is disappointing, but its in his long-term best interest not to be there.

On a related note, Jokerit has their first pre-season game today at 11:30. I'm sure some of the internet savy people here can find a way to watch it.

 

[taurine330]

None. Sandin out due to his coach deeming he needs rest. Pretty sure KHL pre-season is starting soon, so that has tied up Rasanen.

Not too shocking, we didn't draft anyone outside of Sandin who would be eligible for this with our first 4 of our first 5 picks (Only Stotts would be). Liljegren is a lock from last year, and Rasanen is in pre-season for a pro-team. I wish Scott got an invite, but he wasn't really worthy of one.

Not the end of the world, although it would be more enjoyable with us having some people there. No Sandin is disappointing, but its in his long-term best interest not to be there.

On a related note, Jokerit has their first pre-season game today at 11:30. I'm sure some of the internet savy people here can find a way to watch it.

I wonder if that game is even televised as it is played in a smaller rink. Btw, Viktor lööv is there as well.

 

[Sweet Leaf]

Leivo's a fringe player for the same reason Kapanen and Johnsson are 4th liners on this team (but middle 6 on at least half the league otherwise). Do you expect Korshkov to be pencilled in over a Hyman, a Marleau, a JVR, a Kapanen and a Johnsson? And a couple years from now he'll also have to be better than Grunstrom and Engvall and Bracco and possibly Brooks, Marchment and Ferguson (who will be playing down the street) even as JVR and Marleau are gone. Its not impossible Korshkov will be seen as better, but perhaps a tall order given Toronto's winger depth unless trades are made. Yes he does have size, but so do a number of Marlies on impressive arcs of progress and seem far more willing to be 'Team Toronto' players.

Leivo is a fringe NHL player on any team.

 

[Obliviate]

Leivo is a fringe NHL player on any team.

Go read the article about Leivo on the Athletic. Might change your tune.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Kristians Rubens is the third signing by the Newfoundland Growlers. Seems like a solid addition. Super late 97', was a borderline draftable prospect a few years ago, big Latvian with bottom pairing upside. Was decent, but not amazing, in the WHL the past few years it seems. He'll be the 3rd LD for the Growlers probably, behind Jardine and LeBlanc.

Adam Holwell went with USports over the Growlers. I thought it would be a nice match given he is from St. John's and was invited to training camp by the Leafs.

Noah Carroll is still an option though. He did not look amazing from the scrimmages I saw, but he was a solid OHLer, did play for SSM the past year and a half, and he is not anything more than what Rubens was: bottom pairing/depth in the ECHL.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Leivo is a fringe NHL player on any team.

He's not even a fringe NHLer on our team. He could challenge for a spot on most teams' wing groups. If not win a spot on most teams' wing groups. The only exceptions are some teams like Winnipeg who have a lot of young wingers themselves that they may just default to their internal options.

 

[LaPlante94]

Go read the article about Leivo on the Athletic. Might change your tune.

Care to share a few important things said in that article? On my phone and don't subscribe to the Athletic even though im leaning towards doing it. Would like to know what they think of Leivo because I really like him.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

He's not even a fringe NHLer on our team. He could challenge for a spot on most teams' wing groups. If not win a spot on most teams' wing groups. The only exceptions are some teams like Winnipeg who have a lot of young wingers themselves that they may just default to their internal options.

“Could challenge for a spot on most teams” kind of translates to “is a fringe NHLer on most teams, and not an NHLer on the rest, which is slightly worse than “is a fringe NHLer on every team”.

I mean “could challenge for an NHL spot” is essentially the definition of fringe NHLer.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Care to share a few important things said in that article? On my phone and don't subscribe to the Athletic even though im leaning towards doing it. Would like to know what they think of Leivo because I really like him.

It establishes that Leivo's comparables have had tremendous success when given a proper chance. It then looks at what Leivo has done in the stretches where he's been given a bigger role than just as a fourth liner. It ends with pointing out that these are based on rather limited samples, but that there's good support for them being accurate to how he can impact the game.

I'd like to say that it's a terrific article, but I don't know how much value you can put in my recommendation given that I've been a vocal Leivo supporter for a year now.

 

[LaPlante94]

It establishes that Leivo's comparables have had tremendous success when given a proper chance. It then looks at what Leivo has done in the stretches where he's been given a bigger role than just as a fourth liner. It ends with pointing out that these are based on rather limited samples, but that there's good support for them being accurate to how he can impact the game.

I'd like to say that it's a terrific article, but I don't know how much value you can put in my recommendation given that I've been a vocal Leivo supporter for a year now.

Would love to see him on the 3rd line with Kadri. Even though I do think his and Tavares play styles could mesh well and dominate down low in the offensive zone with their big bodies and good puck protection. Leivo is a workhorse like Babcock likes but idk if he plans on putting Marleau on the LW to keep him with Marner

 

[Joey Hoser]

Leivo is a fringe NHL player on any team.

How would you even know? Guy hasn't played in two years.

 

[Paneerboy]

How would you even know? Guy hasn't played in two years.

Not playing in two years is usually a good indication of being a fringe player

 

[Obliviate]

Care to share a few important things said in that article? On my phone and don't subscribe to the Athletic even though im leaning towards doing it. Would like to know what they think of Leivo because I really like him.

Basically show comparison of Leivo to players like Marchessault and Haula and ow they were not given decent opportunities and how they performed when thrust into action on other teams. A lot of statistical parallels.

BTW, the Atlantic is worth the money. It's refreshing professional sports coverage for fans.

 

[saltming]

Basically show comparison of Leivo to players like Marchessault and Haula and ow they were not given decent opportunities and how they performed when thrust into action on other teams. A lot of statistical parallels.

BTW, the Atlantic is worth the money. It's refreshing professional sports coverage for fans.

Interesting but wasn't Leivo exposed and also passed over by Vegas?

 

[Menzinger]

Interesting but wasn't Leivo exposed and also passed over by Vegas?

No, the Leafs opted to protect him:

 

[saltming]

No, the Leafs opted to protect him:

Make the riding of the pine even more perplexing

 

[Knies iT]

Would love to see him on the 3rd line with Kadri. Even though I do think his and Tavares play styles could mesh well and dominate down low in the offensive zone with their big bodies and good puck protection. Leivo is a workhorse like Babcock likes but idk if he plans on putting Marleau on the LW to keep him with Marner

Such an overlooked point. Tavares and Vanek scorched the league when they played together because JT meshes so well with crafty net front players. It's the same reason that Garth Snow was tied to JVR rumours for 2-3 years and inevitably brought in Andrew Ladd (failed experiment).

The only downside to this is that it comes at the expense of Johnsson in the top 9.

 

[Kiwi]

Make the riding of the pine even more perplexing

Not really

I'd put that more into the Babcock's going to do what Babcock's going to do and **** the front office, they might like and value Leivo but the guy that puts the players on the ice doesn't

 

[SeaOfBlue]

“Could challenge for a spot on most teams” kind of translates to “is a fringe NHLer on most teams, and not an NHLer on the rest, which is slightly worse than “is a fringe NHLer on every team”.

I mean “could challenge for an NHL spot” is essentially the definition of fringe NHLer.

By that definition Johnsson is also a fringe NHL guy and nobody complains about him.