Blue Jays Discussion: post-deadline, back-at-home edition

[zeke]

Manoah
Kirk
Moreno
SWR
Orelvis
Pearson
Groshans
Martin
Hoglund
Smith

Is probably about how I had our top 10 before the trade. Though Orelvis was coming up fast on SWR.

 

[canucksfan]

Manoah
Kirk
Moreno
SWR
Orelvis
Pearson
Groshans
Martin
Hoglund
Smith

Is probably about how I had our top 10 before the trade. Though Orelvis was coming up fast on SWR.

Kirk over Moreno. Why is that?

 

[zeke]

Kirk over Moreno. Why is that?

Not sure people realize how good Kirk is? He's been one of the best hitters on the Jays at ages 21-22, and is a passable defensive catcher with the potential to be a good one? That is a crazy good prospect.

Moreno's 190wrc+ in AA at age 21 is amazing, but Kirk was posting a 166erc+ in MLB at age 21, and a 153wrc+ in A+ at age 20.

I can only think this is bias against him being short and fat.

Moreno might be better in the end but he's only a year younger than Kirk and is 2 levels behind him.

 

[as Pure as Evil]

We are short on pitching prospects

we drafted a ton this year so they will be coming

 

[kb]

Groshans 11/10/1999
Martin 3/23/1999

8 months.

But the point stands. He's currently 21, Martin is 22. And Groshans is as good or better in most categories, plus he can field his position.

I will never forget one of the Jays writers/bloggers saying that there were some real concerns surrounding Martin at the alternate site last year. From that moment on, I thought he might be trade bait.

 

[canucksfan]

Not sure people realize how good Kirk is? He's been one of the best hitters on the Jays at ages 21-22, and is a passable defensive catcher with the potential to be a good one? That is a crazy good prospect.

Moreno's 190wrc+ in AA at age 21 is amazing, but Kirk was posting a 166erc+ in MLB at age 21, and a 153wrc+ in A+ at age 20.

I can only think this is bias against him being short and fat.

Moreno might be better in the end but he's only a year younger than Kirk and is 2 levels behind him.

I really like Kirk but my concerns around him are speed, not that big of a deal, and his defense which is passable. I just like what Moreno can bring.

 

[metafour]

Otto Lopez was just promoted to Buffalo.

 

[Woodman19]

Kirk over Moreno. Why is that?

Depending on how you view readiness I can see rating Kirk over Moreno.

 

[weems]

Otto Lopez was just promoted to Buffalo.

How legitimate of a prospect is Lopez now?

He led the midwest league in hitting and now AA.

 

[metafour]

Depending on how you view readiness I can see rating Kirk over Moreno.

Kyle Glaser or whoever it was from BA that wrote that boner-worthy report on Moreno earlier this year mentioned that Moreno was basically already MLB ready, and that this was an opinion held by other evaluators that saw him. His injury prevented him from being at minimum up to AAA by now, but really, I don't think there's much difference in terms of "MLB readiness" between them.

 

[metafour]

How legitimate of a prospect is Lopez now?

He led the midwest league in hitting and now AA.

He's legitimate because he can really hit. Not to rag on Austin Martin too much, but "slap hitter" Otto Lopez actually hit for more power in AA this season. You have to ask yourself: if Austin Martin needs to figure out how to drive the ball or risk being just an "average" MLB hitter; what makes him different from Otto Lopez? Martin walks more than Lopez, but to date Lopez has shown to be a better "hitter".

 

[The Nemesis]

I don't get all the consternation over Vladdy sitting yesterday. They were playing the crap Royals throwing out their crappiest starter. If that's not the scenario in which you think "yeah, we've got more than enough offence to handle this and can give Vladdy a day off for the first time this season." then what is?

Management should never be making game decisions based on fan interest or expectation. The alternatives in order to serve the fan desire to have him play "because it's a sunday game and lots of people are watching!" would've meant resting him either before they returned home which would've been against the 2nd-in-the-division Red Sox who the Blue Jays are trying to chase down, or this series against a 2nd-in-their-division Cleveland club that's only trailing the Blue Jays by 3 games in the WC standings. What matters is the Jays contending for a playoff spot, not whether people at or watching the game on a Sunday afternoon did/didn't get to see Vladdy on that particular day.

Saw this on tweet and chuckled

This begs the obvious question: Which one of you guys owns that twitter account?

 

[dredeye]

This could end up being a sneaky good addition if he comes back strong. I think we all mostly figured he was done and didn't expect to see him play for us

 

[phillipmike]

This might be worse than John MacDonald traded for himself.

 

[trellaine201]

Biggio has such a smooth swing. How come he can’t hit?

 

[metafour]

Biggio has such a smooth swing. How come he can’t hit?

 

[zeke]

How legitimate of a prospect is Lopez now?

He led the midwest league in hitting and now AA.

Babip boosting him at a way high level but he's always been a personal fsve despite his lack of power. Tbh he's performed about as well as and with similar weaknesses as Austin Martin.

 

[canucksfan]

 

[Morgs]

I posted the strike zone in the GDT but man seeing it again this might be the worst ball call vs the Jays all season. Luckily it didn't hurt at all, but damn that was right down the middle.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Finally a stud prospect in Vancouver. Kloff and CJ Van Eyk have been sub par this year and the offense hasn't had any high ranking prospects in the lineup. In the past it's felt the same under the old system, apart from the odd College 1st round pick to spend a month or so there the best short season guys often tended to jump Vancouver to get full season time.

 

[Anthrax442]

This might be worse than John MacDonald traded for himself.

 

[Discoverer]

I posted the strike zone in the GDT but man seeing it again this might be the worst ball call vs the Jays all season. Luckily it didn't hurt at all, but damn that was right down the middle.

Awful... and not even the "poor framing" excuse when a catcher has to lunge for it. Not that Kirk framed it well or anything, but that's normal movement when a pitcher misses his spot and that's middle of the plate at the belt.

 

[phillipmike]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-zips-trade-deadline-reshuffle/

Toronto Blue Jays
Getting José Berríos was a big deal and the injured bullpen looks a lot deeper than it did a week ago, even if the Blue Jays didn’t add anyone of Craig Kimbrel’s stature. As with the Dodgers and Turner, this was as much about 2022 as 2021; the Blue Jays can cross a starting pitcher off this winter’s shopping list.

Jays increased their playoffs odd by 1.6% according to ZiPs which is 5th best. The only American League team who increased their odds more than the Jays was the Yankees with a staggering 8.7% increase.

Oakland somehow lost -2.2% but they remaining the favourites for the final WC spot with the Yankees 6th in the AL and the Jays finishing 7th.

 

[The Nemesis]

Terrible news, but... bullet dodged for the Jays?

 

[phillipmike]

Terrible news, but... bullet dodged for the Jays?

Well that’s f’n awful. Didn’t the same thing happen to him in 2018?