Premier League 2019-20 Part III

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Which owners?

Which ever team bush owned

 

[bleedblue1223]

Which ever team bush owned

Oh, Texas Rangers. He always had a minor stake, left his position with the club when he became Governor, and he sold his stake in 98, prior to winning the election for President. So, pretty different situations, even if we want to go under the assumption that he and MBS are in the same category/tier, and if that's the case, we should apply the same critique to Obama and Trump and many other US Presidents, as well as the nominee to run against Trump.

 

[hatterson]

Comparing Bush owning a minor stake in the Rangers prior to him being a politician to MBS buying Newcaste in 2020 is.....that's something.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

You're right, it's unfair to compare MBS to George Bush given how much higher Bush's body count is. Not even a competition on that front!

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Oh, Texas Rangers. He always had a minor stake, left his position with the club when he became Governor, and he sold his stake in 98, prior to winning the election for President. So, pretty different situations, even if we want to go under the assumption that he and MBS are in the same category/tier, and if that's the case, we should apply the same critique to Obama and Trump and many other US Presidents, as well as the nominee to run against Trump.

Didnt know the details but as mentioned already theyre worse in some ways. The question remains valid just didnt know he wasnt owner while being president or after his presidency. So its hypothetical.

 

[bleedblue1223]

So, you guys are actually making the argument that Bush is worse than MBS? No, I think our foreign policy has been abhorrent under both Republicans and Democrats, but that is certainly a take if I've seen one.

 

[Live in the Now]

So, you guys are actually making the argument that Bush is worse than MBS? No, I think our foreign policy has been abhorrent under both Republicans and Democrats, but that is certainly a take if I've seen one.

His actions did lead to more death. But prior to that, when he owned a team, nothing had happened by then.

 

[Savant]

Remember when we thought Bush would be the worst president ever...

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

So, you guys are actually making the argument that Bush is worse than MBS? No, I think our foreign policy has been abhorrent under both Republicans and Democrats, but that is certainly a take if I've seen one.

Its not if you have any clue as to how many people his and his fathers regimes killed.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

His actions did lead to more death. But prior to that, when he owned a team, nothing had happened by then.

How about his father?

 

[bleedblue1223]

Its not if you have any clue as to how many people his and his fathers regimes killed.

The Iraq War might been started on the BS intel on weapons of mass destruction, but the Gulf War wasn't. If we want to associate the death tolls of BS wars/conflicts of the US, then apply the same critique to Obama's admin.

The difference between the US and MBS is ultimately one democratically decided to wage these wars and with Saudi, it's an absolute monarchy.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

The Iraq War might been started on the BS intel on weapons of mass destruction, but the Gulf War wasn't. If we want to associate the death tolls of BS wars/conflicts of the US, then apply the same critique to Obama's admin.

I'll happily apply the same critique! 98% of why MBS is truly reprehensible is because of the war in Yemen, a war which has been funded and armed by the US, beginning under Obama. So if we're gonna go on about the evil that is MBS as we discuss the Newcastle takeover, we should at least be honest about that.

But people aren't interested in that, because these conversations over "which owner is worse?" are in their nature extremely shallow and uninterested in engaging with how power and violence operate on a deeper level, more interested in just pointing fingers to say "this guy, this guy is the worst one!"

 

[bleedblue1223]

I think MBS killing people that go against him is what puts him in a different class. It's an important distinction, it's not just about wars or even terrorism. Drawing a comparison to US foreign policy is a bit silly IMO or even to billionaires like Roman, like some do on here.

 

[Cassano]

I think MBS killing people that go against him is what puts him in a different class. It's an important distinction, it's not just about wars or even terrorism. Drawing a comparison to US foreign policy is a bit silly IMO or even to billionaires like Roman, like some do on here.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I think it's somewhat weird to single out the Saudis vs the Qataris, the UAE folks, SE Asian big bosses, the ex-Soviet oligarchs. The Premiership had an "open for money from any and all comers" sign up for a while. I think it's all wrong, but clearly some folks think it's even good for the game, so for them it's a bit rich to want to stop the Saudis.

 

[YNWA14]

I think MBS killing people that go against him is what puts him in a different class. It's an important distinction, it's not just about wars or even terrorism. Drawing a comparison to US foreign policy is a bit silly IMO or even to billionaires like Roman, like some do on here.

Do you think that politicians in western society have never had innocent people killed before? There are many, many conspiracy theories out there about different deaths, circumstances, etc. related to many politicians. Is there really much difference if a democratically elected politician is responsible for mass death versus a monarch? Just because they were elected doesn't make their hands clean. I imagine most different countries all share different narratives about the others...

 

[bleedblue1223]

Who has Roman killed? He isn't Putin.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Do you think that politicians in western society have never had innocent people killed before? There are many, many conspiracy theories out there about different deaths, circumstances, etc. related to many politicians. Is there really much difference if a democratically elected politician is responsible for mass death versus a monarch? Just because they were elected doesn't make their hands clean. I imagine most different countries all share different narratives about the others...

I think it's clear from my posts that my position is their hands aren't clean, but they aren't killing their opposition and media/citizen dissenters.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

The Iraq War might been started on the BS intel on weapons of mass destruction, but the Gulf War wasn't. If we want to associate the death tolls of BS wars/conflicts of the US, then apply the same critique to Obama's admin.

The difference between the US and MBS is ultimately one democratically decided to wage these wars and with Saudi, it's an absolute monarchy.

Few things, not sure what you're fixation about Obama is. I'm was never a fan of him or ANY politician. They're all awful. The first Iraq war wasn't a just war, the response was no where near proportional either... nor the sanctions that did more damage than the bombs. Moving on to the 03 war which wasn't BS intel is was fabricated intel. Not to mention the torture used by the regime and their total contempt for their own supposed values and laws.

These wars weren't voted on and both wars had scores of people swarming the streets in protest. They went into war regardless and I doubt the children of Iraq take any solace in knowing these bombs were brought by democracy.

I think MBS killing people that go against him is what puts him in a different class. It's an important distinction, it's not just about wars or even terrorism. Drawing a comparison to US foreign policy is a bit silly IMO or even to billionaires like Roman, like some do on here.

Why is it worse... killing innocent people that don't even want to oppose you is arguably worse.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Few things, not sure what you're fixation about Obama is. I'm was never a fan of him or ANY politician. They're all awful. The first Iraq war wasn't a just war, the response was no where near proportional either... nor the sanctions that did more damage than the bombs. Moving on to the 03 war which wasn't BS intel is was fabricated intel. Not to mention the torture used by the regime and their total contempt for their own supposed values and laws.

These wars weren't voted on and both wars had scores of people swarming the streets in protest. They went into war regardless and I doubt the children of Iraq take any solace in knowing these bombs were brought by democracy.



Why is it worse... killing innocent people that don't even want to oppose you is arguably worse.

We are a republic, Iraq war was voted on, and laws passed during that time allowed for current and future administrations to wield more power.

Yes, me saying BS intel means it was made up bullshit...

Ordering the murder of dissenters is worse than waging bad wars IMO. Both are bad and it's disingenuous to say I suggested otherwise.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

We are a republic, Iraq war was voted on, and laws passed during that time allowed for current and future administrations to wield more power.

Source?

The rest of the post still stands. It just implicates the US pop.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Source?

The rest of the post still stands. It just implicates the US pop.

Source to what, that our government is a Republic and those elected members voted for the Iraq war?

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Source to what, that our government is a Republic and those elected members voted for the Iraq war?

Like I said even if it was voted for it does nothing for the victims of the war. And we all know why there was such a strong response to the former American ally. It's no better or worse than the Yemen war.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Like I said even if it was voted for it does nothing for the victims of the war. And we all know why there was such a strong response to the former American ally. It's no better or worse than the Yemen war.

We are talking about the sins of individuals, and I even prefaced the situation if people want to put US leaders on same level as MBS, the differentiating factor is order the killings of dissenters like MBS, Putin, and Kim Jong Un have done. US foreign policy has destroyed Libya and given rise to the slave trade, I'm not defending it.