Prospect Info: Prospect and Marlies Thread: 2017 - 2018 (continued) Part II

[67Cup]

I agree with the posters that say the Marlies will continue to rotate players in the playoffs. But just as a little mental exercise, who would they play in a hypothetical game seven? I’m going to cross my fingers and say Kapanen etc won’t be available because the Leafs are still playing.


Here are my guesses:
Forwards
The experienced core: Smith, Mueller, Aaltonen, Greening
Special teams aces and special teams matter a lot in the playoffs: Bracco on the pp. Gauthier on the pk
Because he’s the top forward prospect in the organization: Grundstrom
Here’s where it gets tougher...
Two way game with plus skating: Moore
Because the top snipers from the season are with the Leafs so the Marlies need someone to bury the chances the setup guys create: Engvall
Size, grit and some scoring ability: Marchment
Productive at the end of the season: Timashov
Also productive late in the season with some positional versatility: Brooks

But experience and playoff grit may say Baun or Clune, for all I know.

Defense
Handedness may not matter as much to Keefe as to Babcock but it does work out evenly

LHD: Marincin, Borgmann, Rosen
RHD: Holl, Loverde, Liljegren

And Sparks in net.

 

[Boutette]

My point still stands. Timashov, Gauthier and Moore are still developing, and have far better shots at the NHL than Ferguson does... Especially considering all three are at least a year or two younger than Ferguson. Ferguson did some nice things in a very small stretch of games, but it was just a small stretch of games. Against some weaker competition too. Timashov had 4 points in his last 5 games, and 6 in the last 6. Moore had 7 points in his last 5 games. Gauthier with Greening is about as good as it got in the AHL in terms of shutdown lines.

As much as you like Timashov and Moore, they are both 5'10" wingers (of which we are awash) who's development has stalled. 2 full years in the AHL and neither of them have managed more than 0.5ppt in the AHL. IMHO, both Marchment and Bracco have already shot past these two in the depth charts soon to be joined by Grundstrom, Engvall and Korshkov. The Leafs know by now what they have in these two and they aren't cracking the Leafs lineup, not if they can't score and don't have any size. Gauthier may be a great 4th liner, but he's a 4th liner in the AHL and he's shown little improvement in 3 years. If any of these three have any sort of NHL career beyond this point, its not going to be with Toronto. The two advantages Ferguson has is that he's not tiny and he's a center who has offensive talent. These are attributes Toronto desperately lacks in its prospect list. If I was running the team, I'd want to know what Ferguson has got. The playoffs are a great crucible to see if he has what it takes (as we've seen with Grundstrom and Johnsson in previous years and will also see Egvall this year).

 

[ULF_55]

I hadn't realized Lindgren was only 20.

Must be a little tough coming over this time of year as a 20 year old playing on the small ice for the first time.

Hope he's getting fan support.

And Grundstrom is the youngest forward, turned 20 in December, so you'd think he's still got some man strength to come.

 

[Duke16]

I'd tweak the forwards a little like this:

Johnsson - Aaltonen - Kapanen
Grundstrom - Ferguson - Bracco
Engvall - Greening - Smith
Marchment - Mueller - Brooks

We've already had a season of stagnation from Gauthier, Timashov and Moore to know they likely aren't in our future plans. However, Ferguson has been the best ATO performer (nearly ppg), Engvall has been an awesome surprise, and Brooks has performed better on the wing, so give him the conditions where he can thrive before returning him to center. That forward line up would probably be capable of outplaying some NHL rosters with its combination of size, speed, sniping and playmaking as well as defensive acumen.

Timashov should not be counted out yet. He had 10 more points in 4 more games this year. Not spectacular, but still an improvement which is promising since he has a fairly limited role. He is still only 21. Moore on the other hand had 33 points once again, but in more games. Being 23 already your point stands for Moore for sure. Moore is such a weird player because he looks way better than his stat line indicates.

Anyways, I still see both being in the Playoff lineup

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Timashov should not be counted out yet. He had 10 more points in 4 more games this year. Not spectacular, but still an improvement which is promising since he has a fairly limited role. He is still only 21. Moore on the other hand had 33 points once again, but in more games. Being 23 already your point stands for Moore for sure. Moore is such a weird player because he looks way better than his stat line indicates.

Anyways, I still see both being in the Playoff lineup

Yeah and I would also add that those numbers are good for 5th and 6th on the team in scoring. The guys ahead of him are the main top line (Johnsson, Aaltonen, Smith) and their main center (Mueller). So they are in the spot they are supposed to be in.

 

[67Cup]

Timashov should not be counted out yet. He had 10 more points in 4 more games this year. Not spectacular, but still an improvement which is promising since he has a fairly limited role. He is still only 21. Moore on the other hand had 33 points once again, but in more games. Being 23 already your point stands for Moore for sure. Moore is such a weird player because he looks way better than his stat line indicates.

Anyways, I still see both being in the Playoff lineup

You’re right about the way Moore looks. The eye test says he is one of the best forwards on the Marlies, but his production did slip this year just as you say. He reminds me a bit of Byron Froese who was something of a late bloomer with respect to point production in the AHL but always looked impressive. Maybe fourth liner on a weak team represents Moore’s upside also. However, I always enjoy watching Moore play.

 

[Duke16]

Just a random point, but I think a lot of people overrate Andreas Borgman. Personally, I don't think he skates very well (probably average), can make some stupid mistakes with the puck/botch breakouts and he puts himself out of position in an attempt to lay the body. I think he has quite a few things to figure out before he earns his place in the lineup, but I do think he will make it. I would honestly pencil Rosen in before him to start next season. Rosen has really figured it out in the past few months and is playing with a lot of confidence, which Keefe instills in him. Not to mention, he is an elite skater, so he fits the mould of our defense core and he defends pretty well.

 

[Keon1963]

Just a random point, but I think a lot of people overrate Andreas Borgman. Personally, I don't think he skates very well (probably average), can make some stupid mistakes with the puck/botch breakouts and he puts himself out of position in an attempt to lay the body. I think he has quite a few things to figure out before he earns his place in the lineup, but I do think he will make it. I would honestly pencil Rosen in before him to start next season. Rosen has really figured it out in the past few months and is playing with a lot of confidence, which Keefe instills in him. Not to mention, he is an elite skater, so he fits the mould of our defense core and he defends pretty well.

Thank you for the report.

 

[Rich247]

Why do you think I'm down on him?
I don't coach him so I have nothing to do with him not getting playing time.
You even repeated what I said, give him top minutes and see where he is next year at this time. Now if the coach doesn't think he deserves top line minutes perhaps you should have a beef with the coach.
Again, it is too early to suggest Bracco is worthy of a NHL job, but that applies to almost every AHL player even player who are better and produce better than Bracco.
He hasn't earned anything except an opportunity to continue to develop.
Many AHL players never make it, he has to separate himself from the pack, and he'll have that opportunity next year.

Because you say things like he isn't a top level player by any imagination. You indicate that he was 36th in scoring for all rookies and not in the top 150 scorers in the ahl. Tell me how many of those rookies had 32points in only 50 games? How many played equal or less minutes in the beginning of the year then Braccos? How many played on the fourth line most of the year? How many of those players make the players around them better? Just want to point out that scoring isn't the only thing that make great hockey players. Also coach is not known for playing rookies where other teams play them a lot because they have no others to play. Please tell me your not down on the kid for some other reason?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Just a random point, but I think a lot of people overrate Andreas Borgman. Personally, I don't think he skates very well (probably average), can make some stupid mistakes with the puck/botch breakouts and he puts himself out of position in an attempt to lay the body. I think he has quite a few things to figure out before he earns his place in the lineup, but I do think he will make it. I would honestly pencil Rosen in before him to start next season. Rosen has really figured it out in the past few months and is playing with a lot of confidence, which Keefe instills in him. Not to mention, he is an elite skater, so he fits the mould of our defense core and he defends pretty well.

I've been harsh on him from the beginning. I see much of the same thing. He's not NHL ready. Wasn't at the beginning of the year, and really isn't any better right now. He needs a full season, untouched, to get used to North America and learn the PK. I think he can get there, but he was rushed into the NHL. People were enamored with a lot of offensive potential and physicality with skill he showed up in the NHL, and he has huge potential, but besides a little bit more defensive refinement (which could easily just be due to the being nearly 1.5 years older), he's not much different than someone like Nielsen (and we all know how people feel about Nielsen). There were some nights I actually think Nielsen outperformed Borgman when I watched both.

We will see him in the playoffs, but there are 4 defensemen on each side of the ice. Borgman is going to have to perform well every night if he doesn't want to lose his spot from Rosen or Nielsen (since Marincin 100% will not lose it) or even Dermott if he ever shows up. Right side will be Liljegren, Holl and LoVerde 100%. Maybe Rosen or Marincin swap over for a few games if we want someone like Borgman in over LoVerde, and I do hope Lindgren gets a chance to redeem himself a little bit after a rough first few games with the Marlies, but they'll probably stick with those 3 most of the time.

On a separate note, Ferguson did not make the 24 man roster. Only ATO's that did were Engvall and Lindgren, which makes sense because Engvall has earned an ELC and Lindgren is an extra RD with the most potential out of anyone we invited (unless you count Scott). It'll be interesting to see if the Marlies bring him back on an AHL deal, because he could be the 4C for next year. Gauthier is a good bet to make the NHL next year on some team, or as a depth forward on the Leafs, so someone will have to replace him. Aaltonen as well potentially.

Lastly, Kaskisuo is still on the Chicago Wolves and just lead them from being the worst team in the AHL when he got there to the best team in the West. Dansk was also very good, but Kaskisuo played 28 games with a .914 .SVV% (22nd in league with 10+ games) and a 2.33 GAA (12th in league for goalies with 10+ games). He was in the .920's and had a top 5 GAA guy for most of the year. Jury is still out on whether or not the Leafs tender him an offer for next year, but the Marlies will likely need to replace both Sparks and Pickard next year, and if he's putting up those sorts of numbers on Chicago, he could easily be top 5 or 10 in each of those categories next year if he's the number 1 on the Marlies. I hope he starts and does well in the playoffs because that could be the determining factor (plus I would love to see the Marlies and Wolves face off in the finals with Leafs' owned goalies going at it against each other) for a contract from us next year. Who knows, maybe he is the guy to replace McElhinney after next year?

 

[Duke16]

I've been harsh on him from the beginning. I see much of the same thing. He's not NHL ready. Wasn't at the beginning of the year, and really isn't any better right now. He needs a full season, untouched, to get used to North America and learn the PK. I think he can get there, but he was rushed into the NHL. People were enamored with a lot of offensive potential and physicality with skill he showed up in the NHL, and he has huge potential, but besides a little bit more defensive refinement (which could easily just be due to the being nearly 1.5 years older), he's not much different than someone like Nielsen (and we all know how people feel about Nielsen). There were some nights I actually think Nielsen outperformed Borgman when I watched both.

We will see him in the playoffs, but there are 4 defensemen on each side of the ice. Borgman is going to have to perform well every night if he doesn't want to lose his spot from Rosen or Nielsen (since Marincin 100% will not lose it) or even Dermott if he ever shows up. Right side will be Liljegren, Holl and LoVerde 100%. Maybe Rosen or Marincin swap over for a few games if we want someone like Borgman in over LoVerde, and I do hope Lindgren gets a chance to redeem himself a little bit after a rough first few games with the Marlies, but they'll probably stick with those 3 most of the time.

On a separate note, Ferguson did not make the 24 man roster. Only ATO's that did were Engvall and Lindgren, which makes sense because Engvall has earned an ELC and Lindgren is an extra RD with the most potential out of anyone we invited (unless you count Scott). It'll be interesting to see if the Marlies bring him back on an AHL deal, because he could be the 4C for next year. Gauthier is a good bet to make the NHL next year on some team, or as a depth forward on the Leafs, so someone will have to replace him. Aaltonen as well potentially.

Lastly, Kaskisuo is still on the Chicago Wolves and just lead them from being the worst team in the AHL when he got there to the best team in the West. Dansk was also very good, but Kaskisuo played 28 games with a .914 .SVV% (22nd in league with 10+ games) and a 2.33 GAA (12th in league for goalies with 10+ games). He was in the .920's and had a top 5 GAA guy for most of the year. Jury is still out on whether or not the Leafs tender him an offer for next year, but the Marlies will likely need to replace both Sparks and Pickard next year, and if he's putting up those sorts of numbers on Chicago, he could easily be top 5 or 10 in each of those categories next year if he's the number 1 on the Marlies. I hope he starts and does well in the playoffs because that could be the determining factor (plus I would love to see the Marlies and Wolves face off in the finals with Leafs' owned goalies going at it against each other) for a contract from us next year. Who knows, maybe he is the guy to replace McElhinney after next year?

I wasn't going to say it before, but you're right. Not much separates Nielsen and Borgman, but I would say Nielsen is a worse skater but a better offensive player. Borgman should be the better player once fully adjusted though.

 

[Boutette]

On a separate note, Ferguson did not make the 24 man roster. Only ATO's that did were Engvall and Lindgren, which makes sense because Engvall has earned an ELC and Lindgren is an extra RD with the most potential out of anyone we invited (unless you count Scott). It'll be interesting to see if the Marlies bring him back on an AHL deal, because he could be the 4C for next year. Gauthier is a good bet to make the NHL next year on some team, or as a depth forward on the Leafs, so someone will have to replace him. Aaltonen as well potentially.

Lastly, Kaskisuo is still on the Chicago Wolves and just lead them from being the worst team in the AHL when he got there to the best team in the West. Dansk was also very good, but Kaskisuo played 28 games with a .914 .SVV% (22nd in league with 10+ games) and a 2.33 GAA (12th in league for goalies with 10+ games). He was in the .920's and had a top 5 GAA guy for most of the year. Jury is still out on whether or not the Leafs tender him an offer for next year, but the Marlies will likely need to replace both Sparks and Pickard next year, and if he's putting up those sorts of numbers on Chicago, he could easily be top 5 or 10 in each of those categories next year if he's the number 1 on the Marlies. I hope he starts and does well in the playoffs because that could be the determining factor (plus I would love to see the Marlies and Wolves face off in the finals with Leafs' owned goalies going at it against each other) for a contract from us next year. Who knows, maybe he is the guy to replace McElhinney after next year?

It will be interesting to see what happens with the NCAA ATOs, as several of them appear to have performed well and the Leafs will need to do some minor restocking with the Marlies and major restocking of their ECHL franshise as it moves to St. John's. As the Wolves are potentially a Calder Cup contender I'm hoping we get to see Kasisuo if we meet them in the finals.

 

[taurine330]

It will be interesting to see what happens with the NCAA ATOs, as several of them appear to have performed well and the Leafs will need to do some minor restocking with the Marlies and major restocking of their ECHL franshise as it moves to St. John's. As the Wolves are potentially a Calder Cup contender I'm hoping we get to see Kasisuo if we meet them in the finals.

I forgot about Kaskisuo. Is he still on loan or?

 

[Lil Tuzzi Bert]

Moore really started to get going this year when guys like Johnsson, Kappy and Rachel were either called up or moved. When he started getting ice time he started producing well.

 

[StuckOutHere]

My understanding, and I could be just misremembering something, but in Finland he played on something equal to or close to NHL size ice.

I hadn't realized Lindgren was only 20.

Must be a little tough coming over this time of year as a 20 year old playing on the small ice for the first time.

Hope he's getting fan support.

And Grundstrom is the youngest forward, turned 20 in December, so you'd think he's still got some man strength to come.

 

[Duke16]

Kaskisuo wants to come back to Toronto, but it's nothing definite. Still on loan.

 

[showtime8]

It will be interesting to see what happens with the NCAA ATOs, as several of them appear to have performed well and the Leafs will need to do some minor restocking with the Marlies and major restocking of their ECHL franshise as it moves to St. John's. As the Wolves are potentially a Calder Cup contender I'm hoping we get to see Kasisuo if we meet them in the finals.

It would be funny for the Marlies to call Kaskisuo back from loan if they meet in the finals. Like sorry we don't want to face him. The Wolves would be like ????

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Well, Dermott just graduated.

Rasanen had a season I’d classify as “fine”. Wanted to see a bit more dominance. He was better in the playoffs.

Gordeev has had scouts buzzing this year. He took a good step forward offensively. It sucks he’s stuck in Flint. Hopefully someone looks to acquire him for next season.

Greenway is a guy some love and some hate.

So there’s potential there. Rielly is still young. Same with Zaitsev and Gardiner.

Yes, there's also Rasanen. Hope he becomes a solid NHL defender. Seems like you need several guys in the pipeline and hope that a couple make the transition and become solid NHL players and contributors. The trade and UFA alternatives are quite expensive, so having a bountiful pipeline of draft pick prospects seems like the best method. Some may feel like everything is already in place, but I can't help but feel that our blueline needs more attention.

Changing topics, on top of a very good regular season, VGK have been good in the playoffs as well. It would be certainly very interesting and a big story if they went on to win the Cup.

 

[4thline]

Timashov should not be counted out yet. He had 10 more points in 4 more games this year. Not spectacular, but still an improvement which is promising since he has a fairly limited role. He is still only 21. Moore on the other hand had 33 points once again, but in more games. Being 23 already your point stands for Moore for sure. Moore is such a weird player because he looks way better than his stat line indicates.

Anyways, I still see both being in the Playoff lineup

Nice post. Ruling these guys out reeks of box score scouting. While neither had the production explosion hoped for, both look like NHL players- especially Moore. He's a very impactful player through 195 feet of ice. Smart, fast, good hands and puck movement, always involved and hungry. Doesn't have the upside of a Bracco but I bet would be way higher on the call up list currently.

 

[Duke16]

Nice post. Ruling these guys out reeks of box score scouting. While neither had the production explosion hoped for, both look like NHL players- especially Moore. He's a very impactful player through 195 feet of ice. Smart, fast, good hands and puck movement, always involved and hungry. Doesn't have the upside of a Bracco but I bet would be way higher on the call up list currently.

Moore is a puck magnet every time I watch

 

[ULF_55]

My understanding, and I could be just misremembering something, but in Finland he played on something equal to or close to NHL size ice.

SM-liiga - Wikipedia

Looks like they use wider than NHL arena's.

NHL 200 x 85

Finnish:
197 x 92
197 x 95
197 x 98

 

[ULF_55]

Because you say things like he isn't a top level player by any imagination. You indicate that he was 36th in scoring for all rookies and not in the top 150 scorers in the ahl. Tell me how many of those rookies had 32points in only 50 games? How many played equal or less minutes in the beginning of the year then Braccos? How many played on the fourth line most of the year? How many of those players make the players around them better? Just want to point out that scoring isn't the only thing that make great hockey players. Also coach is not known for playing rookies where other teams play them a lot because they have no others to play. Please tell me your not down on the kid for some other reason?

To be a top level player he has to produce like one, and let's be honest here he hasn't. Come on man, you can't make 32 points more by wishing on it. Bracco is not going to be a defensive forward. He may play on the 4th. line to start his career, but he that won't be his forte.

Now, having said that perhaps he didn't get the opportunity to earn more points because the coach didn't put him into a position to get more points. Perhaps the coach is the problem?

Let's revisit this next year.

 

[4thline]

Moore is a puck magnet every time I watch

Yup, and damn good in transition. At the NHL level to me he projects as a less physical but better puck skills Hyman type puck hound support winger.

Food for thought: His two "stagnant" AHL seasons came at the same at the same age as Hyman's Junior and Senior seasons at Michigan, and were just as good as Hyman's Marlies year.

 

[NCoRe]

Lets give this guy a chance and sign him to an AHL deal. Our C depth is really Bad and i really believe on this guy.

Tomas Soustal

 

[saltming]

Yup, and damn good in transition. At the NHL level to me he projects as a less physical but better puck skills Hyman type puck hound support winger.

Food for thought: His two "stagnant" AHL seasons came at the same at the same age as Hyman's Junior and Senior seasons at Michigan, and were just as good as Hyman's Marlies year.

Hyman's physical game is really paying off especially in the playoffs so if Moore lacks that, and I agree, what role would he play on the leafs squad?