Premier League 2018-2019 Part II

The Abusement Park

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Jan 18, 2016
34,246
25,454
And Zidane always seemed to lack a little bit of that tactical nous to me. I think he's an incredible man manager and can manage egos with the best of them, but I'm not sure if he has the tactical smarts a lot of top managers do. He seems like the perfect fit for teams that are basically built but need to get over the final hump.
 

Gecklund

Registered User
Jul 17, 2012
25,333
11,948
California
And Zidane always seemed to lack a little bit of that tactical nous to me. I think he's an incredible man manager and can manage egos with the best of them, but I'm not sure if he has the tactical smarts a lot of top managers do. He seems like the perfect fit for teams that are basically built but need to get over the final hump.
I agree. I actually think Zidane might make a good director of football.
 

maclean

Registered User
Jan 4, 2014
8,531
2,623
Saying Manchester United won the Europa League by fluke or came 2nd in the league by fluke is like saying Zidane won three Champions Leagues by fluke. There may have been flaws in the beauty of it, but really, come on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jussi

KJS14

Registered User
Jun 13, 2013
3,167
1,009
Saying Manchester United won the Europa League by fluke or came 2nd in the league by fluke is like saying Zidane won three Champions Leagues by fluke. There may have been flaws in the beauty of it, but really, come on.

The 2nd place finish wasn't a fluke. They earned that by playing boring Mourinho football outside of the first ~5 games, but they earned it 100%. But they won the Europa League basically because they had the easiest matchups in the competition ever. I mean their toughest opponents were Celta Vigo and a super young Ajax team.

Edit: All you need to know about the current state of United is that Mourinho called that year with the Europa league, FA cup, and community shield (lol) a treble winning year.
 
Last edited:

maclean

Registered User
Jan 4, 2014
8,531
2,623
The 2nd place finish wasn't a fluke. They earned that by playing boring Mourinho football outside of the first ~5 games, but they earned it 100%. But they won the Europa League basically because they had the easiest matchups in the competition ever. I mean their toughest opponents were Celta Vigo and a super young Ajax team.

Edit: All you need to know about the current state of United is that Mourinho called that year with the Europa league, FA cup, and community shield (lol) a treble winning year.

hahaha, sure, when he says it like that of course it sounds ridiculous, but the Europa title is one they didn't have in their collection and it will stay there until nobody remembers who they faced. plus, it shows they were at least better than those teams, which, as we well know, is not always a given
 

Il Mediano

Registered User
Feb 24, 2018
1,837
690
Nice, Mane's an integral piece.

Still not entirely sure where Liverpool can upgrade to close the gap with City. Maybe another creative midfielder - I dunno. Maybe a legit backup for Firmino too. Everything that absolutely needed to be upgraded has been.

I think the majority of it is gunna have to be internal development/improvement. Guys like Gomez/TAA/Keita taking the next step.

Might just be a matter of waiting , but it's difficult when City is adding Mahrez to a record setting team.
 

Savant

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Oct 3, 2013
37,093
10,742
Nice, Mane's an integral piece.

Still not entirely sure where Liverpool can upgrade to close the gap with City. Maybe another creative midfielder - I dunno. Maybe a legit backup for Firmino too. Everything that absolutely needed to be upgraded has been.

I think the majority of it is gunna have to be internal development/improvement. Guys like Gomez/TAA/Keita taking the next step.

Might just be a matter of waiting , but it's difficult when City is adding Mahrez to a record setting team.
Retaining their best talent is the first step they need better top level attacking depth to keep pressure on City. They needed Fekir really.
 

Corto

Faceless Man
Sep 28, 2005
16,002
947
Braavos
And Zidane always seemed to lack a little bit of that tactical nous to me. I think he's an incredible man manager and can manage egos with the best of them, but I'm not sure if he has the tactical smarts a lot of top managers do. He seems like the perfect fit for teams that are basically built but need to get over the final hump.

I think he's tactically very underrated.
You don't win 3 CLs in 2.5 years by just being a man manager.

First of all, his in-game changes were amazing, especially last season. In the PSG tie, he basically won the 1st game (and the tie) by going from 4-3-3 to 4-4-2 and dominating the flanks.

But second, and more important, he set up his team to its strengths and understood how it was built - for transition and taking down big teams. In Modric and Kroos he had possibly the world best passing midfielder and the best midfielder at opening passing lanes in Modric. Both good with the ball, both immaculate control, both press-immune. That team was never about possession because why would you want to crawl the ball up the pitch when you have Modric and Kroos to transition it, Marcelo and Carvajal to rip open the flanks and CR7 to exploit it all and destroy teams.

In the build-up, Casemiro went forward, Kroos and Modric dropped lower and that's why Madrid was so good at resisting high press.
On the defensive side, Casemiro dropped low, sometimes playing as the 3rd CB as Marcelo and Carvajal always played high.

This is something that went completely over Lopetegui's head - he played Modric further up the pitch in the build-up (most of the time ball never even got to him) and Casemiro was responsible for the build up with Kroos (Casemiro's possibly weakest area of his game).

It seems simple and self-evident, but apparently it's not. ZZ played the world's best midfield of the last 5 years to their strong sides and they played like the world's best midfield. Lopetegui completely missed the point of having those 3 together and went for his "tiki-taka forever" strat - which was neither dangerous nor a defensive improvement.

Defensively, ZZ played the fullbacks very high up - partly because in-form Marcelo and Carvajal are by far the best full-back pair, and partly because his CB pairing could handle it.
I know people made fun of Madrid's defensive structure, but it was adequate - especially because he knew he had two very different, but absolutely world class CBs in Ramos and Varane. While Ramos was the leader and aggressive as always (mostly stopping potentially dangerous plays before they ever developed), Varane is clean and has fantastic positioning. But maybe most importantly, both are stupidly fast for center backs, and it allowed them to cover huge spaces and almost always be in position on time.

There's a lot of other stuff that went on with ZZ's Madrid - and if you want, I'll go into it and bore everyone to sleep...

But I really do think this (to me) ridiculous narrative of Zidane's being a tactical noob (started and continued by some football journalists) is completely off-base.

It's like he gets stick for not inventing a new and unseen tactic , when there was no need to invent it.
You still need to fine tune your team, to find the right tactic and strategy for your existing team, have good man-management and the right in-game calls.

Yes, ZZ inherited a fantastic team, one of the best ever assembled. But people act like he lucked into 3 straight CLs and a La Liga, when it's anything but. Players bought in, played his system (sometimes defensively suspect, but always exciting and attacking) and raked in historic results.

You don't get that with having a tactical noob leading them.

I don't think he'd invent a new tactic or shape with United or whoever.
But I think he'd bring in the right players to play fast, attacking - and successful football.
 

The Abusement Park

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Jan 18, 2016
34,246
25,454
I think he's tactically very underrated.
You don't win 3 CLs in 2.5 years by just being a man manager.

First of all, his in-game changes were amazing, especially last season. In the PSG tie, he basically won the 1st game (and the tie) by going from 4-3-3 to 4-4-2 and dominating the flanks.

But second, and more important, he set up his team to its strengths and understood how it was built - for transition and taking down big teams. In Modric and Kroos he had possibly the world best passing midfielder and the best midfielder at opening passing lanes in Modric. Both good with the ball, both immaculate control, both press-immune. That team was never about possession because why would you want to crawl the ball up the pitch when you have Modric and Kroos to transition it, Marcelo and Carvajal to rip open the flanks and CR7 to exploit it all and destroy teams.

In the build-up, Casemiro went forward, Kroos and Modric dropped lower and that's why Madrid was so good at resisting high press.
On the defensive side, Casemiro dropped low, sometimes playing as the 3rd CB as Marcelo and Carvajal always played high.

This is something that went completely over Lopetegui's head - he played Modric further up the pitch in the build-up (most of the time ball never even got to him) and Casemiro was responsible for the build up with Kroos (Casemiro's possibly weakest area of his game).

It seems simple and self-evident, but apparently it's not. ZZ played the world's best midfield of the last 5 years to their strong sides and they played like the world's best midfield. Lopetegui completely missed the point of having those 3 together and went for his "tiki-taka forever" strat - which was neither dangerous nor a defensive improvement.

Defensively, ZZ played the fullbacks very high up - partly because in-form Marcelo and Carvajal are by far the best full-back pair, and partly because his CB pairing could handle it.
I know people made fun of Madrid's defensive structure, but it was adequate - especially because he knew he had two very different, but absolutely world class CBs in Ramos and Varane. While Ramos was the leader and aggressive as always (mostly stopping potentially dangerous plays before they ever developed), Varane is clean and has fantastic positioning. But maybe most importantly, both are stupidly fast for center backs, and it allowed them to cover huge spaces and almost always be in position on time.

There's a lot of other stuff that went on with ZZ's Madrid - and if you want, I'll go into it and bore everyone to sleep...

But I really do think this (to me) ridiculous narrative of Zidane's being a tactical noob (started and continued by some football journalists) is completely off-base.

It's like he gets stick for not inventing a new and unseen tactic , when there was no need to invent it.
You still need to fine tune your team, to find the right tactic and strategy for your existing team, have good man-management and the right in-game calls.

Yes, ZZ inherited a fantastic team, one of the best ever assembled. But people act like he lucked into 3 straight CLs and a La Liga, when it's anything but. Players bought in, played his system (sometimes defensively suspect, but always exciting and attacking) and raked in historic results.

You don't get that with having a tactical noob leading them.

I don't think he'd invent a new tactic or shape with United or whoever.
But I think he'd bring in the right players to play fast, attacking - and successful football.

I don’t think he’s a noob tactically, I think he’s quite good tactically I just wouldn’t consider him in the highest tier of tactical ability.
 

Corto

Faceless Man
Sep 28, 2005
16,002
947
Braavos
I don’t think he’s a noob tactically, I think he’s quite good tactically I just wouldn’t consider him in the highest tier of tactical ability.

Oh sorry if it went across as directed at you - wasn't my intention, I just went from your post where you said what you said (basically what you're saying in this post) to a number of prominent media people and a good number of fans who've been saying for a while now that ZZ is indeed a tactical noob etc.
 

Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
12,543
4,949
to a number of prominent media people and a good number of fans who've been saying for a while now that ZZ is indeed a tactical noob

One certainly got that impression during his tenure and your last post does an excellent job outlining that it isn't true.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
van Dijk named player of the month for November. First defender in 5 years. Not a top 10 defender though; probably just a purple patch.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Savant

Savant

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Oct 3, 2013
37,093
10,742
van Dijk named player of the month for November. First defender in 5 years. Not a top 10 defender though; probably just a purple patch.
Liverpool have 3 defenders, not including GK that should walk into the PL team of the season so far. Alisson makes 4. Unfortunately, Mane is the only other player that they have playing at that level.

TOTS back line is probably Robertson Virgil Laporte Gomez & Alisson thus far.

BONUS
David Silva, Torreira, Bernardo Silva
Sterling, Aguero, Hazard

There have been a lot of good left backs this year. Which is weird. Robertson has been best all around but Mendy, Alonso, Digne all have been very good.

Aubameyang, Lacazette, Kane and Mane are tough cuts as well.
 
Last edited:

Corto

Faceless Man
Sep 28, 2005
16,002
947
Braavos
Sterling, Aguero, Hazard

There have been a lot of good left backs this year. Which is weird. Robertson has been best all around but Mendy, Alonso, Digne all have been very good.

Aubameyang, Lacazette, Kane and Mane are tough cuts as well.

I think the team-of-the-season on the front three is basically: Sterling-top scorer-Hazard.

Who ends up top-scoring though, we'll see... Auba, Kane, Aquero, etc.
 

Savant

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Oct 3, 2013
37,093
10,742
I think the team-of-the-season on the front three is basically: Sterling-top scorer-Hazard.

Who ends up top-scoring though, we'll see... Auba, Kane, Aquero, etc.
That's fair. Season is about a third over so things are starting to shake out a bit.
 

spintheblackcircle

incoming!!!
Mar 1, 2002
66,314
12,244
Palace handed zero hygiene food rating after mice infestation

Crystal Palace have been forced to take action to improve conditions at their training ground after a report revealed mice were found by health inspectors in the kitchen.

An environmental health officer inspected the premises at Palace's training ground in Beckenham on August 29 and it was found to be well below the required standard.

The inspector discovered the kitchen had become infested with mice, forcing the club to close it down and bring in pest control to deal with the problem, which had reportedly been ongoing for months.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad