Practice cancelled: Dubas to speak to media at 11:30

[SprDaVE]

Leafs had a bad month, time to crawl out from under our rocks I guess.

It really brought out the toxic people.

 

[Morbo]

It really brought out the toxic people.

Many of whom were nowhere to be found a month ago. Nothing to post about, after all.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Wow if "knowledgeable fans" are saying it it must be true

He's coached Detroit, Canada and the most talented Leafs team for decades

If you can't win something with that lot you'd be some kind of special

Just a question, what's he won recently and does his system work with this team? Including his PP "strategy"

His record with the leafs:

• 30 ~ 1st year
• 14 ~ 2nd year
• 7 ~ 3rd year
• 8 ~ currently

PP is 10 th in the league

 

[The CyNick]

You think the Leafs would get more first overall picks if Lou was GM? You'd want the Leafs to be that bad again?

Marner was a first overall pick?

 

[Menzinger]

And Anderson's, Marner's and Matthews.

I can play this game too.

Lou still has a first place team fyi

Because Lou deserves a single shred of credit for ether Marner or Matthews. Come on man lol. Good for him not trading the 1st overall pick I guess

 

[Suntouchable13]

In my opinion, the talent is spread too thin. Play JT, Matthews, Marner, Willy all 20 minutes a night consistently. Enough is enough. The big boys gotta play lots of minutes for this team to be truly successful.

 

[Kiwi]

His record with the leafs:

• 30 ~ 1st year
• 14 ~ 2nd year
• 7 ~ 3rd year
• 8 ~ currently

PP is 10 th in the league

The PP has turned into a smoking crater and hasn't worked for quite some time and Babcock hasn't won a playoff round since?

He isn't the person to coach this roster as it's currently constructed imo, we are a finesse, skill, non physical team and half the defenseman can't make a 15 foot outlet pass

Our system isn't making the best use of the players strengths and needs a serious rethinking, continuing to bang your head against the wall expecting something to change isn't cutting it

 

[Mr Hockey]

The PP has turned into a smoking crater and has Fletchern't worked for quite some time and Babcock hasn't won a playoff round since?

He isn't the person to coach this roster as it's currently constructed imo, we are a finesse, skill, non physical team and half the defenseman can't make a 15 foot outlet pass

Our system isn't making the best use of the players strengths and needs a serious rethinking, continuing to bang your head against the wall expecting something to change isn't cutting it

We get 1 or 2 PP a game and scoring once out of every 4 PP is considered very good, we win and lose games at 5-vs-5. PP goals are a bonus.

What's funny is you guys say he can only win with a stacked team, this Leaf team is heavily stacked with skill, similar to a "stacked team"

again, nothing wrong with our systems, we kicked Tampa's ass with the same system that lost last game.

Have you ever sat around in board room meeting with 10 or so company people discussing work and how to make things better? I'm sure Babcock and assistants/Dubas/Shany/Fletcher/analytics guys discuss the team/players/systems regularly.

 

[moon111]

In my opinion, the talent is spread too thin. Play JT, Matthews, Marner, Willy all 20 minutes a night consistently. Enough is enough. The big boys gotta play lots of minutes for this team to be truly successful.

Or keep on try to develop their skill-set, giving them that extra ice when they're complete players. Ice-time is a coach's best currency. Player's who don't have to fight for it, don't fight for it.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

The PP has turned into a smoking crater and hasn't worked for quite some time and Babcock hasn't won a playoff round since?

He isn't the person to coach this roster as it's currently constructed imo, we are a finesse, skill, non physical team and half the defenseman can't make a 15 foot outlet pass

Our system isn't making the best use of the players strengths and needs a serious rethinking, continuing to bang your head against the wall expecting something to change isn't cutting it

Defense gets the blame, but the forwards (or really the system that deploys them) are the larger issue. Defense can't make the pass if nobody is open, and those forwards are usually not open.

 

[meefer]

Maple Leafs promote Kyle Dubas to general manager - Sportsnet.ca

Key point from the article: it's date, May 11/18

In the 8 months Dubas has been GM, he hasn't fixed our D (we need a 1st pairing RD, now! And a 2nd pairing better option than Zaitsev!) We know after 20 games that this rookie GM can't negotiate a contract because he got bent over by Nylander, who's a bum, and heck we just know he's going to screw up on Matthews and Marner. And don't get me started on choosing Sparks over a 35 year old who is unsigned after this year because we all know CM would be able to take us to new heights if Andersen goes down in the playoffs. And WTF was he thinking signing Tavares at $11 when we could have kept K/M/B at $10.5 which would have given us another $.5 to spend on JVR, yeah! BTW, didn't he get the memo about grit and toughness? I guess he was too busy buying into that soft sh*t with Kappy and Johnsson, but he could have turned Brown and that overpaid bum Marleau (on his NTC) into 'jam'. Doesn't he realize that blockbuster trades get made all the time in the NHL, why isn't he leading the pack? Chia's licking his chops at dumping Larson for Zaitsev. Can't he see that this past month is all the proof he needs to realize that this team - the team that sits 8th overall in the league, and 2nd in it's division behind the best team we've seen in the cap era - is crumbling, folding like a cheap suitcase, and needs fixing asap. The clueless mop.

It's been 8 F*ckin' months! I'm sooooo mad right now I could spit!

 

[Mr Hockey]

Defense gets the blame, but the forwards (or really the system that deploys them) are the larger issue. Defense can't make the pass if nobody is open, and those forwards are usually not open.

Remember, opposing coaches/teams try and stop our offense, and transition game, we don't come to play with a defensive game plan, we have an offensive game plan, every game. We are always pushing forward

 

[Notsince67]

In my opinion, the talent is spread too thin. Play JT, Matthews, Marner, Willy all 20 minutes a night consistently. Enough is enough. The big boys gotta play lots of minutes for this team to be truly successful.

Willy? really? The fans will burn the arena down if he doesn't produce.

 

[hector morrison]

Maple Leafs promote Kyle Dubas to general manager - Sportsnet.ca

Key point from the article: it's date, May 11/18

In the 8 months Dubas has been GM, he hasn't fixed our D (we need a 1st pairing RD, now! And a 2nd pairing better option than Zaitsev!) We know after 20 games that this rookie GM can't negotiate a contract because he got bent over by Nylander, who's a bum, and heck we just know he's going to screw up on Matthews and Marner. And don't get me started on choosing Sparks over a 35 year old who is unsigned after this year because we all know CM would be able to take us to new heights if Andersen goes down in the playoffs. And WTF was he thinking signing Tavares at $11 when we could have kept K/M/B at $10.5 which would have given us another $.5 to spend on JVR, yeah! BTW, didn't he get the memo about grit and toughness? I guess he was too busy buying into that soft sh*t with Kappy and Johnsson, but he could have turned Brown and that overpaid bum Marleau (on his NTC) into 'jam'. Doesn't he realize that blockbuster trades get made all the time in the NHL, why isn't he leading the pack? Chia's licking his chops at dumping Larson for Zaitsev. Can't he see that this past month is all the proof he needs to realize that this team - the team that sits 8th overall in the league, and 2nd in it's division behind the best team we've seen in the cap era - is crumbling, folding like a cheap suitcase, and needs fixing asap. The clueless mop.

It's been 8 F*ckin' months! I'm sooooo mad right now I could spit!

Hmmm..... angry and wrong!

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Ok how about if I delete head hunter and just go with low skill goon or player hired because he is proficient at fighting only. I certainly would take Hyman over Colton Orr but the second coming of Wendel Clark would be better than both. I do not believe in a black or white, binary outcome world. But to each his own.

Sure, skill being equal, take the “tougher” player. I don’t believe in black or white binary world either, but what I don’t believe in is seeking a player acquisition revolving around “getting tougher” because you’ll lose that 100% of the time.

 

[Duke Silver]

Nobody is riled up pal.

To the best of my knowledge Yzerman never got bent over in a negotiation after having the player miss several months of the season and in the process make him and others around him ineffective because they lost whatever chemistry they had the previous season. Yzerman got guys on team friendly deals and they didn't miss a game. That's an example of an inexperienced GM who took his time working with a HoF GM and actually learned. Unlike our guy who either wasnt allowed at the big boy table when real negotiations were happening or thinks he's smarter than the HoF GM he replaced and went against his teachings.

The he could never win with me line exemplifies sheer ignorance on your part. What did I personally gain by being right (so far) about our young GM? I said the minute he was hired I hope he proves me wrong and does these amazing things that people who support him claim he can do (even though you never heard any specifics from those people). But so far he's gone beyond my expectations in terms of failure. I'm not happy about it, it's just factual.

I wish he would have followed Lou's example with Rielly and Kadri and got nylander locked in on time to a team friendly deal. Instead he got him locked up to an inflated number and deep into the season.

I wish he was as good as Lou was in identifying goaltending talent. Hell I wish he was as good as me at identifying goaltending talent. But instead he let perhaps the most effective backup in the league go in exchange for a guy destined for the ECHL. He also lost a mid round pick in there to boot.

I wish he would have done something to address our depth on D instead of just letting one of our depth guys go and getting nobody back to replace him.

I have no dog in the fight, I just want the best for my team. I didn't happen to believe our young GM was the best, so far I think it's pretty obvious I was right. Here's one for the archives, I hope he quickly learns his craft and turns around his career. No different than I hoped that of JFJ when he was hired as the young hot shot GM who was going to change the game. JFJ only got worse. I fear the same will happen here. Only time will tell though.

You may want to check to see when Kucherov signed. He missed the entire preseason and a few regular season games in that stalemate. Yzerman also got into a stalemate with Drouin which resulted in him sitting out a large portion of a season, which hampered his trade value.

How can you sit there and say I'm being ignorant for saying he could never win with you after you said this: "Should be interesting to see how long it takes you guys to catch up to me and see this guy for the fraud he is". And the fact that the minute he was hired you hoped you were wrong about him SHOWS you had your mind made up on him from the outset. That's strong language from someone trying to give off the impression of impartiality.

It takes two people to sign a contract. If Willy doesn't want to sign for a bargain bin price, Willy's not going to sign for a bargain bin price. It's as simple as that. Dubas did everything to bring the value down except put a gun to his head, and Willy still waited until 5 minutes before the deadline. I don't get how that's Dubas' fault, or Dubas not showing any stones. Not showing stones would have been giving Willy what he wanted in the late summertime or through the first quarter of the season, but then we'd be paying Willy $7.5-$8.0m per year, and you'd be on here lamenting about how Dubas blinked and gave up too much. Dubas was never going to win with you unless he signed Willy to some sort of non-sensical fantasy land version of a contract that has no basis in reality. This is what's called setting someone up to fail.

What would you have done differently, aside from simplistically saying "I would have signed him earlier" or "I would have signed him cheaper"? I have to laugh at the gall.

Rielly was less established as a player than Nylander was when he signed. Rielly had never crossed the 40-point mark in a season, never shown a lot of powerplay prowess, struggled with top-end competition, had never even played in a playoff game, and we didn't really know what he was going to be at the time. Kadri was coming off a down season with off-ice issues. Lou leveraged the uncertainty in both cases into long-term bargains. It was a smart move, but there was no doing that with a 21-year old with two 60-point seasons to his name. Those players are rare, if you didn't know.

Stop crying about a 35-year-old backup goaltender with a 0.914 save percentage this season. Sparks' 0.907 save percentage means he lets in one more goal every 4-5 games. It's a small difference, and with small sample sizes all it takes is a shutout from Sparks or a god-awful game from McElhinney to narrow that gap even more.

You absolutely do have a dog in this fight, because anyone who has followed what you've said on here since the day you signed up knows being proven smarter than anyone else is all that matters to you.

 

[rimshot]

Sure, skill being equal, take the “tougher” player. I don’t believe in black or white binary world either, but what I don’t believe in is seeking a player acquisition revolving around “getting tougher” because you’ll lose that 100% of the time.

Agreed, but you do not automatically lose skill by having a tough player like Ovie or Wendel and a skilled player can play tough minutes without being a goon or a rat. I also agree that you do not trade skill for toughness...that Russ Courtnall for John Kordic trade still makes me vomit in rage.

 

[Yablo21]

Dubas for Chiarelli E4

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Agreed, but you do not automatically lose skill by having a tough player like Ovie or Wendel and a skilled player can play tough minutes without being a goon or a rat. I also agree that you do not trade skill for toughness...that Russ Courtnall for John Kordic trade still makes me vomit in rage.

So we’re on the same page. But that doesn’t change the vast majority of conversations with posters who profess toughness who discuss it and bring it up in context of “answering the bell” and player injuries. And that we should trade <soft skilled player that didn’t get a point in out most recent loss> for a tougher player.

 

[meefer]

Hmmm..... angry and wrong!

Hmmm, all said tongue in cheek

 

[rimshot]

So we’re on the same page. But that doesn’t change the vast majority of conversations with posters who profess toughness who discuss it and bring it up in context of “answering the bell” and player injuries. And that we should trade <soft skilled player that didn’t get a point in out most recent loss> for a tougher player.

I guess I must have a lot of those posters on ignore. Basically, I was objecting to the notion, put forward by what seemed to be too many here, that skill and toughness are mutually exclusive. If that is not you...well, good to hear.

 

[indigobuffalo]

Also given both alternate captain designations.

Hyman is as reliable as CAA so it makes sense.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

So pretty much Dubas was essentially defending Gardiner as a GM should do for a group of rude and disrespectful fans and just through the topic of Matthew's contract negotiations to divert the topic of discussion.

 

[ACC1224]

Yes that's what burned the last year on his deal. We gave up a 1st, 2nd and a couple of prospects to have him play for us for half a season. A fools gambit at best.

Thankfully we don't have that kind of management now

Things were different back then, pre-cap was a different world.

 

[Al14]

Practice cancelled! Yeah, who needs to practice? You don't need to practice to lose!

Too bad our Leafs couldn't cancel a contract!