Line Combos: Post your Line Combos (13-14)

[Habit11]

With a couple moves MB could really alter the makeup of the team without harming it long term.

If you want to move Desharnais then salary and term are definitely coming back. So you move DD for Volchenkov from NJD. Devils have depth on defence, and need offence badly. Volchenkov fills a need on defence with Emelin out, and he's at least a solid 3rd pairing defence who is better than what is currently slotted for the 3rd pairing. The downside is he has 3 years left on his term, and he isn't what he was, but he's the lesser of two evils and you aren't giving away DD for free.

I'd also move Moen for whatever. Even if he gets his game back it's too much salary for what he brings, and a team that could use someone like him with a ton of cap space can afford to overpay him, whereas a team that is tight to the cap shouldn't. Sign Morrow for $3.5m/2 yr term and sign a 4th line C like Smithson for cheap and a fully healthy lineup can look like this:

FORWARDS
Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) / Danny Briere ($4.000m) / Rene Bourque ($3.333m) (60% Starts in Ozone Line)
Brenden Morrow ($3.500m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m) (Tough Mins Line)
Alex Galchenyuk ($3.225m) / Lars Eller ($1.325m) / Brendan Gallagher ($0.870m) (Exploitation Line vs Opposing 3rd/4th Lines)
Brandon Prust ($2.500m) / Jerred Smithson ($0.700m) / Ryan White ($0.700m) (Dzone/PK/Energy Line)
George Parros ($0.938m)

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($2.000m)
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / P.K. Subban ($2.875m)
Jarred Tinordi ($1.083m) / Anton Volchenkov ($4.250m)
Francis Bouillon ($1.500m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.225m)

GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($6.500m)
Peter Budaj ($1.400m)
------

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,073,333; BONUSES: $2,697,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $924,167

The defence wouldn't be as small and weak, and if an injury happens you've got NHL caliber depth and not AHL rookies stepping in who may not be ready.

 

[Sterling Archer]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....=avgEvenStrengthTOIPerGame&viewName=timeOnIce

The gap is obviously bigger between the two Gallys and Plekanec and Gionta but those two were rookies (20 years old and 19 years old) so I expect Therrien to give him around 12:30-13 mins this season.

So you just proved my point and didn't bring up the rational of moving our leading scorer to the 3rd line.

 

[hogtownhabsfan*]

Morrow-Plekanec-Bourque
Pacioretty-Briere-Gallagher
Desharnais-Eller-Galchenyuk
Prust-Dumont/White/Parros
(IR-Gionta)

Gorges-Subban
Markov-Boullion
Tinordi-Diaz
Drewiskie
(IR-Emelin)

Price
Budaj

 

[Le Barron de HF]

So you just proved my point and didn't bring up the rational of moving our leading scorer to the 3rd line.

How did I prove your point? You said we never had a top 9 oriented offense 5 on 5, if you compare those numbers to teams like Tampa Bay who overload their top 6, you'll clearly see the difference in the way the ice time is spreaded for both teams. The reason why I'd move Pacioretty to minutes against soft opposition is that not only does he have the best chemistry with Desharnais but he's bad defensively and could exploit playing against weaker opposition (= more points, more penalty drawn, etc.)

I just re-read your post, so if from what I understand you'd rather have Pacioretty in Bourque's spot because he's more talented? That line (Gio, Plek and Bourque) was our most consistent one last one and did an excellent job at outscoring other team's top lines (check their QoC and their +/-). They were our best line at ES. Pacioretty has shown me that his defensive game (and his awareness in general) is putrid. I'd trust Bourque in a role like that over him.

 

[Sterling Archer]

How did I prove your point? You said we never had a top 9 oriented offense 5 on 5, if you compare those numbers to teams like Tampa Bay who overload their top 6, you'll clearly see the difference in the way the ice time is spreaded for both teams. The reason why I'd move Pacioretty to minutes against soft opposition is that not only does he have the best chemistry with Desharnais but he's bad defensively and could exploit playing against weaker opposition (= more points, more penalty drawn, etc.)

I just re-read your post, so if from what I understand you'd rather have Pacioretty in Bourque's spot because he's more talented? That line (Gio, Plek and Bourque) was our most consistent one last one and did an excellent job at outscoring other team's top lines (check their QoC and their +/-). They were our best line at ES. Pacioretty has shown me that his defensive game (and his awareness in general) is putrid. I'd trust Bourque in a role like that over him.

I did?

Maybe you should read my post again.

I said the 3rd line played less that their top line counterparts. Your link showed that the top line plays more. Close to 25% more which is substantial not to mention they play much harder minutes. Playing your top offensive player that many less minutes is a recipe for less offence, something Habs want desperately more of. Not to mention less size in the top six. Also something the Habs need more of.

As for Patches, if you think Bourque is a better player, well hey, that's your opinion and your entitled to it. I think you're crazy but that's me.

 

[Natey]

People still want Volchenkov? Wow. He's terrible.

I'd rather have that drunk guy that posted here last night play for us than Volchy.

People here already dislike Diaz and he's about 300x better and way cheaper.

 

[Habit11]

People still want Volchenkov? Wow. He's terrible.

I'd rather have that drunk guy that posted here last night play for us than Volchy.

People here already dislike Diaz and he's about 300x better and way cheaper.

He's not terrible, and he could provide a lacking physical element on defence that would be different from seeing opposing forwards literally push our defence into Price. He can still kill penalties and break even 5 on 5. DD however, is the more terrible of the two when you consider how soft his mins are and team needs on forward and defence, and hence the reason I wrote, "lesser of two evils". Like I said he's not what he was, but you either insulate a small forward in your top two lines while Pleks/Eller have to literally do all the heavy lifting or you acquire a guy like Volchenkov for the 3rd pairing when full team is healthy.

Would Volchenkov be my first pick in a 1 for 1 deal to move a redundant small forward on a less than desirable contract who got outplayed widely by Eller last year? Absolutely not. But good luck finding a player of better quality in return for DD without overpaying.

 

[hogtownhabsfan*]

I'm starting to warm to the idea of DD on the wing on a line with Eller and Galchenyuk.

 

[Halifaxhab*]

I'm starting to warm to the idea of DD on the wing on a line with Eller and Galchenyuk.

Id rather Briere on that line as he's a capable RW. We are stuck with DD at centre. But hopefully either his play improves drastically or he's moved for a Dman.

 

[AllanMTL46]

Bourque - Plekanec - Gionta
Pacioretty - Desharnais - Brière
Galchenyuk - Eller - Gallagher
Prust - White - Moen/Parros

Gorges - Subban
Markov - Tinordi
Bouillon - Diaz
Drewiske

Price
Budaj

Not too sure about that Gionta injury... If true, Prust inserted on third line.

 

[hogtownhabsfan*]

Id rather Briere on that line as he's a capable RW. We are stuck with DD at centre. But hopefully either his play improves drastically or he's moved for a Dman.

I think DD would be a great fit as a playmaking LW. Eller and Galchenyuk would get tons of chances, and would give Chucky a chance to play on his off wing.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

I did?

Maybe you should read my post again.

I said the 3rd line played less that their top line counterparts. Your link showed that the top line plays more. Close to 25% more which is substantial not to mention they play much harder minutes. Playing your top offensive player that many less minutes is a recipe for less offence, something Habs want desperately more of. Not to mention less size in the top six. Also something the Habs need more of.

As for Patches, if you think Bourque is a better player, well hey, that's your opinion and your entitled to it. I think you're crazy but that's me.

Obviously when I said that the team has a top 9 approach in the way they spread their ice time, you can't expect everybody's minutes to be identical. A team like Boston, who is known for their depth and the fact that any of their line can play a regular shift, have the same approach in their ice time. http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....=avgEvenStrengthTOIPerGame&viewName=timeOnIce these numbers are pretty similar to the ones I gave for the Canadiens forwards. Giving less minutes to their top offensive players doesn't seem to affect their offense that much since they scored the 11th most amount of goals in the league last season (2nd the year before). Here's the reality as to why Montreal can't give 16-17 mins a night to their top forwards, they're not talented enough. They don't have game breaking talent. Galchenyuk will be one of those talents in the upcoming years (could be as soon as next season) but for now only Pacioretty is one and he's not what I'd describe as elite. Montreal doesn't have a Vanek, a Giroux, a Crosby, a Ovechkin, a Kessel, a Spezza, a Tavares, a Staal, a Stamkos, etc. They don't have a superstar offensively so that's why Therrien gives his top 9 close to equal minutes. Like I pointed out, some of them play a bit more because they're more RESPONSIBLE defensively but it's not because they produce more offense.

As for the Bourque/Pacioretty comment, I never said Bourque was better than Pacioretty what I said is that I'd prefer Bourque in a such role (tough minutes) because he's proven that he can do it and he's a much more reliable option defensively.

 

[Natey]

He's not terrible, and he could provide a lacking physical element on defence that would be different from seeing opposing forwards literally push our defence into Price. He can still kill penalties and break even 5 on 5. DD however, is the more terrible of the two when you consider how soft his mins are and team needs on forward and defence, and hence the reason I wrote, "lesser of two evils". Like I said he's not what he was, but you either insulate a small forward in your top two lines while Pleks/Eller have to literally do all the heavy lifting or you acquire a guy like Volchenkov for the 3rd pairing when full team is healthy.

Would Volchenkov be my first pick in a 1 for 1 deal to move a redundant small forward on a less than desirable contract who got outplayed widely by Eller last year? Absolutely not. But good luck finding a player of better quality in return for DD without overpaying.

Why would we move DD for a worse contract and less useful player? Desharnais has been mediocre for a 20-30 games stretch. Volchy has sucked for awhile. He plays like 70 seconds per game on a team that really isn't all that deep defensively. There's a reason for it - he's terrible.

You'll actually find some DD supporters here or posters who just want to move him because we're too small. The Devils fans pretty much ALL want to move Volchy. He's an severely overpaid #6/#7. Kaberle is a better defenseman, by far, than Volchy. He'll, Drewiskie is probably better.

If we had to get rid of DD, I'd rather just waive him than take on that horrible defenseman and cap hit for years.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Obviously when I said that the team has a top 9 approach in the way they spread their ice time, you can't expect everybody's minutes to be identical. A team like Boston, who is known for their depth and the fact that any of their line can play a regular shift, have the same approach in their ice time. http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....=avgEvenStrengthTOIPerGame&viewName=timeOnIce these numbers are pretty similar to the ones I gave for the Canadiens forwards. Giving less minutes to their top offensive players doesn't seem to affect their offense that much since they scored the 11th most amount of goals in the league last season (2nd the year before). Here's the reality as to why Montreal can't give 16-17 mins a night to their top forwards, they're not talented enough. They don't have game breaking talent. Galchenyuk will be one of those talents in the upcoming years (could be as soon as next season) but for now only Pacioretty is one and he's not what I'd describe as elite. Montreal doesn't have a Vanek, a Giroux, a Crosby, a Ovechkin, a Kessel, a Spezza, a Tavares, a Staal, a Stamkos, etc. They don't have a superstar offensively so that's why Therrien gives his top 9 close to equal minutes. Like I pointed out, some of them play a bit more because they're more RESPONSIBLE defensively but it's not because they produce more offense.

As for the Bourque/Pacioretty comment, I never said Bourque was better than Pacioretty what I said is that I'd prefer Bourque in a such role (tough minutes) because he's proven that he can do it and he's a much more reliable option defensively.

Obvious or not, I'm going by what you said in your initial post. The top 6 plays more than the bottom six on the Habs.

By putting Bourque in the top 6 and Patches on the 3rd is a strange way to treat your best young forward after being one of the top producers for the last two years.

 

[Price My Man Crush]

No Coburn pl0x. No Volchenkov too. They are terrible.

And you guys hate Gorges & Bouillon. Oh booooooooooooooooy.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

Obvious or not, I'm going by what you said in your initial post. The top 6 plays more than the bottom six on the Habs.

By putting Bourque in the top 6 and Patches on the 3rd is a strange way to treat your best young forward after being one of the top producers for the last two years.

Why does it matter if he still gets top minutes on the PP?

 

[Analyzer*]

People still want Volchenkov? Wow. He's terrible.

I'd rather have that drunk guy that posted here last night play for us than Volchy.

People here already dislike Diaz and he's about 300x better and way cheaper.

Diaz is a clone of most of our dman.

Volchenkov is overpaid, but he still hits and plays the pk well.

 

[Habit11]

Why would we move DD for a worse contract and less useful player? Desharnais has been mediocre for a 20-30 games stretch. Volchy has sucked for awhile. He plays like 70 seconds per game on a team that really isn't all that deep defensively. There's a reason for it - he's terrible.

You'll actually find some DD supporters here or posters who just want to move him because we're too small. The Devils fans pretty much ALL want to move Volchy. He's an severely overpaid #6/#7. Kaberle is a better defenseman, by far, than Volchy. He'll, Drewiskie is probably better.

If we had to get rid of DD, I'd rather just waive him than take on that horrible defenseman and cap hit for years.

Worse contract and far less useful player are both debatable. DD has 4 years left as the smallest center in the league, who if all is fair should be the #3 on the depth chart of a Habs' team that is average down the middle in comparison to the rest of the league. So 3rd line center on an average depth chart for a 3rd pairing dman on an average depth chart. Both overpaid on too much term. Sounds like a wash.

But I agree with you that if they could trade him for a better player with a better contract or even a draft pick, that would be preferable. If they could put him on waivers, and someone grabbed him, that would be great too. I don't see the first two as likely scenarios, so I've skipped ahead and proposed a trade involving two players with contracts two teams would like a mulligan on.

I don't feel that Volchy is as terrible as most devil fans, he can hit, and kill penalties on a 3rd pairing, that's where I had him slotted. The Kaberle comparison is silly because Kaberle is afraid of contact and beyond useless in his own zone. That being said another player like him who is better would absolutely be welcome. Problem is overpaying to get someone better.

Bottom line is that next year's lineup needs to lose DD and add a dman who can bring an Emelin type game.

 

[ForeverHabs97]

With a couple moves MB could really alter the makeup of the team without harming it long term.

If you want to move Desharnais then salary and term are definitely coming back. So you move DD for Volchenkov from NJD. Devils have depth on defence, and need offence badly. Volchenkov fills a need on defence with Emelin out, and he's at least a solid 3rd pairing defence who is better than what is currently slotted for the 3rd pairing. The downside is he has 3 years left on his term, and he isn't what he was, but he's the lesser of two evils and you aren't giving away DD for free.

I'd also move Moen for whatever. Even if he gets his game back it's too much salary for what he brings, and a team that could use someone like him with a ton of cap space can afford to overpay him, whereas a team that is tight to the cap shouldn't. Sign Morrow for $3.5m/2 yr term and sign a 4th line C like Smithson for cheap and a fully healthy lineup can look like this:

FORWARDS
Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) / Danny Briere ($4.000m) / Rene Bourque ($3.333m) (60% Starts in Ozone Line)
Brenden Morrow ($3.500m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m) (Tough Mins Line)
Alex Galchenyuk ($3.225m) / Lars Eller ($1.325m) / Brendan Gallagher ($0.870m) (Exploitation Line vs Opposing 3rd/4th Lines)
Brandon Prust ($2.500m) / Jerred Smithson ($0.700m) / Ryan White ($0.700m) (Dzone/PK/Energy Line)
George Parros ($0.938m)

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($2.000m)
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / P.K. Subban ($2.875m)
Jarred Tinordi ($1.083m) / Anton Volchenkov ($4.250m)
Francis Bouillon ($1.500m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.225m)

GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($6.500m)
Peter Budaj ($1.400m)
------

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,073,333; BONUSES: $2,697,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $924,167

The defence wouldn't be as small and weak, and if an injury happens you've got NHL caliber depth and not AHL rookies stepping in who may not be ready.

Really diggin' this

 

[Sterling Archer]

Why does it matter if he still gets top minutes on the PP?

Lol. Ok.

 

[Mr. Hab]

What the coach may do (imo)...and will Briere be a winger/center?:

Bourque-Plekanec-Briere
Pacioretty-Desharnais-Galchenyuk
Prust-Eller-Gallagher
Moen-White-Parros
(IR-Gionta)

Gorges-Subban
Markov-Diaz
Tinordi-Bouillon
(IR-Emelin)

Price
Budaj
Fucale (2 1/2 - 3 yrs)

 

[Dominator13]

I sweat to god every line-up looks better with Desharnais out of it. I just CAN'T STAND HIM after what I saw in the last playoffs.

 

[durojean]

Pacioretty Eller Brière
Galchenyuk Plekanec Gallagher
Bourque Desharnais Gionta
Moen Prust Parros

Markov Subban
Diaz Tinordi
Bouillon Gorges

Price
Budaj

 

[Natey]

Worse contract and far less useful player are both debatable. DD has 4 years left as the smallest center in the league, who if all is fair should be the #3 on the depth chart of a Habs' team that is average down the middle in comparison to the rest of the league. So 3rd line center on an average depth chart for a 3rd pairing dman on an average depth chart. Both overpaid on too much term. Sounds like a wash.

But I agree with you that if they could trade him for a better player with a better contract or even a draft pick, that would be preferable. If they could put him on waivers, and someone grabbed him, that would be great too. I don't see the first two as likely scenarios, so I've skipped ahead and proposed a trade involving two players with contracts two teams would like a mulligan on.

I don't feel that Volchy is as terrible as most devil fans, he can hit, and kill penalties on a 3rd pairing, that's where I had him slotted. The Kaberle comparison is silly because Kaberle is afraid of contact and beyond useless in his own zone. That being said another player like him who is better would absolutely be welcome. Problem is overpaying to get someone better.

Bottom line is that next year's lineup needs to lose DD and add a dman who can bring an Emelin type game.

8th most TOI among defenseman on a non-playoff team making $4.25M per year. 'Nuff said.

 

[Habssince89]

I sweat to god every line-up looks better with Desharnais out of it. I just CAN'T STAND HIM after what I saw in the last playoffs.

It's so odd. He's a good one-dimensional offensive role player, but on a team like the habs he is simply an obstacle. He creates a log jam at C, he must be sheltered (which I think hurts the team in the end), and now has a difficult contract to move. He's an asset, but unless he can be moved to wing I just think he's a spare part, though to be fair it's not like he's garbage. The sooner one of DD or Gionta leave the roster, the easier it will be to maximize each lines effectiveness. I suppose we might just have to wait for Gio's contract to expire, and then after this season we can roll something like:

Pacioretty-Plek-Briere
DD-Eller-Bourque
Prust-Galchy-Gally
Moen-White-Parros/Dumont


Tinordi-Subban
Markov-Emelin
Gorges-Diaz
Pateryn

Price
Budaj

And that's without any additional moves that could likely happen (especially to the top9 and the defence.)