Low Effort GDT Pre season Sens vs Habs 3rd edition

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Berri UQAM

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I am not sure that I understand the fascination with that "fight." It looked pretty uneventful to me. Was Watson even trying to win? Perhaps he just wanted to wrestle his opponent to a tie, which is probably not a bad strategy for him. Of course, it does not send much of a message.

I did not watch the game, but someone mentioned that the Habs were going after Stutzle. If my memory serves me well, the Buffalo Sabres used to follow a memorable standard of responsive behaviour: "If you go after our star players, we're not going after you, we're going after your star players," or something like that.

Having observed Ottawa's response to various attempts to intimidate its skilled/star players, the Senators seem to uphold a very different standard: if you go after our star players, we're going after you, but only with limited force because we want to stick to our game plan and not get distracted by too many shenanigans.

This approach has some benefits. It limits the chances of escalating a tit-for-tat cycle of retribution, which would be dangerous for everyone. Also, a cycle of retribution would be far more costly for a promising team like Ottawa, as compared to a team that has less to lose, like Montreal.

However, in the long run, after a team targets a star Senators player, and Ottawa's response is limited, other teams in the league might believe that they should try the same kind of intimidation tactics against Ottawa. If Ottawa continues with its current approach, it might become increasingly difficult for the team to change anyone's perception that the star players can be pushed around.

In summary, it's fine to talk about bringing in a heavyweight, but the team's approach to handling intimidation is just as important as its musclepower. Personally, I like the idea running up the score as a response to intimidation, but it's not always realistic.

The good news for Ottawa is that star players like Stutzle are fairly resilient and unphased by attempts to intimidate. He seems to be engaged no matter what comes his way.
 
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Bjornar Moxnes

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The players obviously have to keep an eye on the kid given that he’s already injured 3 of our kids in rookie tourneys over the last two years.

He’s looking to make an impact in his organization, and hopefully get a job, and most of our lineup is looking at the regular season next week.

Good reminder for everyone to keep their heads up, but also no need for anyone to break hands in preseason fights. Bring up Sabs and throw Kastelic in if we need to entertain the kid again.

We can always start banging around their NHL players if we want to play that way, though part of me wants to focus on our lines and PP/PK, and get to the regular season without incident.

We can go hard when there is something on the line, games against them are always heated.

Entertaining game for the most part. I liked the top two lines with swapped centres, and I like our D pairings. Sandy and Hammy looked good, and Bran was doing some Bran things.

Honestly that's why I don't even blame the poor effort by some players like Chabot and Zub. Why risk an idiot injuring you for a preseason game?
 

PlayersLtd

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With fighting dying in the NHL the only way around guys like X is to have a true enforcer in the A that you bring up when needed. The best teams simply can not waste a regular roster spot on a forward who can counter the threat that a tough roster filler on a lottery team presents (I say forward because defensemen rarely fight defensemen so having your own tough(ish) D man on the third pairing doesn't really do it).

So, you need to revert back to a one dimensional intimidation styled forward for those select games. Kastelic might become that but he isn't going to model his game that way so it's unlikely he fully embraces the role and becomes the next Patrick Maroon, imo. Even the McDermid's, Deslauriers, and Reaves of the NHL are dying breeds. X is unique and he's in our division. If he makes the team you need to counter that on those nights with someone he knows he'll have a tough time with.
 
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Icelevel

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With fighting dying in the NHL the only way around guys like X is to have a true enforcer in the A that you bring up when needed. The best teams simply can not waste a regular roster spot on a forward who can counter the threat that a tough roster filler on a lottery team presents (I say forward because defensemen rarely fight defensemen so having your own tough(ish) D man on the third pairing doesn't really do it).

So, you need to revert back to a one dimensional intimidation styled forward for those select games. Kastelic might become that but he isn't going to model his game that way so it's unlikely he fully embraces the role and becomes the next Patrick Maroon, imo. Even the McDermid's, Deslauriers, and Reaves of the NHL are dying breeds. X is unique and he's in our division. If he makes the team you need to counter that on those nights with someone he knows he'll have a tough time with.
Remember f mclaren and d dziurzynski?
Ouch

I hope kastelic didn’t hurt his hand too bad last game. Looked like he might have.
 
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ReginKarlssonLehner

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Habs fan bragging about taking third L in a row

They've lost 7 straight too, lmao.

Honestly that's why I don't even blame the poor effort by some players like Chabot and Zub. Why risk an idiot injuring you for a preseason game?

Yup. Against the Habs no less. Absolutely no reason to try.

Funny enough, we still keep winning. Boys are literally out there just using finesse to win.
 

GermanSpitfire

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Meh - he’s been pounded by Lucic too. Saby is in the AHL because he’s an AHL player and AHL fighter . X is already a better fighter than Saby will ever be. He’s got 30lbs on Saby. End of story.
Xhekaj was a boxer growing up before he became a full time hockey player I believe. He’s not a guy you take lightly. Would be one of the better fighters in the NHL if he made it.
 
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Sweatred

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Xhekaj was a boxer growing up before he became a full time hockey player I believe. He’s not a guy you take lightly. Would be one of the better fighters in the NHL if he made it.

Totally agree - that’s why the Watson “draw” needs to be viewed appropriately given its in NFLD, a pre season game, an AHL player - and a super strong kid trying to make a name for himself.

Watson should have drawn an instagator call on the play and the Sens should have had a PP off his efforts. Kastellic was given the instigator last game - X should
Be held to the same standard but apparently the refs didn’t agree.

He played that exactly the way we would like.
 

Joeyjoejoe

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Xhekaj was a boxer growing up before he became a full time hockey player I believe. He’s not a guy you take lightly. Would be one of the better fighters in the NHL if he made it.

Lucky for him winning boxing matches at a hockey game is the only winning that Habs fans will be able to see this season.
 

h2

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I do think our team is a bit of a pushover when our players get targeted (ie. Batherson last year going down on that dirty hit). There was absolutely zero response to it.

It's a problem.
 

Union2017

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Berri UQAM

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Totally agree - that’s why the Watson “draw” needs to be viewed appropriately given its in NFLD, a pre season game, an AHL player - and a super strong kid trying to make a name for himself.

Watson should have drawn an instagator call on the play and the Sens should have had a PP off his efforts. Kastellic was given the instigator last game - X should
Be held to the same standard but apparently the refs didn’t agree.

He played that exactly the way we would like.

I bet some folks would feel differently about this "fight" if Montreal got the instigator, especially if Ottawa scored on the power play.

Anyways, I would encourage people to adjust their expectarions a little bit and stop trying to plan some way to have some macho man teach Xhekaj a painful lesson. This kind of approach just plays to his strengths.

If the team feels like there is some sort of unfinished business, there are other ways of dealing with it, recognizing that every approach will have advantages and disadvantages.

For what it is worth, I think that the Habs are their own enemy in some regards. As much as intimidation can provide a psychological advantage, they took undisciplined penalties in this game, with a view to playing rough. At least that's the sense I get reading these boards. Although Ottawa did not score on the power play, Montreal probably limited their scoring chances tonight by spending unneccessary time on the penalty kill. I would argue that their penalties were costly in the sense that the Habs might otherwise have scored an extra goal, perhaps resulting in a tie game after regulation time. And it's not even as if losing this game will help them get Bedard. They just seem to not care about making decisions or adopting habits that will help them win.
 
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bert

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I was told he's the next Jagr.
He's the same size as Lindros. Skates very well and was an amazing player as a 17 year old against men under massive pressure. He's 18, he has a long way to go but he is going to be a hell of a player. I have watched him close to 20 times now, he has by far the biggest upside in the draft and was the clear choice at number 1. Players take time to develop this board seems to be forgetting that for whatever reason.

Another comical outcome in the saga that is Club de Hockey Canadien drafting
It was absolutely the right pick. Shane Wright was trash last year, cant keep up and lacks compete. Was behind the play in the CHL all season.

I get people dont like the Habs but this isnt the play. He is going to be very very good.
 

Cosmix

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Of the 50+ players in the org .. who do you think could do better Vs the 240 lb Xhekaj?

You may say Kastellic … who has a lot to prove … Watson wasn’t trying to prove anything in that fight - he’s and old aging warrior who knows every fight takes it’s toll. He’s in Gander fighting a kid who probably plays in the AHL. Do you want a broken hand tongiht?

So maybe Kastelic .. who else ? I bet Xhekaj can hold his own vs Brady.
We need a real policeman on the 4th line. There is no such player on the 50 man list.
 
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SensFactor

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My forward group if I were GM going into the season:

Tkachuk Norris Batherson
DeBrincat Stutzle Giroux
Motte Pinto Joseph
Crookshank Kastelic Watson
Extra: Kelly, Gambrell

To me both Crookshank & Kastelic looked more impressive than Kelly & Gambrell
 
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Cosmix

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Oh I see you point but immediately dismiss it. you need an answer to teams heaviest players. Brady isn’t the answer , Saby isn’t an answer - so watson is the best you get. You don’t like it ? Give up something to get a better option.it’s not like X is the only player who will scrap or hit to hurt on montreal. You need a few answers.

It’s as instantly dismissed as those that want to play Stutzle or Norris as the match up 3C. It can’t happen.
The policeman role is a roster position that was not properly filled by the GM.
 

Cosmix

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I don't know why people are so down on Watson, he hits, blocks shots and kills penalties, and is willing to stand up for teammates. He's not brutal defensively and chips in the odd goal. Not bad for a 12th fwd, sure I wish he'd win more fights but he's fine, I'd rather him than Sabourin even if Sabourin might be a slightly better fighter (he isn't, but for the sake of argument).

I think Kastelic will soon offer everything Watson does and make him expendable though.
I hope Kastelic does replace Watson; but I still want a policeman on the 4th line.

My forward group if I were GM going into the season:

Tkachuk Norris Batherson
DeBrincat Stutzle Giroux
Motte Pinto Joseph
Crookshank Kastelic Watson
Extra: Kelly, Gambrell

To me both Crookshank & Kastelic looked more impressive than Kelly & Gambrell
Add Formenton!
 

Big Muddy

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Saby gets smoked - he’s a brutal fighter …. Which is why he doesn’t fight .. especially X.

If you don’t have someone to keep him in check he’ll run who ever he wants (he’s injured 2 players). Watson is the best option we have -
Well, back to the per usual themes again I guess.
 

Cosmix

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I am not sure that I understand the fascination with that "fight." It looked pretty uneventful to me. Was Watson even trying to win? Perhaps he just wanted to wrestle his opponent to a tie, which is probably not a bad strategy for him. Of course, it does not send much of a message.

I did not watch the game, but someone mentioned that the Habs were going after Stutzle. If my memory serves me well, the Buffalo Sabres used to follow a memorable standard of responsive behaviour: "If you go after our star players, we're not going after you, we're going after your star players," or something like that.

Having observed Ottawa's response to various attempts to intimidate its skilled/star players, the Senators seem to uphold a very different standard: if you go after our star players, we're going after you, but only with limited force because we want to stick to our game plan and not get distracted by too many shenanigans.

This approach has some benefits. It limits the chances of escalating a tit-for-tat cycle of retribution, which would be dangerous for everyone. Also, a cycle of retribution would be far more costly for a promising team like Ottawa, as compared to a team that has less to lose, like Montreal.

However, in the long run, after a team targets a star Senators player, and Ottawa's response is limited, other teams in the league might believe that they should try the same kind of intimidation tactics against Ottawa. If Ottawa continues with its current approach, it might become increasingly difficult for the team to change anyone's perception that the star players can be pushed around.

In summary, it's fine to talk about bringing in a heavyweight, but the team's approach to handling intimidation is just as important as its musclepower. Personally, I like the idea running up the score as a response to intimidation, but it's not always realistic.

The good news for Ottawa is that star players like Stutzle are fairly resilient and unphased by attempts to intimidate. He seems to be engaged no matter what comes his way.
Fight fire with fire! I like the Buffalo strategy you mentioned, but also want the big tough player who can respond to any attacks on our skill players.
 
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Bileur

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Fight fire with fire! I like the Buffalo strategy you mentioned, but also want the big tough player who can respond to any attacks on our skill players.

The best case scenario IMO is to have balance like the 05-06 Sens.

They can beat you in the street and run up the score or they can beat you in the alleyway if the first option doesn’t work. Pick your poison.

I think the skill is definitely there with this iteration and Tkachuk is a key piece in terms of toughness and physicality but we could still use more physicality, particularly on defense. Its one of the many reasons I have Kastelic over Brass and Gambrell.
 
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