GWT: Premier League Match day 29

[Live in the Now]

If you want to argue Chelsea can't play with Manchester City, fine. But they spent a ton of money this summer and should be able to. They sent a few players out, but they also spent 235 million gross. Only one of the players they sold (Matic) was a part of their actual team, the rest were players that never played there. And look, if Liverpool can take it to City with a team that didn't have their biggest signing, Chelsea should be able to play football with them as well.

Teams that spend lots of money have to be able to go play football. That should be everyone's minimum standard of these teams.

 

[Power Man]

Pedro was terribad.
Conte is trying to get sacked

 

[davemess]

. Only one of the players they sold (Matic) was a part of their actual team, the rest were players that never played there..

You are forgetting Costa.

Chelsea's summer transfer business was dreadful.

Bakayoko & Drinkwater are a downgrade from Matic.

Morata is a downgrade from Costa.

Christensen & Rüdiger replacing Cahill & Luiz is probably a long term upgrade but is at best a wash right now if not a minor downgrade (considering how well that unit working last year).

The other guys that have come in are all depth players - Zappacosta, Barkley

To me Chelsea got worse over the summer and had the extra Champions League games to add to last year. Its no wonder they aren't up to snuff this year.


That being said, none of that is an excuse for todays inept display.

 

[Havre]

I would say that is taking it a bit far saying "no wonder".

Christensen and Rudiger are replacing players because of injuries or Conte thinking they are better. So can´t see how you can argue that has anything to do with the transfer window.

Even if I agree with Matic being better he is hardly a sensational football impossible to replace. Had some good games for Utd, but he has also been average for a lot of games.

Costa was always going to be difficult to replace. I never understood the fee Morata went for, but not like they had a million options to go for. Maybe they had the best one on the bench......

Fully agree the window was bad. Don´t agree they shouldn´t still be better. Spurs lost Walker. Alderweireld injured for most of the season. Rose hardly playing. The rest are more or less the same, but they are playing far far better football than Chelsea (even if Chelsea could still catch them). To me Conte looks a bit lost and the players have started to settle into something they shouldn´t. They are behaving like spoilt children.

 

[YNWA14]

I was in the camp that Bakayoko would be a good signing for Chelsea and would make losing Matic negligible but that was very far off. They miss him a lot.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Any offensive chances we might have had were nullified by brutal play from Pedro and poor strategy from Conte by going for the false-9 again. Playing Hazard up front makes sense when our strikers are injured. It doesn't when we have two on the bench.

Our summer business was f***ing woeful. Losing Costa was always gonna be a mistake, we should've gone for Belotti over Morata, we shouldn't have needed to sell Matic to buy Bakayoko, and we needed to upgrade on Moses. The only good moves we did this summer were bringing back Christensen and signing Rudiger.

My ideal and at least slightly realistic summer wishlist is Isco, Pastore, and Belotti. Switch to a 4-3-3 under a new manager.

Hazard - Belotti/Morata - Willian/Pastore
Isco - Fabregas
Kante
Alonso - Christensen - Rudiger/Luiz - Azpilicueta
Courtois

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I was really embarrassed as a Chelsea fan watching that. That was a disgraceful performance.

They were just strolling around. City got a win handed to them. Chelsea weren't resisting.

 

[Chimaera]

I mean, they have a few players who can go forward, but they're often being asked to basically play near their back line. If Willian is lining up more like a wing back than an attacking player, something's wrong. If Victor Moses (improvement or not) is playing significant minutes, and providing some of your offensive attack, you have problems. They've never really been a side blessed with pace, and right now, the EPL is a pace league. Spurs, City, Liverpool all win with pace. For all Jose's faults, he still has some offensive players who can get up and down the pitch (though whether that's his personal goal is a bit of a debate)

I know it's not really Conte's style, but the plodding Serie A, park the bus doesn't really win matches against a team as dynamic in attack as City. They're too good, and if you don't have the talent to punish them on the counter, you might as well just pack up shop. Throw in that Chelsea basically won't win without Kante in the middle.

They do hold some culpability for who they bought this summer. They didn't buy clear upgrades, and they didn't add support to what was already a thin squad. Some of that's due to Chelsea maybe not being willing to spend what it might take (as Roman's easing up on his investment others are spending more) and some of that is some question of the board in buying who Conte wanted. I don't blame them for having some questions, as he seemed to want some of the players he got, but they're not completely setup for long term success in the league.



As for the asked question of which job Ancelotti wants? If I'm him, neither. Chelsea, you're just as likely to get whacked by November as you are to win anything. Arsenal's a 2-3 season project. I don't think it's impossible for them to improve next season with no CL to worry about, but they've got the Europa to play in. Minimum that means they're going to pickup some injuries they don't want, or log some miles they would rather avoid. They'll have enough attack to beat up on some mediocre sides, but what can they attract with medium investment?

 

[Chimaera]

The guy after Wenger is very likely to fail massively. That's happened at every other big club. Bears pointing out that the media is already all over Mkhitaryan for playing poorly and one of the things expected of any new manager will be to not sign anyone in any attacking position (because look at the wages for the attackers already there) and get them playing great football again. They also lost 50 mil in CL revenue for not getting to R16 this year and will lose 50 mil again for not doing it next year. No idea what impact that will have on their budget, but that was money Wenger had to play with in the market that is no longer there.

As far as players poor form goes, it could turn out that Wenger simply no longer has standards. Mkhitaryan said something about the atmosphere at Arsenal being better for players than Manchester United's. Well look at the table if you think what he said is relevant to a team being successful in any way at all. Klopp talks about how Liverpool's squad gets along too well and he needs to find a way to get them angry about something.

I think it's probable whoever comes after will fail, but I do think there's enough talent that they could be decent. The question is more what exactly is the ceiling for Arsenal? Are they going to win the title in two or three years? Is being in the CL each season enough? What's the goal? At Liverpool, like it or not, the goal is winning the EPL. Winning a CL would be nice. But supporters know what the goal is. If they aren't there, or don't look like they're going to be there in a couple of seasons, there's going to be moaning. If you're Arsenal, what's the objective? I think a manger with the expectations of getting back in the CL, it's feasible. But if they spend 100-150 million, the parade route's gonna be planned in August.

On the Mkhitaryan quote, I think some of that stems for the basic fact that Jose is a jerk and made him his whipping boy for most of the time he was there. And for the Klopp part, I wouldn't be shocked if there's something to that in letting Coutinho go. Get the players all pumped up to show everyone how little they really needed him. It's no wonder that Mane and some of the others have turned on as soon as he went.

 

[S E P H]

I am not surprised in the slightest.

LOL at Kolasinac's body cheque, that is better than half of the hits you see in hockey. And didn't even get a single card to boot, what a clean hit.

Just keep the losses coming, we're close to the breaking point.

 

[Cassano]

Any offensive chances we might have had were nullified by brutal play from Pedro and poor strategy from Conte by going for the false-9 again. Playing Hazard up front makes sense when our strikers are injured. It doesn't when we have two on the bench.

Our summer business was ****ing woeful. Losing Costa was always gonna be a mistake, we should've gone for Belotti over Morata, we shouldn't have needed to sell Matic to buy Bakayoko, and we needed to upgrade on Moses. The only good moves we did this summer were bringing back Christensen and signing Rudiger.

My ideal and at least slightly realistic summer wishlist is Isco, Pastore, and Belotti. Switch to a 4-3-3 under a new manager.

Hazard - Belotti/Morata - Willian/Pastore
Isco - Fabregas
Kante
Alonso - Christensen - Rudiger/Luiz - Azpilicueta
Courtois

Zouma?

 

[S E P H]

The worst thing that can happen to Liverpool right now is to have competent goalkeeping. You have Mignolet who we all agree is dreadful, but then have a meh unknown backup goalkeeper in Karius. Loris has shown he is more competent than anything else Pool has, but that above-average ability might realistically sway the Liverpool front office and Klopp to prevent buying a WC goalkeeper in the summer. Would any of you lot actually trust Karius to start in a CL Final game? I know if I was a Red fan I wouldn't and why this could sabotage them for the future...

Keep in mind who owns Arsenal.

Sure, until you realise that Arsenal is the best job a manager can have -- not worrying about getting fired for 20 years while making a couple million is pure ecstasy.

 

[Chimaera]

I don't think what Karius does have a ton of influence on whether or not they buy a keeper this summer. I think they're going to target Alisson whether or not Karius plays great.

While I think the club might not want to spend a mint to get a top level keeper, the example of what's happening with paying for VVD is going to sway them more so than any run of form Karius has at the end of the season. He could play lights out for the last 10 or so matches they have, but they also have a run of where he wasn't. Let him play well, let him compete for matches, but still spend the money.

On the Arsenal not firing a guy, you do know that whoever comes in won't get that same run. Wenger's only getting this time because he can call back to the Invicibles.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Zouma?

True, completely slipped my mind. We shouldn't have loaned him out, and he better be brought back next year. The main argument for us to stick with a back-3 is to be able to incorporate all three of Christensen, Rudiger, and Zouma into the team going forward (especially once Azpi starts to get up there in age).

 

[S E P H]

On the Arsenal not firing a guy, you do know that whoever comes in won't get that same run. Wenger's only getting this time because he can call back to the Invicibles.

I would kill to have more cut throat attitude here, it is sorely needed.

 

[hatterson]

I am not surprised in the slightest.

LOL at Kolasinac's body cheque, that is better than half of the hits you see in hockey. And didn't even get a single card to boot, what a clean hit.

Just keep the losses coming, we're close to the breaking point.

Yea I thought that should have been a straight red. For it not to be even a yellow was a ref being scared of sending someone off.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

It wasn't even a foul. Only ended up as a throw in. And there were plenty of other times I found that Arsenal got favorable decisions by the referee.

 

[les Habs]

Thoughts?

He's right about the Thursday fixture. Same thing happened to us, but the difference is we had a match the Saturday prior and not the Sunday prior. That's Spain for ya.

Despite being right, Wenger still has to get that side performing better. They may not be a CL place side, but too much talent not to qualify for the Europa League.

Jesus ****ing Christ Conte put a striker on.

I don't understand why Morata didn't start in the first place. Don't get me wrong, he's still overrated, but they need either he or Giroud out there. And then to put him on in the 90th minute? And pull Hazard in the process?

So, is Pep can't do it against Stoke on Tuesday still a thing? lol EPL fans.

Where have all the critics gone? None of what we're seeing this season should come as any surprise. And people will bring up the spending, but the quality of the squad is still only so good. Apart from Liverpool he'd probably get more out of just about every other side in the league. Somebody mentioned Sane in this thread and how he's improved, well again it should be no surprise.

 

[Blender]

If you want to argue Chelsea can't play with Manchester City, fine. But they spent a ton of money this summer and should be able to. They sent a few players out, but they also spent 235 million gross. Only one of the players they sold (Matic) was a part of their actual team, the rest were players that never played there. And look, if Liverpool can take it to City with a team that didn't have their biggest signing, Chelsea should be able to play football with them as well.

Teams that spend lots of money have to be able to go play football. That should be everyone's minimum standard of these teams.

They were dreadful today, but you can't really compare Chelsea's recent spending to Manchester City. Chelsea has spent £62m net this year and £30m net last year, compared with City spending £200m net this year and £162m last year. Chelsea's net spend this year was closer to Everton, Watford, Crystal Palace, Brighton & Hove, West Brom, and Huddersfield than it was to Manchester City and United.

Still no excuse for their pathetic performance today and I was not at all happy with their transfers this year. I don't think the team improved at all, and quite possibly got worse because of all the extra football they have to play.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Really beginning to wonder if Hazard and Courtois will leave in the summer.

 

[les Habs]

Really beginning to wonder if Hazard and Courtois will leave in the summer.

A decision should be made on both. Courtois' deal is up in 2019 and Hazard's in 2020.

 

[Chimaera]

I mean, to be fair, I've always been one to beat the drum on the cold night in Stoke, but it did take him a bit of an adjustment. More so for the roster, but it's not an overnight thing. It also helps that he's outspent basically every other club.

He's certainly the best manager, but it doesn't hurt that he had a pretty good roster and then he was able to sink a boat load of cash into it on top of it.

As good as they are this season, and they are probably the best team in Europe, it won't last forever. At some point, it will get a bit stale and teams will figure out how to break it down or to frustrate them. Players will lose form, and someone will get hurt.

Note, at no point am I trying to say it's all about the money to why he's good. Pep's a good manager without spending all that money. But it definitely is a plus to get to go out and outspend all of your closest rivals.

 

[Chimaera]

Really beginning to wonder if Hazard and Courtois will leave in the summer.

If they don't have CL, why would they stay?

Real could reasonably make an argument that both would solve some of their problems.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

PSG would really like Courtois too.

 

[Evilo]

They've met him already.