Practice cancelled: Dubas to speak to media at 11:30

ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
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Things were different back then, pre-cap was a different world.

I recall Leafs winning many playoff series in the Quinn era. The Leetch trade did not work out but you cannot judge that management team by one trade. Love what Shanny has done to date, but if memory serves he has not won a playoff series yet.
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
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I recall Leafs winning many playoff series in the Quinn era. The Leetch trade did not work out but you cannot judge that management team by one trade. Love what Shanny has done to date, but if memory serves he has not won a playoff series yet.
Nope and I would like to think that if they thought a ***Leetch quality player at some point could put them over the top, they would do what it took to bring the player in.

*** Before the between the lines readers jump in, not referring to this season.
 
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hullsy47

Registered User
Dec 7, 2005
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I recall Leafs winning many playoff series in the Quinn era. The Leetch trade did not work out but you cannot judge that management team by one trade. Love what Shanny has done to date, but if memory serves he has not won a playoff series yet.
pat burns And pat Quinn should've had Stanley cup final appearances
 
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al secord

Mustard Tiger
Jun 26, 2013
12,246
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Toronto
I can pretty well guarantee my decisions would be better than our current GM, but I would rather we turn to experts who have won championships and turned tire fires into potential dynasties. Unfortunately we let that guy go for Waldo and were paying for it. Sad.
And there you have it...
 
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GoldenGOOSE

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Jan 14, 2018
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How embarassing is it for Dubas, that he poached the best player on the Islanders, and his jilted mentor fled to the Islanders, and they sit ahead of us.

That has to just burn Dubas every night. I hope Lou offer sheets Marner, just to see the look on Dubas' face.

I liked Dubas a lot till he folded to the Nylander camp, just the worst move ever. He will forever be aligned with that fateful action.

I mean, didn't Kyle happen to notice that Nylander had basically put on about 30lbs? How did he think that was going to work out?

Phew, not a lot of due diligence on that one Kyle. Are lbs not on your corsi list? Jeez man. Bad move.
 

Nineteen67

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Dec 12, 2017
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I think its time we go back to another era. This one is crumbling and likely done.
Matthews is a piece of glass that doesn't try
Marner is a shrimp with a crazy dad
Tavares is old and slow
Kadri doesn't try
Willy is a waste
Our GM doesn't want to waste assets on knee jerk moves. He hasn't made a deal yet, so he probably never will.

What a mess. Time to choose an era to go back to. Ballard? JFJ? Burke? Good times Take your pick. They are better than this current one which is just starting and is already a mess.

You left out Cliff Fletcher and Pat Quinn. That’s the era we all can agree was the best.
 

Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
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How embarassing is it for Dubas, that he poached the best player on the Islanders, and his jilted mentor fled to the Islanders, and they sit ahead of us.

That has to just burn Dubas every night. I hope Lou offer sheets Marner, just to see the look on Dubas' face.

I liked Dubas a lot till he folded to the Nylander camp, just the worst move ever. He will forever be aligned with that fateful action.

I mean, didn't Kyle happen to notice that Nylander had basically put on about 30lbs? How did he think that was going to work out?

Phew, not a lot of due diligence on that one Kyle. Are lbs not on your corsi list? Jeez man. Bad move.

This place is meant for Leaf fans. Why don't you go crawl back into your cage.
 

GoldenGOOSE

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Jan 14, 2018
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Lets all agree on one thing, we have to take into effect, the cap. If there were no cap, we would have a whole team of fat willy's.

Pat Burns was the best coach Toronto ever had. Bar none. He had the whole team playing 200 feet hockey. Babcock can sure talk about it, but to actually see it? hahahahahah.
 

GoldenGOOSE

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Jan 14, 2018
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This place is meant for Leaf fans. Why don't you go crawl back into your cage.

Hmm, I thought it was intended for Toronto Maple Leaf discussion. If we are all here to flag wave, why not just walk around with Leaf jerseys all day long?

I mean come on dude. I love the Leafs, as I suppose you do, but there is a smell in the air, and its not all that pleasant.

Can we not discuss it politely?
 

Mess

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Feb 27, 2002
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I guess I must have a lot of those posters on ignore. Basically, I was objecting to the notion, put forward by what seemed to be too many here, that skill and toughness are mutually exclusive. If that is not you...well, good to hear.

Kyle Dubas is 33 years old.

If you go back +30 years before he was even born Wendel Clark captained the Leafs and scored at will and racked up > 200 pims while physically destroying the opposition with earth shattering hits.

Leafs fans that were around in the 1980's can relate to your post, and one could only imagine if the Leafs had a Wendel Clark on their NHL roster right now how dominating this Leafs team would be with only that 1 small tweak.

Rick Vaive scored 50+ goals in 3 straight years from 82-85 something no Leaf has come close to matching and played a dominating physical game.

Skill and toughness are not mutually exclusive and past Leafs have proven that, so that not every time the topic of toughness comes up are we referring to Colton Orr as the missing ingredient to our Leafs needs.
 
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Gary Nylund

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Oct 10, 2013
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Hmm, I thought it was intended for Toronto Maple Leaf discussion. If we are all here to flag wave, why not just walk around with Leaf jerseys all day long?

I mean come on dude. I love the Leafs, as I suppose you do, but there is a smell in the air, and its not all that pleasant.

Can we not discuss it politely?

If you're hoping for bad things to happen to the team just so you can see the look on the face of our GM, you don't love the Leafs. You need to grow up.

Kyle Dubas is 33 years old.

If you go back +30 years before he was even born Wendel Clark captained the Leafs and scored at will and racked up > 200 pims while physically destroying the opposition with earth shattering hits.

Leafs fans that were around in the 1980's can relate to your post, and one could only imagine if the Leafs had a Wendel Clark on their NHL roster right now how dominating this Leafs team would be with only that 1 small tweak.

LOL at adding a Wendel Clark to the to the roster being 1 small tweak.
 

Gabriel426

Registered User
Jun 30, 2015
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Since Dubas took over as GM, how many 1D or 2D and physical power forward with skills were actually traded or UFAs were available to sign?
James Neal could be one and he signed a contract the Leafs can’t afford with the Flames and he is struggling worst than Willie this year.
DaHaan might be another UFA but he is really to brag about and if Dubas signed him pretty sure a lot of us will either say he is over priced or the terms sucks.
EK, let’s stop before anything as there is no way Sens will trade him to us.
Hannifin, and Hamilton were direct trade between two teams.
 
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Durrr

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Sep 11, 2012
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Wow even the GM is now making comments about boo-gate. Plenty of athletes have gotten booed, I've never seen it made into such a big deal as this Gardiner bull****.

I'm worried he'll try to re-sign him more tbh if he subscribes to the school of thought that 'Gardiner does more good than bad'. I personally subscribe to the school of "you can't afford to hope that good/bad averages out in a limited sample size of a playoff series where mistakes are costly and that Gardiner's 'good' is overrated and replaceable to begin with."

We already know Dubas' and the management team's position on Gardiner, and it's not being swayed by fan opinion or "boo gate". They think he's a quality defender (because they actually look at the whole picture), and are going to put in an effort to sign him.

This doesn't mean they see him on the top pairing going forward, but they'd be literally asinine to not try and sign him to a reasonable deal. In the long run, he'd be our #4, hopefully paid around 6.25 tops.
 
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Erdinger

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Oct 6, 2011
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We already know Dubas' and the management team's position on Gardiner, and it's not being swayed by fan opinion or "boo gate". They think he's a quality defender (because they actually look at the whole picture), and are going to put in an effort to sign him.

This doesn't mean they see him on the top pairing going forward, but they'd be literally asinine to not try and sign him to a reasonable deal. In the long run, he'd be our #4, hopefully paid around 6.25 tops.
6.25 is way too high for the Leafs to be paying a #4D with their cap issues
 
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The CyNick

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Sep 17, 2009
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You may want to check to see when Kucherov signed. He missed the entire preseason and a few regular season games in that stalemate. Yzerman also got into a stalemate with Drouin which resulted in him sitting out a large portion of a season, which hampered his trade value.

How can you sit there and say I'm being ignorant for saying he could never win with you after you said this: "Should be interesting to see how long it takes you guys to catch up to me and see this guy for the fraud he is". And the fact that the minute he was hired you hoped you were wrong about him SHOWS you had your mind made up on him from the outset. That's strong language from someone trying to give off the impression of impartiality.

It takes two people to sign a contract. If Willy doesn't want to sign for a bargain bin price, Willy's not going to sign for a bargain bin price. It's as simple as that. Dubas did everything to bring the value down except put a gun to his head, and Willy still waited until 5 minutes before the deadline. I don't get how that's Dubas' fault, or Dubas not showing any stones. Not showing stones would have been giving Willy what he wanted in the late summertime or through the first quarter of the season, but then we'd be paying Willy $7.5-$8.0m per year, and you'd be on here lamenting about how Dubas blinked and gave up too much. Dubas was never going to win with you unless he signed Willy to some sort of non-sensical fantasy land version of a contract that has no basis in reality. This is what's called setting someone up to fail.

What would you have done differently, aside from simplistically saying "I would have signed him earlier" or "I would have signed him cheaper"? I have to laugh at the gall.

Rielly was less established as a player than Nylander was when he signed. Rielly had never crossed the 40-point mark in a season, never shown a lot of powerplay prowess, struggled with top-end competition, had never even played in a playoff game, and we didn't really know what he was going to be at the time. Kadri was coming off a down season with off-ice issues. Lou leveraged the uncertainty in both cases into long-term bargains. It was a smart move, but there was no doing that with a 21-year old with two 60-point seasons to his name. Those players are rare, if you didn't know.

Stop crying about a 35-year-old backup goaltender with a 0.914 save percentage this season. Sparks' 0.907 save percentage means he lets in one more goal every 4-5 games. It's a small difference, and with small sample sizes all it takes is a shutout from Sparks or a god-awful game from McElhinney to narrow that gap even more.

You absolutely do have a dog in this fight, because anyone who has followed what you've said on here since the day you signed up knows being proven smarter than anyone else is all that matters to you.

Did Kuch miss 30 games? Plus he ultimately signed a deal that looks good for the team. Our GM tried to negotiate hard and ultimately got bent over. So it's like a double loss.

Yzerman played hardball with Druoin and then fleeced Montreal in a trade. If our GM ever fleeced anyone in anything I'll be happy to heap praise on him.

I will fully admit I was against the Dubas hire. People come on here to read my opinion on things, so I provide that. I could shy away and say something like "I have no opinion", but that's not me. At the end of the day, I'm a fan of the team, so I'm happy to be wrong if it means we have success. But we're in a tailspin largely because of decisions our young GM made. I feel the organization would have been better off with Lou and Hunter. So far that appears to be the correct take. Since we're stuck with our young GM, I hope I'm wrong. But I would be the first to admit if I am. I'm not going to argue a position just to say I'm right. If our young GM made a trade that fleeced another team and that player won the Conn Smythe, I wouldnt argue it was a bad trade just because of who made it.

Regarding Willy, look up my previous posts on the subject, I highly recommend them. I have laid out on multiple occasions where I feel our young GM went wrong in the process and the final outcome. Essentially I would have shown the player more respect and not tried to negotiate through the media. I would have also held firm on fair market value, although I suspect it would have never got to that point.

Every signing is different. The point is they were high first round picks, just like nylander and they were signed to team friendly deals given their production and potential. Lou deserves tons of credit for the work he did there.

Look how many one goal games (minus ENs) we've lost. A few of those games flipping the other way make a huge difference at the end of the year. Could be the difference between in or out or home ice. Maybe you don't value those things, but I do.

I'm glad and appreciate that you follow so closely.
 

FlareKnight

Registered User
Jun 26, 2006
19,822
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Alberta
We already know Dubas' and the management team's position on Gardiner, and it's not being swayed by fan opinion or "boo gate". They think he's a quality defender (because they actually look at the whole picture), and are going to put in an effort to sign him.

This doesn't mean they see him on the top pairing going forward, but they'd be literally asinine to not try and sign him to a reasonable deal. In the long run, he'd be our #4, hopefully paid around 6.25 tops.
If we're paying our #4 D-man 6.25 million our cap situation is f***ed.

Dubas doesn't need to be swayed by much. Because in the end it is his job on the line. He screws it up and doesn't get this team where it wants to go then he's the one done. So best that he does focus on his beliefs and does the best he can. And hey if focusing on the positive of Gardiner and ignoring his critical flaws sounds like a winning plan for Dubas then best of luck to him.
 

Durrr

Registered User
Sep 11, 2012
5,592
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If we're paying our #4 D-man 6.25 million our cap situation is ****ed.

Dubas doesn't need to be swayed by much. Because in the end it is his job on the line. He screws it up and doesn't get this team where it wants to go then he's the one done. So best that he does focus on his beliefs and does the best he can. And hey if focusing on the positive of Gardiner and ignoring his critical flaws sounds like a winning plan for Dubas then best of luck to him.

I said "in the long run", for a reason, because that would likely be towards the end of his 5/6 year deal. In the short-term, he'd clearly be what he is now, a #2/3, 45-50 pt hybrid D-man.
 

CantLoseWithMatthews

Registered User
Sep 28, 2015
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Did Kuch miss 30 games? Plus he ultimately signed a deal that looks good for the team. Our GM tried to negotiate hard and ultimately got bent over. So it's like a double loss.

Yzerman played hardball with Druoin and then fleeced Montreal in a trade. If our GM ever fleeced anyone in anything I'll be happy to heap praise on him.

I will fully admit I was against the Dubas hire. People come on here to read my opinion on things, so I provide that. I could shy away and say something like "I have no opinion", but that's not me. At the end of the day, I'm a fan of the team, so I'm happy to be wrong if it means we have success. But we're in a tailspin largely because of decisions our young GM made. I feel the organization would have been better off with Lou and Hunter. So far that appears to be the correct take. Since we're stuck with our young GM, I hope I'm wrong. But I would be the first to admit if I am. I'm not going to argue a position just to say I'm right. If our young GM made a trade that fleeced another team and that player won the Conn Smythe, I wouldnt argue it was a bad trade just because of who made it.

Regarding Willy, look up my previous posts on the subject, I highly recommend them. I have laid out on multiple occasions where I feel our young GM went wrong in the process and the final outcome. Essentially I would have shown the player more respect and not tried to negotiate through the media. I would have also held firm on fair market value, although I suspect it would have never got to that point.

Every signing is different. The point is they were high first round picks, just like nylander and they were signed to team friendly deals given their production and potential. Lou deserves tons of credit for the work he did there.

Look how many one goal games (minus ENs) we've lost. A few of those games flipping the other way make a huge difference at the end of the year. Could be the difference between in or out or home ice. Maybe you don't value those things, but I do.

I'm glad and appreciate that you follow so closely.
you know losing/winning one goal games largely comes down to luck right? Unless you think Buffalo is the greatest team in the league because they won 10 games in a row off the back of mostly one goal games
 
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