GWT: Premier League: 4/8-4/9

[hatterson]

Wenger wasn't going to stay forever. But unlike post-Ferguson and post-Benitez the structure in place should make it easier for whoever the next manager is to succeed.

I'm not really sure what about the way Arsenal has operated through this makes you think they have a great organizational structure in place.

The structure right now is that no one inside the organization even thinks of questioning Wenger. They don't appear to have some great system where there's a ton of input from all over and another manager could just step in to lead it.

 

[Live in the Now]

Another problem at least as far as next season goes, if either Chelsea or Spurs go in for one of Arsenal's targets who decided their reason for going to Arsenal was to play in London, those two clubs will have something to offer that Arsenal can't. The fact is Arsenal have let far too many players run down their contract this time around, and now they have no reason to renew. So they will get shafted if they sell those players too. This is organizational dysfunction more than anything else.

 

[VEGASKING]

It's cheapness not organizational dysfunction the reason Alexis and Ozil haven't signed new deals. They want market value and Arsenal doesn't offer it.

Even with their contracts running down they would still make a profit on Alexis and maybe a small loss on Ozil. I think Chamberlain is the only other player going into the last 12 months and they would make a profit if they sold him, too.

 

[Live in the Now]

Ramsey and Gibbs too, but not sure they matter.

I think the "will he or won't he stay" with Wenger is causing a lot of these problems. He's Arsenal and their players up in the air, so there's always this distraction hanging above them.

 

[Power Man]

Rofl

Ben Spelman on Twitter: "Did Arsenal win today? https://t.co/kfc0o1LQqL"
https://mobile.twitter.com/BenSpelman/status/851541410109173760

 

[spintheblackcircle]

The Wenger out crowd may be right, but they won't like it when Arsenal turns into United post-Ferguson or Liverpool post-Benitez, etc.

Spurs are a monkey wrench to the old "Big 4". They've already had to add ManCity to their club, they are there every year. Now, there is nothing that will keep Spurs from being a top club for the foreseeable future. No more "worst case scenario is 4th".

6 clubs for 4 spots now, and that's if Everton doesn't find a way to sneak in there. And then there's the Leicester City from nowhere crap.

No more sure things in the EPL.

 

[YNWA14]

I said it before; Arsenal are a shambles and they're going to be going through a transitional period where they probably aren't very good for a while. With the newfound strength of some other teams I could see them finishing even lower than say the 7th or 8th that others have had to endure if they aren't careful and don't make the right decisions over the summer.

 

[Live in the Now]

Table looked like that at one point.

 

[Halladay]

Think 72 points will be enough for 4th, so 3 more wins. But 4 wins should definitely get it.

 

[phisherman]

I'm not really sure what about the way Arsenal has operated through this makes you think they have a great organizational structure in place.

The structure right now is that no one inside the organization even thinks of questioning Wenger. They don't appear to have some great system where there's a ton of input from all over and another manager could just step in to lead it.

A large world class stadium, great facilities and financial stability. Personnel come and go but they have a stable infrastructure that will make it easy for the next manager to compete.

Sure Spurs and Liverpool can finish top 4 this season but let's see how they handle having to pay for their future stadiums.

 

[phisherman]

I said it before; Arsenal are a shambles and they're going to be going through a transitional period where they probably aren't very good for a while. With the newfound strength of some other teams I could see them finishing even lower than say the 7th or 8th that others have had to endure if they aren't careful and don't make the right decisions over the summer.

Oh please!! Just like Jordan Henderson is a top 5 box to box midfielder right?

The collapse is due to Wenger getting outsmarted by the opposing managers and the players quitting on him.

Did you say the same thing when Chelsea finished 10th last year?

 

[Ar-too]

Being a prima donna isn't being mentally tough. He has his issues too, and as an Arsenal supporter he's been just as frustrating as any other player in recent weeks.

So much this. Oezil too. You can see their talent, but so often it seems to be displayed in service of showing off their talent, not in service of helping the team win.

 

[hatterson]

A large world class stadium, great facilities and financial stability. Personnel come and go but they have a stable infrastructure that will make it easy for the next manager to compete.

Sure Spurs and Liverpool can finish top 4 this season but let's see how they handle having to pay for their future stadiums.

United had all of those things in an even greater measure than Arsenal does. Now we're on our third manager in 4 years since then and if Jose doesn't win the EL this year most will consider it a failure.

The idea that someone will just step in a keep Arsenal humming as a perennial 3rd place, R16 CL team seems incredibly optimistic. Sure it *could* happen, but I wouldn't at all bet on it given Arsenal don't really have a young up and coming team, but rather an older group that needs to be almost completely retooled.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Think 72 points will be enough for 4th, so 3 more wins. But 4 wins should definitely get it.

For who?

 

[phisherman]

United had all of those things in an even greater measure than Arsenal does. Now we're on our third manager in 4 years since then.

The idea that someone will just step in a keep Arsenal humming as a perennial 3rd place, R16 CL team seems incredibly optimistic. Sure it *could* happen, but I wouldn't at all bet on it given Arsenal don't really have a young up and coming team, but rather an older group that needs to be almost completely retooled.

1. United had an aging core.
2. They hired David Moyes
3. They didn't give him any time.
4. Then the season after they finished in a champions league spot.

Let's look at the opposite.

Remember when Spurs were supposed to rise up to the top when they were in the CL with Bale? Oh guess what? They're still not at the level of the Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City, etc.

Remember when Liverpool finished 2nd with Suarez and they were supposed to be challengers for years to come?

Just because Arsenal finishes out of a CL place doesn't mean they will be stuck in midtable hell.

And look at the age of Ramsay, Wilshere, Xhaka, Bellerin, Ox, Iwobi, etc. if you're talking about young up and coming team.

 

[Ar-too]

And look at the age of Ramsay, Wilshere, Xhaka, Bellerin, Ox, Iwobi, etc. if you're talking about young up and coming team.

That's all well and good, but for how many years have we been hearing how great Arsenal's young players are? At some point they've got to deliver. And the cupboard's getting bare at this point.

 

[Halladay]

For who?

For Liverpool. Spurs are finishing 2nd. Think City and Liverpool will finish with the other two spots, just not sure which way.

1. United had an aging core.
2. They hired David Moyes
3. They didn't give him any time.
4. Then the season after they finished in a champions league spot.

Let's look at the opposite.

Remember when Spurs were supposed to rise up to the top when they were in the CL with Bale? Oh guess what? They're still not at the level of the Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City, etc.

Remember when Liverpool finished 2nd with Suarez and they were supposed to be challengers for years to come?

Just because Arsenal finishes out of a CL place doesn't mean they will be stuck in midtable hell.

And look at the age of Ramsay, Wilshere, Xhaka, Bellerin, Ox, Iwobi, etc. if you're talking about young up and coming team.

You are in for a shock if you think those players will lead them forward. They will lead them to 6th and 7th place finishes if those are their best players.

 

[phisherman]

You are in for a shock if you think those players will lead them forward. They will lead them to 6th and 7th place finishes if those are their best players.

Yea because Arsenal aren't going to buy any players.

They are good pieces to finish top 4, which they've done for many consecutive years.

 

[Gambar]

Sure Spurs and Liverpool can finish top 4 this season but let's see how they handle having to pay for their future stadiums.

If anyone is actually interested in this, this is an in-depth piece into Spurs' finances: https://thespursreport.wordpress.co...f-thfcs-accounts-for-the-2016-financial-year/

 

[Halladay]

Yea because Arsenal aren't going to buy any players.

They are good pieces to finish top 4, which they've done for many consecutive years.

Cause they have shown that they will go out and spend the money required to . Wilshire and Oxlande-Chamberlain are too injury prone and Xhaka cant move. They are in a dangerous situation where they need to hire the correct person, or they could spend a while finishing 6th and 7th. There is very little to be optimistic about them at this moment.

 

[Live in the Now]

A large world class stadium, great facilities and financial stability. Personnel come and go but they have a stable infrastructure that will make it easy for the next manager to compete.

Sure Spurs and Liverpool can finish top 4 this season but let's see how they handle having to pay for their future stadiums.

They paid for it this summer by spending nothing. Redevelopment cost 115m, and they receive 20m extra a season in revenue. TV rights went up massively. Do the math. It's not like it used to be when Arsenal built theirs.

 

[phisherman]

Cause they have shown that they will go out and spend the money required to . Wilshire and Oxlande-Chamberlain are too injury prone and Xhaka cant move. They are in a dangerous situation where they need to hire the correct person, or they could spend a while finishing 6th and 7th. There is very little to be optimistic about them at this moment.

You mean when they spent on Sanchez, Ozil, Mustafi, and Xhaka?

All Arsenal really need to do is to higher the right manager. If they do that they will be fine.

 

[mmk786]

Arsenal are in a precarious position. Getting rid of Wenger is all good and dandy but it has been proven time and again that bringing in a new manager to succeed a long serving one rarely leads to instant success.

 

[maclean]

The Wenger out crowd may be right, but they won't like it when Arsenal turns into United post-Ferguson or Liverpool post-Benitez, etc.

The thing is, if he doesn't go, they could easily end up in a slump like that anyway, because that's the direction they're heading. A new manager provides at least the hope of pulling out of it.

 

[Corto]

Remember when Spurs were supposed to rise up to the top when they were in the CL with Bale? Oh guess what? They're still not at the level of the Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City, etc.

I'd say they are.

In fact, if you take into account the points PL teams have accumulated since the beginning of last season, Spurs are (far) in front.
They've been the most consistent team over the last 2 years, which is extremely impressive since they have:
A) (much) lower payroll than the "traditional top-5"
B) (by far) the youngest team in the league

Yeah, they took a step back when they sold Bale and Modric (which team wouldn't?) but they invested that money smartly and now have a terrific, exciting, young, balanced team.
It took a few years to re-build the team, but they've done a great job.
I'm by no means a Tottenham fan, but I gotta give them credit for assembling a great young team under a terrific young manager.
They're quite a treat to watch, even if I do want them to lose every game.

They choked a bit last year, but to me, it seems they're getting over that last mental hurdle and they'll be among the favorites for the title next season.