GWT: Premier League Match day 29

[Live in the Now]

They were dreadful today, but you can't really compare Chelsea's recent spending to Manchester City. Chelsea has spent £62m net this year and £30m net last year, compared with City spending £200m net this year and £162m last year. Chelsea's net spend this year was closer to Everton, Watford, Crystal Palace, Brighton & Hove, West Brom, and Huddersfield than it was to Manchester City and United.

Still no excuse for their pathetic performance today and I was not at all happy with their transfers this year. I don't think the team improved at all, and quite possibly got worse because of all the extra football they have to play.

I know their net spend wasn't very high, but that almost doesn't matter. I don't think anyone's expecting them to keep pace with City, but they need to go out there and play football with them. A team that spent 9 million net is only three points off City's pace since the end of October, and went to play football with them. Shakhtar's another, I don't know what their transfer business is, but they went to go play football. Chelsea had money and they plonked it on players who weren't good enough, and the manager does have a negative mentality even though he is a good manager. If the manager is going to play negative football like that, they have to win.

Where have all the critics gone? None of what we're seeing this season should come as any surprise. And people will bring up the spending, but the quality of the squad is still only so good. Apart from Liverpool he'd probably get more out of just about every other side in the league. Somebody mentioned Sane in this thread and how he's improved, well again it should be no surprise.

After the goals against Arsenal there shouldn't be any critics. That being said, the spending is definitely a factor, to an extreme extent. They improved at fullback massively, goalkeeper they had two whacks at it and signed a good one, and they improved in midfield a lot. They also have 30 million worth of player on the bench at almost every position. That's only with Pep. Players who were signed for huge money including Otamendi have slotted in brilliantly this season, and that wasn't his signing, but still. Spending 200m net this season is a thing where at the minimum they should win the league. None of the other teams can compete with that. Then you get into the fact that on top of what they spent in the transfer market they are offering wages the other teams in Europe can't compete with. There's also the thing that there's no other team that can waste money on the likes of Mangala and banish them from the first team, and continue on spending money later like nothing happened. The other clubs competing with them are forced to deal with their mistakes to a much greater extent and in some cases continue playing them.

 

[les Habs]

I mean, to be fair, I've always been one to beat the drum on the cold night in Stoke, but it did take him a bit of an adjustment. More so for the roster, but it's not an overnight thing. It also helps that he's outspent basically every other club.

He's certainly the best manager, but it doesn't hurt that he had a pretty good roster and then he was able to sink a boat load of cash into it on top of it.

As good as they are this season, and they are probably the best team in Europe, it won't last forever. At some point, it will get a bit stale and teams will figure out how to break it down or to frustrate them. Players will lose form, and someone will get hurt.

Note, at no point am I trying to say it's all about the money to why he's good. Pep's a good manager without spending all that money. But it definitely is a plus to get to go out and outspend all of your closest rivals.

Uff. To admit that, and on top of the Suarez thing. At least you're honest.

What Guardiola inherited is more important than what they've spent he's come aboard. If you look at the signings since he's come on board, some have been good but some others nothing that special. Fair game that the money is brought up, but it's a lot more than just the money. It's not like you could line up all these managers who under the same circumstances would be getting these results.

 

[les Habs]

They've met him already.

Who has met whom?

After the goals against Arsenal there shouldn't be any critics. That being said, the spending is definitely a factor, to an extreme extent. They improved at fullback massively, goalkeeper they had two whacks at it and signed a good one, and they improved in midfield a lot. They also have 30 million worth of player on the bench at almost every position. That's only with Pep. Players who were signed for huge money including Otamendi have slotted in brilliantly this season, and that wasn't his signing, but still. Spending 200m net this season is a thing where at the minimum they should win the league. None of the other teams can compete with that. Then you get into the fact that on top of what they spent in the transfer market they are offering wages the other teams in Europe can't compete with. There's also the thing that there's no other team that can waste money on the likes of Mangala and banish them from the first team, and continue on spending money later like nothing happened. The other clubs competing with them are forced to deal with their mistakes to a much greater extent and in some cases continue playing them.

I totally disagree, at least as far as since Guardiola took over. Before then I would agree much more however. Since though? Not so much.

The spending at fullback hasn't had a huge impact. Walker yes. Mendy, as good as he will likely be, has been hurt. Danilo? He's been decent, but not very good. As for the other signings, B Silva hasn't had a big impact in the league (though he's starting to heat up). Laporte just arrived (though that was a good signing all things considered). Walker and Ederson have been excellent signings of course, but both were greatly needed. Stones has improved this season, but I would say he's still got a ways to go. Sane has been excellent, but that clearly looks down to Guardiola to a degree. Jesus has been excellent. Gundogan has been injured at times and a mixed bag, but he's a good backup. And that's most of the signings since Guardiola took over. So the spending since he's taken over, while massive, isn't the silver bullet as to why City are doing as well as they are. Like I said replying to @Chimaera it's the squad that he inherited which is a bigger factor. Still there's room to improve that said to a notable degree even right now and surely in the next year or two. It's just not as noticeable as it might be thanks to Guardiola.

 

[Evilo]

Who has met whom?

PSG has met Courtois, per plenty of reports.

 

[Fro]

I am not surprised in the slightest.

LOL at Kolasinac's body cheque, that is better than half of the hits you see in hockey. And didn't even get a single card to boot, what a clean hit.

Just keep the losses coming, we're close to the breaking point.

I made the comment that it may have got 5 and a game for charging in NHL

 

[hatterson]

What Guardiola inherited is more important than what they've spent he's come aboard.

How many players in their typical best XI were there before Pep? 3?

Today I think was Aguero, Silva, and Otamendi. I guess add Sterling to that mix if everyone is healthy.

Aguero is really the only key piece that Pep hasn’t brought in. The rest of the drivers of what City is were Pep additions.

 

[Chimaera]

Uff. To admit that, and on top of the Suarez thing. At least you're honest.

What Guardiola inherited is more important than what they've spent he's come aboard. If you look at the signings since he's come on board, some have been good but some others nothing that special. Fair game that the money is brought up, but it's a lot more than just the money. It's not like you could line up all these managers who under the same circumstances would be getting these results.

It is what it is. I still think some of those away matches in the EPL are a bit harder for some managers and players. But the gulf from the top to the bottom of the EPL is absurd this year. there's such a difference in class as you move up the table, it's a bit unfair. There's a lot of decent clubs in the middle of the table who would do just fine elsewhere, but will get tonked by City, Liverpool or Spurs.

I think if you gave four or five other managers one of the best two or three rosters in the EPL (maybe the best) and then gave them two or three windows with basically a blank check to get it done, you'd see similar results. Especially when I don't really feel the rest of the top 6-7 challengers are that great (I think Liverpool is the best, though they're so inconsistent and sold their best player in the Winter). Obviously, Pep goes about it a different way, and it's not an easy thing putting it all together, but I don't think it's a complete master class of managing.

 

[YNWA14]

There's no question that Pep has the best squad in England to work with. There's also no question his style, coaching and structure have them playing brilliant football.

I wouldn't put it all down to him. I mean he inherited a team that had won a lot over the last while and has been injected with a ton of new, high end talent (before and after he got there) but a good manager gets the best out of the team he's got and Pep is doing that.

 

[Live in the Now]

The worst thing that can happen to Liverpool right now is to have competent goalkeeping. You have Mignolet who we all agree is dreadful, but then have a meh unknown backup goalkeeper in Karius. Loris has shown he is more competent than anything else Pool has, but that above-average ability might realistically sway the Liverpool front office and Klopp to prevent buying a WC goalkeeper in the summer. Would any of you lot actually trust Karius to start in a CL Final game? I know if I was a Red fan I wouldn't and why this could sabotage them for the future...

I don't agree at all with this. First, we'll see what Karius does the rest of this season, and it's great to have competent goalkeeping now. Liverpool have increased their lead over fifth place pretty massively and are cruising through this round of the CL in large part because of good goalkeeping. Karius has made many good saves in both competitions and has been really solid rushing out of his goal to prevent good shooting angles. There are a lot of huge games and particularly next weekend for Karius to prove himself. He was also rated one of the best keepers in Germany prior to his move. If he continues to play this well it will be an interesting decision for Klopp to make. There's no reason to judge until the season's over, and I'm usually incredibly harsh on goalkeepers. He's

Now, Alisson is world class, and it seems like he's rarely talked about on this board, but he's one of the best keepers going. Just as good as the likes of Oblak. He's the quality kind of keeper that can win matches by themselves, but he's going to cost at least 50 million, and he's going to start for Brazil at the World Cup. Roma are actually said to want 62 million. That's a lot of money for a goalkeeper, the thought is actually nauseating, and I would never want to see my club pay 62 million in any case. If Karius performs great for the rest of the season then it changes things, but if he doesn't, obviously everyone would rather have Alisson. If money weren't a factor everyone would rather have Alisson. But it is a factor and 50 million is a huge fee, if a team has a good goalkeeper already on their books, there's no reason to spend that.

I also think PSG will sign Alisson before Liverpool can.

 

[les Habs]

PSG has met Courtois, per plenty of reports.

I don't doubt it, just wasn't sure who you were referring to.

How many players in their typical best XI were there before Pep? 3?

Today I think was Aguero, Silva, and Otamendi. I guess add Sterling to that mix if everyone is healthy.

Aguero is really the only key piece that Pep hasn’t brought in. The rest of the drivers of what City is were Pep additions.

Is that a serious question? I would say it depends on who you think is in the best XI. If you're referring to "key pieces", I would say Aguero, de Bruyne, D Silva, Sterling, Fernandinho and Kompany. Everyone being healthy that's almost half or just more than half of their best XI. Furthermore though and this is the important part, it's their best players by quite a ways in Aguero, de Bruyne and Silva. That's not to mention Fernandinho's importance. So to say Aguero is really the only key piece is well wrong.

It is what it is. I still think some of those away matches in the EPL are a bit harder for some managers and players. But the gulf from the top to the bottom of the EPL is absurd this year. there's such a difference in class as you move up the table, it's a bit unfair. There's a lot of decent clubs in the middle of the table who would do just fine elsewhere, but will get tonked by City, Liverpool or Spurs.

I think if you gave four or five other managers one of the best two or three rosters in the EPL (maybe the best) and then gave them two or three windows with basically a blank check to get it done, you'd see similar results. Especially when I don't really feel the rest of the top 6-7 challengers are that great (I think Liverpool is the best, though they're so inconsistent and sold their best player in the Winter). Obviously, Pep goes about it a different way, and it's not an easy thing putting it all together, but I don't think it's a complete master class of managing.

Meh. We hear that every year. All of those mid table sides wouldn't be doing any better by any notable degree in La Liga or Serie A, especially in the case of the former.

Giving them a blank check maybe, but giving them the same players probably not. You won't find four or five other managers who could deliver the results and performances he is. I'm not just talking about winning the League Cup or winning the Premiership (which let's face it is a foregone conclusion). It's how it's being done and you're not going to find four or five guys who are going to have this City running away with this league the way they are. You're probably hard pressed to find three guys.

 

[hatterson]

I actually forgot de Bruyne was there already. I thought he arrived in Pep’s first summer. My bad there.

 

[les Habs]

I actually forgot de Bruyne was there already. I thought he arrived in Pep’s first summer. My bad there.

Understandable since Guardiola gets a lot of credit for that signing.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Yup, its all down to outspending everyone. I mean poor Manu only spent 100 million on Pogba. Poor poor Mourinho had no chance.

 

[YNWA14]

If Karius keeps playing like he has since taking over as #1 there's no reason to buy another keeper money or not (maybe a young keeper to be an understudy/backup but Ward and Grabara seem pretty promising). Alisson is doing great this season but wasn't Karius rated as the 2nd best keeper in the BuLi behind Neuer the season before we bought him? Adjustments happen especially in such a different league and given he broke his hand... his style suits Liverpool well if nothing else; his play outside of the box and his reading of the game seem at a really high level.

 

[les Habs]

I heard that Arsenal get a Europa League spot finishing runners up in the Carabao Cup since City will win the league. If that's true then it's huge for Arsenal because they're guaranteed European football one way or the other and they can focus on winning the Europa League. Of course they won't win the Europa League so I guess it doesn't matter.

 

[Live in the Now]

They got rid of that in England actually.

 

[hatterson]

I heard that Arsenal get a Europa League spot finishing runners up in the Carabao Cup since City will win the league. If that's true then it's huge for Arsenal because they're guaranteed European football one way or the other and they can focus on winning the Europa League. Of course they won't win the Europa League so I guess it doesn't matter.

Becuase City won the league cup and will finish in a continental spot, their league cup spot gets passed to the next highest team in the standings, or 6th.

If United, Spurs, or Chelsea win the FA cup, that spot would also get dropped down so 7th would make it.

Right now arsenal are 5 up on Burnley, 8 up on Leicester, and 9 up on Watford. They still have to play all 3 of those teams so that’s either a chance to put the chase to rest or to blow it wide open.

 

[hatterson]

They got rid of that in England actually.

Do you have a source for that? I haven’t seen anything that says the distribution of spots has changed for the EL

Edit: ohhh, you mean the actual cup runner up spot. Yea that’s been gone for a few seasons. Arsenal qualify right now based on being 6th, not being league cup runners up.

 

[Live in the Now]

There's a genuine chance Burnley surpasses them. Once Arsenal goes out of the Europa League, their team won't give a single shit about the rest of the season.

 

[phisherman]

I'd rather Arsenal not make it to Europe.

And for those saying that will hinder their chance at signing top talents I trust the head of recruitment, the one that they stole from Dortmund, to make smart signings.

 

[Live in the Now]

I'd rather Arsenal not make it to Europe.

And for those saying that will hinder their chance at signing top talents I trust the head of recruitment, the one that they stole from Dortmund, to make smart signings.

Dortmund has made a lot of bad signings in the last few years to be fair.

They don't need top players anyway, because the team has too many holes to fill by signing proven quality, it simply costs too much to do what Manchester City does (and now the market is even more inflated). They need to get back to signing players like Sanson and build a team from the ground up. Failure does allow a team to restart however they choose to do so. 21-24 year olds are what they need to get back to targeting. Signing 28 year old players, unless they're in position to win trophies with those additions, is actually horrible transfer policy.

 

[phisherman]

Dortmund has made a lot of bad signings in the last few years to be fair.

They don't need top players anyway, because the team has too many holes to fill by signing proven quality, it simply costs too much to do what Manchester City does (and now the market is even more inflated). They need to get back to signing players like Sanson and build a team from the ground up. Failure does allow a team to restart however they choose to do so. 21-24 year olds are what they need to get back to targeting. Signing 28 year old players, unless they're in position to win trophies with those additions, is actually horrible transfer policy.

I think that's the plan. They've been linked with names like Horn, Diallo, Meyer and Malcom. All youngish players.

Plus they have a promising group of players coming through the academy. This rebuild is a perfect time to start implementing them in as well.

 

[S E P H]

I'm with phisherman, I much rather not be in any competitions next year except league and domestic ones. I will absolutely risk it for any players leaving because of it.

Yea I thought that should have been a straight red. For it not to be even a yellow was a ref being scared of sending someone off.

Yeah how he did not get anything on that is absolutely in insane. I get it that he didn't mean to and he looked genuine sorry, but that doesn't excuse him the play. It was an amazing hit though, would pay to see it again.

 

[Havre]

Really beginning to wonder if Hazard and Courtois will leave in the summer.

My guess a new manager will ask them to stay. Hazard will get a raise etc.

Courtois wants to go back to Madrid. Could see him seeing his contract out in London based on his comments earlier. A truck load of Qatari money might change his view of course.

 

[Cassano]

I'd rather Arsenal not make it to Europe.

And for those saying that will hinder their chance at signing top talents I trust the head of recruitment, the one that they stole from Dortmund, to make smart signings.

They already made it thanks to the tinpot league cup final.