Premier League 2019-20 Part III

bleedblue1223

Registered User
Jan 21, 2011
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100%. No debate.
Wasn't quite sure, since I know some on here disagree with that notion. We can dislike the owner or maybe how the transfer market got inflated, but ultimately City, Chelsea, PSG, etc. have improved the game. It's incredible when a club like Leicester can have a magical season and become sustainable at a competitive level, but not every club can do that. I hope more clubs can compete financially with the traditional clubs.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
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Wasn't quite sure, since I know some on here disagree with that notion. We can dislike the owner or maybe how the transfer market got inflated, but ultimately City, Chelsea, PSG, etc. have improved the game. It's incredible when a club like Leicester can have a magical season and become sustainable at a competitive level, but not every club can do that. I hope more clubs can compete financially with the traditional clubs.
I do think that's one of the biggest sticking points. Generally the people with enough money to come in, buy a club like that, and then spend like they have more money than they know what to do with are rather unsavoury.

In principle though, if a nice lad came into some money, bought his boyhood team and wanted to spend to compete with anyone it shouldn't be blocked just because the 'old guard' want to keep their perch.
 
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bleedblue1223

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Jan 21, 2011
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I do think that's one of the biggest sticking points. Generally the people with enough money to come in, buy a club like that, and then spend like they have more money than they know what to do with are rather unsavoury.

In principle though, if a nice lad came into some money, bought his boyhood team and wanted to spend to compete with anyone it shouldn't be blocked just because the 'old guard' want to keep their perch.
It's just ridiculous when fans of the traditional rich clubs have view points where the other clubs need this good English lad buying the local club.
 

Jersey Fresh

Video Et Taceo
Feb 23, 2004
26,239
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T.A.
Wasn't quite sure, since I know some on here disagree with that notion. We can dislike the owner or maybe how the transfer market got inflated, but ultimately City, Chelsea, PSG, etc. have improved the game. It's incredible when a club like Leicester can have a magical season and become sustainable at a competitive level, but not every club can do that. I hope more clubs can compete financially with the traditional clubs.
How did they "improve the game"? You say that like the players Roman Abramovich bought when he took over weren't playing elsewhere. All the daddy warbux owners have done is consolidate the top players on a handful of teams. Some people might think that's good for the game, but I don't think so.

I also hope more clubs can compete financially. Unfortunately, the "traditional" clubs as you call them, are the ones writing the rules.

Edit: I didn't actually read the Wenger article before I replied. Your post makes more sense. I don't think the answer to the current inequity should be more disgustingly rich owners, but I agree the way the rules are enforced today is just pure gatekeeping.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

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May 3, 2007
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Wasn't quite sure, since I know some on here disagree with that notion. We can dislike the owner or maybe how the transfer market got inflated, but ultimately City, Chelsea, PSG, etc. have improved the game. It's incredible when a club like Leicester can have a magical season and become sustainable at a competitive level, but not every club can do that. I hope more clubs can compete financially with the traditional clubs.

Not sure by which standard those clubs have improved the game. That seems like a really odd assertion. How are fans better off because there's super teams that can buy all the players they want with money earned by dubious strongmen in dubious ventures?
 

bleedblue1223

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Jan 21, 2011
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How did they "improve the game"? You say that like the players Roman Abramovich bought when he took over weren't playing elsewhere. All the daddy warbux owners have done is consolidate the top players on a handful of teams. Some people might think that's good for the game, but I don't think so.

I also hope more clubs can compete financially. Unfortunately, the "traditional" clubs as you call them, are the ones writing the rules.

Edit: I didn't actually read the Wenger article before I replied. Your post makes more sense. I don't think the answer to the current inequity should be more disgustingly rich owners, but I agree the way the rules are enforced today is just pure gatekeeping.
Yeah, clubs are essentially just forced into whatever revenue lane they are in. It's extremely difficult to naturally climb into a different tier in relation to others. PL clubs are making more compared to other leagues, but relative to the league, it's still a giant disparity.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love for more clubs like Leicester, but it's extremely unlikely. Disgustingly rich owners is just a reality now. I'd love a league where non-traditional clubs can have a shot at winning year in and year out. It is improving though.
 

bleedblue1223

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Jan 21, 2011
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Not sure by which standard those clubs have improved the game. That seems like a really odd assertion. How are fans better off because there's super teams that can buy all the players they want with money earned by dubious strongmen in dubious ventures?
Why are we assuming the owners are inherently evil, I'm not advocating for more MBS type owners. I want a league where non-traditional clubs have a real shot at winning the title year in and year out. Without balanced ownership in terms of money, it's just extreme gate-keeping, where only the elites have a real shot at winning the league and Europe.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

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Why are we assuming the owners are inherently evil, I'm not advocating for more MBS type owners. I want a league where non-traditional clubs have a real shot at winning the title year in and year out. Without balanced ownership in terms of money, it's just extreme gate-keeping, where only the elites have a real shot at winning the league and Europe.

I am not saying they're inherently evil, but buying a club as a toy to spend a sovereign wealth on makes you a dick pretty much by definition. In any event, I don't see what this has to do with 'non-traditional' or not, Chelsea were founded in 1905, Manchester City in 1894 (with that name). They're both traditional clubs, both had their moments in the sun in history. They're as traditional as Manchester United, Liverpool or Arsenal. They just didn't achieve the same level of popularity and success over those 100+ years as those clubs.

Why? Because all of those clubs' trajectories were determined by the decision-making of their chairmen and managers. They own that trajectory, the history of the club. The same way Derby County, Leeds United or Aston Villa own theirs. I am mentioning those clubs of course because those three teams won league titles more recently than Chelsea and Man City had before their sugar daddies arrived. So how is it good for the game? If some hyper-rich guys decide "hey I'm going to make this club a super team, not by being real smart about building them up over a course of a decade or two, no, we're just going to buy all the best players and hire the best available staff pretty much immediately whatever the cost might be, not like I don't have it". How do the fans of the 100+ other teams that aren't Man United and aren't picked as a toy for oligarchs or sheikhs feel about that in terms of competition?

Now we can argue, well that's just life, right, I mean it's not like without that happening Derby would be challenging for the title. But what it did of course is drive up the pressure to spend for everyone else from the Arsenals and Liverpools of the world down to the Derbys and Swindon Towns of the world. It's triggering a domino effect when you introduce that much money into the market. It acts as a catalyst for monetization and commercialization. Are Amazon heroes for destroying brick and mortar retail? Were Walmart heroes for destroying small chains and independent stores? I mean again we can just say "it's just economics", but then it's football, right. People aren't fans because of the economics of it, it's the stories and the beauty of it that drives people. That sounds like a cliche, but it's true, isn't it? And in that story of football, who in their right mind wouldn't at least think the mega-investor pouring in cash to get what he wants at all cost is the villain? Are we supposed to cheer for Biff in Back to the Future?
 

bleedblue1223

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Jan 21, 2011
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I am not saying they're inherently evil, but buying a club as a toy to spend a sovereign wealth on makes you a dick pretty much by definition. In any event, I don't see what this has to do with 'non-traditional' or not, Chelsea were founded in 1905, Manchester City in 1894 (with that name). They're both traditional clubs, both had their moments in the sun in history. They're as traditional as Manchester United, Liverpool or Arsenal. They just didn't achieve the same level of popularity and success over those 100+ years as those clubs.

Why? Because all of those clubs' trajectories were determined by the decision-making of their chairmen and managers. They own that trajectory, the history of the club. The same way Derby County, Leeds United or Aston Villa own theirs. I am mentioning those clubs of course because those three teams won league titles more recently than Chelsea and Man City had before their sugar daddies arrived. So how is it good for the game? If some hyper-rich guys decide "hey I'm going to make this club a super team, not by being real smart about building them up over a course of a decade or two, no, we're just going to buy all the best players and hire the best available staff pretty much immediately whatever the cost might be, not like I don't have it". How do the fans of the 100+ other teams that aren't Man United and aren't picked as a toy for oligarchs or sheikhs feel about that in terms of competition?

Now we can argue, well that's just life, right, I mean it's not like without that happening Derby would be challenging for the title. But what it did of course is drive up the pressure to spend for everyone else from the Arsenals and Liverpools of the world down to the Derbys and Swindon Towns of the world. It's triggering a domino effect when you introduce that much money into the market. It acts as a catalyst for monetization and commercialization. Are Amazon heroes for destroying brick and mortar retail? Were Walmart heroes for destroying small chains and independent stores? I mean again we can just say "it's just economics", but then it's football, right. People aren't fans because of the economics of it, it's the stories and the beauty of it that drives people. That sounds like a cliche, but it's true, isn't it? And in that story of football, who in their right mind wouldn't at least think the mega-investor pouring in cash to get what he wants at all cost is the villain? Are we supposed to cheer for Biff in Back to the Future?
The traditional clubs that were winning prior to the takeovers we've seen, mainly Man U, Arsenal, and Liverpool. Arsenal was bought by Kroenke, an American Real Estate billionaire who is also married to the Wal-Mart heiress. Guess we should put them with Chelsea, City, and the other billionaire takeovers. These arguments always come off as fans of the rich clubs prior to the big money take overs wanting to gate-keep because they know the barriers to elite are now to such extreme levels that it becomes a historic upset when a non-rich club wins the league, and that's an absurd thing to have. And how do the fans of the 100+ other teams feel? They probably wish a billionaire improves their club down the road because deep down, they want a championship.

Maybe it's just something I'll never understand with the difference between NA sports and Euro sports. Parity and equal spending is the main driver here, and isn't valued as much in Europe.
 

maclean

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Jan 4, 2014
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Don't get me wrong, I'd love for more clubs like Leicester, but it's extremely unlikely. Disgustingly rich owners is just a reality now. I'd love a league where non-traditional clubs can have a shot at winning year in and year out. It is improving though.

With all this talk of Leicester it's almost like they didn't have a billionaire owner. :dunno:
 

maclean

Registered User
Jan 4, 2014
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Maybe it's just something I'll never understand with the difference between NA sports and Euro sports. Parity and equal spending is the main driver here, and isn't valued as much in Europe.

I mean, the difference is that in NA sports every team HAS to be top level of richness to be able to run. The bar is set so high that there is actually NO chance of a "grassroots" team getting somewhere. There is no such thing as a grassroots team, it's impossible. They have to put caps in to keep it from getting even more insane. So the difference is that in Europe you actually have teams that are still around despite never having been converted into megateams.
 

bleedblue1223

Registered User
Jan 21, 2011
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I mean, the difference is that in NA sports every team HAS to be top level of richness to be able to run. The bar is set so high that there is actually NO chance of a "grassroots" team getting somewhere. There is no such thing as a grassroots team, it's impossible. They have to put caps in to keep it from getting even more insane. So the difference is that in Europe you actually have teams that are still around despite never having been converted into megateams.
Baseball is still pretty like that. You'll have an occasional low payroll team make a run and then get gutted. Other leagues have caps and minimums, but also significant revenue sharing, so the big clubs aid the little clubs in a sense.
 

bleedblue1223

Registered User
Jan 21, 2011
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With all this talk of Leicester it's almost like they didn't have a billionaire owner. :dunno:
I guess thats fair, but pretty much every club in a top league needs a rich owner. They didn't spend like Chelsea, City, PSG, etc. that's all my point is with them.
 

bleedblue1223

Registered User
Jan 21, 2011
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Most people here think MBS biggest crime is Jamal.... which is not even close
I'm not saying MBS is responsible for this, but...

FBI: US naval base attack 'motivated by al-Qaeda'

Not the best example since I know there are individuals in US military that probably have ties to white supremacist groups, but Saudi has a deep history to terrorism around the world, and it sickens me that we keep a close relationship with them because of oil. It just makes all our other regime change operations even worse.
 

gary69

Registered User
Sep 22, 2004
8,425
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Then and there
Back to real news. Good for Kante. This is probably one thing that people haven't thought of as much. There are probably many players across all sports that have family history risk factors, and how do these leagues and teams handle those situations.

Sky: Kanté ‘prepared to miss’ rest of Premier League season over COVID-19 fears

On a largely unrelated personal anecdote, I could pretty much never recall his first name, so I used to call him Mory Kante. I guess I should no longer do that, since the Yeke Yeke singer has now died.
 

S E P H

Cloud IX
Mar 5, 2010
31,003
16,514
Toruń, PL


Saudi media suggests the deal is approved.

Can't wait for el Plastico 2.0.

How come the EPL can't block the deal? Or do they not want to? I ask because NHL has the power to veto any transaction from an old owner to new owner. EPL has to have some sort of power themselves no?
 

Duchene2MacKinnon

In the hands of Genius
Aug 8, 2006
45,300
9,465
I wonder with all the up roar of New castle buy, was/is there the same with the houston owners? Food for thought i guess.
 

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