Player Discussion Podkolzin (PbK) Thread Part 5

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

The Canucks won’t be able to call up Vasily Podkolzin (unless they put him on to the opening roster) due to performance bonuses

Vasily Podkolzin did not make the Vancouver Canucks out of Training Ca...

canucksarmy.com

 

[northwestrcomfort]

I agreed with most of your post,..but there seems to be a bit of revisionism as far as what the posters here wanted..Here is the poll from 2019 pre draft..

#1 Jack Hughes 54%
#2 Kaapo Kakko 95.1%
#3 Bowen Byram 77.2%
#4 Alex Turcotte 52.9%
#5 Dylan Cozens 27.4%
#6 Kirby Dach 38.8%
#7 Matthew Boldy 33.0%
#8 Visali Podkolzin 32.9%
#9 Trevor Zegras 34.4%
#10 Peyton Krebs 35.6%
#11 Cole Caufield 47.2%
#12 Alex Newhook 71.4%
#13 Philip Broberg 35.6%
#14 Victor Soderstrom 33.9%
#15 Ville Heinola 46.9%
#16 Moritz Seidar 33.3%
#17 Arthur Kaliyev 31.5%
#18 Cam York 28.3%
#19 Raphael Lavoie 34.2%
#20 Thomas Harley 51.9%
#21 Bobby Brink 53.8%
#22 Ryan Suzuki 29.0%
#23 Spencer Knight 34.6%
#24 Philip Tomasino 34.5%
#25 Nils Hoglander 24.0%

Lol dope. People are so full of it. Pod was a fine pick. I wanted a d man but chose maybe the worst in Soderstrom.

 

[Nucker101]

Maybe we can stop picking "energy" players in the first round.. Boldy was the obvious pick.

The hilarious part is that Boldy is a very good forechecker

 

[sting101]

Wrote this up before the 2019 draft

• Mar 28, 2019

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• #744

Dach is an impressive prospect. He has as much potential as anyone in this draft year IMO but also has hurdles he has to overcome that he may never.

IQ and talent is easily on a top PP unit with any respectable work ethic.

Have watched a tonne of video lately (because i could care less about garbage time for the Canucks) and have seen the WHL guys live at least a few times except Krebs. Kakko Podkolzin Hughes live as well as video and just video for Turcotte Boldy Newhook and Zegras so it is what it is....a poorly educated opinion as far as orders but this is how i feel currently.

1- Jack Hughes - i'm really curious to see this going forward and i believe how Quinn looks may have some bearing on the unique style that the brothers play and my opinion of it. I would actually be a little nervous based on how week he is and how he is gonna be able to get to the prime scoring areas especially as a centre. Could easily be a Kane/Gaudreau and have to believe that this is what the scouts see who are relentless in having him 1st overall (sticking with the consensus)

2- Kappo Kakko - was thoroughly impressed at the U20's and just continues to set the kind of standards that a front line all star forward would in Liiga play and in everything he's done to date. Somewhat of a cross between Rantanen and Landeskog for me and a beauty consolation prize in the lottery who is NHL ready.

3- Bowen Byram - Hard to find any flaws in this kids game that doesn't come with just a little more consistency and attention to detail defensively. Rielly/MacAvoy hybrid for me and could be as impactful long term as some of the best BC born defenseman to play the game. Probably 1 more year of junior then plug and play 1st pairing defender.

4- Kirby Dach - (See above) Watching some of his playoffs is just adding to my liking for this player. Dont see the skating issues as he can move well enough. Do get some of the acceleration concerns but when you watch Draisaitl Stone Getzlaf dominate with smarts IQ anticipation and tremendous ability to protect and outreach opponents and see Dach's shot i could see him as high as 3 if a team likes him enough.

5. Trevor Zegras - Love this guys talent. Off the charts hands and IQ offensively. Am still getting a feel for his overall game. reminds me of Doug Weight/Kyle Connor and could be 1LW if not a top centre.

6- Alex Turcotte - similar to Zegras but more refined and this is just my feeling but may be more of a 2c instead of a 1st liner which i feel Zegras could develop into. Both excellent bets and highly exciting and talented. Comp Dylan Larkin....not as fast

7. Dylan Cozens - Scouts seem a little higher on Cozens than i am. Dont see 1st line upside and has a bit of a questionable IQ and quickness of the stick. Other than that though a excellent skater with a great shot and big frame. See him as a Jeff Carter type if all goes well which is an excellent addition just not a 1st liner on a really good team without turning into a stud defensively.

8. Matthew Boldy - kid has made some huge strides physically this year and has a massive upside because of it. Would have questioned his skating earlier but not from what i've seen recently. Has a wicked shot and can power or finesse through defenseman as well has good vision and size/strength. Very close to Cozens for me. Working on more viewing to clear up my feelings on the USDP guys.

9. Vasily Podkolzin - Only have him here due to consensus and old viewings where he dominated against kids. Was not impressed at the U20s. Seems like a well rounded solid player without a standout quality. Scouts like him a lot? things drop a bit for me at 8 so here he is at 9.

10. Payton Krebs - a lot to like about this player but then you look at his stats and see -50 and 19goals and start to wonder why the hell would anyone rate him so high?
He has really made some leaps in development and seems to have a lot of pro like traits but at 5'11 without elite skills you wonder what is the upside and why would he rate higher than a guy like Caufield who scores at an alarming rate. Unfortunately i didnt get to see a tonne of Krebs this year but his IQ overall game tempo and playmaking are excellent and still is top10 for me as he looks like he could be Jaden Schwartz for someone. Really risky pick

Hoping at worst we are top8 and can get one of the top8 i posted. Team desperately needs some speed skill power game up front and if Boldy or Cozens are whats left then i would be pretty satisfied. Anything else i would consider a bonus. Still almost 3months to pick it apart.

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

The Podkolzin pick wasn’t a Benning pick if my memory serves correct. I recall reading that Benning wanted Broberg, and once he was off the board, wanted to trade down but our scouts convinced him to take Podkolzin at 10th overall.

It am pretty sure it was a Brackett pick. I think their is a video of Benning asking Brackett if he wants to trade because the Coyotes wanted to move up to take Soderstrom (ended up trading with Flyers), and Brackett says their is one player left on the board that we like and that was Podkolzkin who had he not been there they would have traded down.

canucks-had-options-but-were-sold-on-russian-vasili-podkolzin

 

[bandwagonesque]

It am pretty sure it was a Brackett pick. I think their is a video of Benning asking Brackett if he wants to trade because the Coyotes wanted to move up to take Soderstrom (ended up trading with Flyers), and Brackett says their is one player left on the board that we like and that was Podkolzkin who had he no been there they would have traded down.

canucks-had-options-but-were-sold-on-russian-vasili-podkolzin

There's also a long video of Brackett explaining in detail why he thought Podkolzin was the right pick and how excited he and his staff were he was available.

 

[biturbo19]

Bolded is not really true. Green was the only coach to get quality play out of Hoglander and in retrospect, his gradual increase in responsibility given to Horvat over his career seemed to be an optimal development path for him.

The "best hockey" Green got out of Hoglander though, was when he first arrived. Fresh out of Europe. He more or less got progressively worse, the longer he was exposed to Travis Green's "coaching". Until he was basically...well on his way to the limbo he's in now.

I don't think the absolute ineptitude with Green is a factor you can completely ignore when it comes to how Podkolzin went from "showing a little bit of promise" to...the absolute basket case, overcoached, confused, tentative looking mess he is today. Especially when you realize both of these guys have not only suffered for Green being a truly worthless coach...but they've also been yanked around with a smorgasbord of other coaches over their young careers between Bruce, Ricky, and their time in the minors.

I agreed with most of your post,..but there seems to be a bit of revisionism as far as what the posters here wanted..Here is the poll from 2019 pre draft..

#1 Jack Hughes 54%
#2 Kaapo Kakko 95.1%
#3 Bowen Byram 77.2%
#4 Alex Turcotte 52.9%
#5 Dylan Cozens 27.4%
#6 Kirby Dach 38.8%
#7 Matthew Boldy 33.0%
#8 Visali Podkolzin 32.9%
#9 Trevor Zegras 34.4%
#10 Peyton Krebs 35.6%
#11 Cole Caufield 47.2%
#12 Alex Newhook 71.4%
#13 Philip Broberg 35.6%
#14 Victor Soderstrom 33.9%
#15 Ville Heinola 46.9%
#16 Moritz Seidar 33.3%
#17 Arthur Kaliyev 31.5%
#18 Cam York 28.3%
#19 Raphael Lavoie 34.2%
#20 Thomas Harley 51.9%
#21 Bobby Brink 53.8%
#22 Ryan Suzuki 29.0%
#23 Spencer Knight 34.6%
#24 Philip Tomasino 34.5%
#25 Nils Hoglander 24.0%

Yeah. I didn't love the Podkolzin pick personally, but it really is revisionist to claim he was some sort of "reach" or that there was some obvious "consensus" guy to take there. People love doing that when a guy doesn't pan out...but at the time, Podkolzin had plenty of support in all corners to go right around where we picked him, if not higher. All of the other considerations at that pick had their own significant questionmarks or red flags as well.

Even if you pretend that Boldy was some obvious overwhelming "consensus" Boldy was (he clearly was not)...People after the fact love to jump out of their seats to talk about how "obvious" Boldy was. But hush up about how they overwhelmingly would've ran to the podium to grab Turcotte over him in a heartbeat.

 

[bossram]

The "best hockey" Green got out of Hoglander though, was when he first arrived. Fresh out of Europe. He more or less got progressively worse, the longer he was exposed to Travis Green's "coaching". Until he was basically...well on his way to the limbo he's in now.

I don't think the absolute ineptitude with Green is a factor you can completely ignore when it comes to how Podkolzin went from "showing a little bit of promise" to...the absolute basket case, overcoached, confused, tentative looking mess he is today. Especially when you realize both of these guys have not only suffered for Green being a truly worthless coach...but they've also been yanked around with a smorgasbord of other coaches over their young careers between Bruce, Ricky, and their time in the minors.

How are you ascribing Podkolzin's development to Green? Just a frankly bizarre comment. Podz spent like 20 games with him before Green was fired and replaced with Boudreau.

And again, extremely bizarre comment about Hoglander. It is a fact that Hoglander played his best and produced best under Green. It's a strange bit of 4D chess you're trying to string together to claim that his development collapsed because of the "residual Green effect" after Green was fired. Green was the only coach to give Hoglander a real look and let him play.

I don't even like Green. But these are just wild and hilarious claims being made about him.

 

[LemonSauceD]

The Podkolzin pick wasn’t a Benning pick if my memory serves correct. I recall reading that Benning wanted Broberg, and once he was off the board, wanted to trade down but our scouts convinced him to take Podkolzin at 10th overall.

I believe it was Zegras Benning wanted to draft.

Or it was Judd Brackett, can’t exactly remember, but I believe there were rumours they wanted to trade up to draft Zegras. I’ll try and find it.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Yeah. I didn't love the Podkolzin pick personally, but it really is revisionist to claim he was some sort of "reach" or that there was some obvious "consensus" guy to take there. People love doing that when a guy doesn't pan out...but at the time, Podkolzin had plenty of support in all corners to go right around where we picked him, if not higher. All of the other considerations at that pick had their own significant questionmarks or red flags as well.

Even if you pretend that Boldy was some obvious overwhelming "consensus" Boldy was (he clearly was not)...People after the fact love to jump out of their seats to talk about how "obvious" Boldy was. But hush up about how they overwhelmingly would've ran to the podium to grab Turcotte over him in a heartbeat.

Agreed, there's no obvious anything when it comes to the draft (unless you're a generational player)....Elias Pettersson was voted as the #9 pick in the 2017 HF Canuck pre draft poll.

I'm even starting to see a steady trickle of posts now about how the Canucks blew their last pick by not selecting Benson (who is showing very well in the Sabres pre season).

 

[biturbo19]

How are you ascribing Podkolzin's development to Green? Just a frankly bizarre comment. Podz spent like 20 games with him before Green was fired and replaced with Boudreau.

And again, extremely bizarre comment about Hoglander. It is a fact that Hoglander played his best and produced best under Green. It's a strange bit of 4D chess you're trying to string together to claim that his development collapsed because of the "residual Green effect" after Green was fired. Green was the only coach to give Hoglander a real look and let him play.

I don't even like Green. But these are just wild and hilarious claims being made about him.

I'm saying, Hoglander played his best hockey before he'd ever really been "coached up" by Green. He progressively got worse until he was looking absolutely lost under Green, before he was finally fired. That isn't a coach "developing" a player. That's a guy succeeding in spite of his rubbish coaching, but eventually starting to be dragged down by it...before being run through the ringer with the tumultuous coaching changes that have followed from that.

As to Podkolzin...coming over he looked alright. Then getting terrible coaching from Green, then getting tossed into a revolving door of other new coaches when he was fired...has clearly had a major impact on Podkolzin's game. It's not all on Green...but his ineptitude combined with the ridiculous coaching carousel that resulted, is pretty clearly a major factor...for both of these guys.


That's not absolving them of their own responsibility in their development. But it's a part of explaining how we've got to here with two guys who both looked better before they even really got involved with Green, and our coaching mess in general.


I think you're wildly underrating just how truly shit Travis Green was as a coach.

 

[bossram]

I'm saying, Hoglander played his best hockey before he'd ever really been "coached up" by Green. He progressively got worse until he was looking absolutely lost under Green, before he was finally fired. That isn't a coach "developing" a player. That's a guy succeeding in spite of his rubbish coaching, but eventually starting to be dragged down by it...before being run through the ringer with the tumultuous coaching changes that have followed from that.

As to Podkolzin...coming over he looked alright. Then getting terrible coaching from Green, then getting tossed into a revolving door of other new coaches when he was fired...has clearly had a major impact on Podkolzin's game. It's not all on Green...but his ineptitude combined with the ridiculous coaching carousel that resulted, is pretty clearly a major factor...for both of these guys.


That's not absolving them of their own responsibility in their development. But it's a part of explaining how we've got to here with two guys who both looked better before they even really got involved with Green, and our coaching mess in general.


I think you're wildly underrating just how truly shit Travis Green was as a coach.

I don't think Green is a good coach. I'm just combatting the most wild and outlandish claims I've seen of him.

Green had barely any interaction with Podz. He coached him for roughly 20 games right when he came over and that's it. What does his development in the past season+ have to do with Green?

And with Hoglander, your claim is that he pretty much ruined him, getting worse over time...despite Hoglander playing his best under Green, playing his worst in the NHL under Bruce, and getting sent down under Tocchet. It just doesn't square up, at all.

There's a ton of things to criticize Green for. Why you've made the development of Hoglander and Podkolzin your line in the sand is just bizarre.

 

[biturbo19]

I don't think Green is a good coach. I'm just combatting the most wild and outlandish claims I've seen of him.

Green had barely any interaction with Podz. He coached him for roughly 20 games right when he came over and that's it. What does his development in the past season+ have to do with Green?

And with Hoglander, your claim is that he pretty much ruined him, getting worse over time...despite Hoglander playing his best under Green, playing his worst in the NHL under Bruce, and getting sent down under Tocchet. It just doesn't square up, at all.

There's a ton of things to criticize Green for. Why you've made the development of Hoglander and Podkolzin your line in the sand is just bizarre.

Hoglander in particular, was well on his way to looking lost and broken of his initial zip, well before Bruce came in. Part of that was chalked up at the time to, "ahhh, he's a rookie maybe he's just burnt out from the long season". But coming out of camp that sophomore year, he looked like Green had fully cooked his hockey brain.

Again...you say he played his best hockey under Green, but that was also not coincidentally the period where he'd had the least exposure to his coaching. Coming in cold. Then getting progressively worse. That's not some ringing endorsement for Travis Green "getting the most out of someone" like you're suggesting.


Podkolzin's case is a little bit different...but it's still a clear factor, when his game looks so mentally fragmented. Getting 20 games or whatever under Green...trying to conform to that nonsense, only to get jerked around with a whiplash change to Boudreau, then bounced around to even more coaches. That one you really can't pin on Green entirely by any means...but he was absolutely part of the equation that led us here. Bad initial coaching can absolutely set young players off on the wrong path. Especially when the path has a whole bunch of other constant abrupt changes of direction and faults to fall into.

 

[The Stig]

How many teams bust out on a

5th overall
6th overall
10th overall

In a 7 year span?




All I hear is excuses. He’s in his draft +4 year. If he has not figured it out as a 10th overall pick by now, he’s not going to. Sure he could take longer to develop but he’s going backwards. No development. He will be in the KHL next year never to be seen again. Another miss that drags the team back 5 years.

Oilers did this in a 5 year span:

2007 15th overall - Alex Plante
2007 6th overall - Sam Gagne
2009 10th overall - Magnus Paajarvi
2012 1st overall - Nail Yakupov

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Oilers did this in a 5 year span:

2007 15th overall - Alex Plante
2007 6th overall - Sam Gagne
2009 10th overall - Magnus Paajarvi
2012 1st overall - Nail Yakupov

Chicago did this in 5 years

2000 10th …Mikael Yakubov
2004 3rd..Cam Barker
2005…7th…Jack Skille

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

Chicago did this in 5 years

2000 10th …Mikael Yakubov
2004 3rd..Cam Barker
2005…7th…Jack Skille

Canucks legend Cam Barker lmfao

 

[RobertKron]

Canucks legend Cam Barker lmfao

Canucks legend Jack Skille

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Oilers did this in a 5 year span:

2007 15th overall - Alex Plante
2007 6th overall - Sam Gagne
2009 10th overall - Magnus Paajarvi
2012 1st overall - Nail Yakupov

Yah and the oilers have the 2 best players in the world and haven’t won f*** all.

 

[biturbo19]

Canucks legend Jack Skille

Skille was actually pretty decent as a 4th line grinder for a little while, around his little stint in Vancouver.

In some ways...his development is something that Podkolzin could probably learn a thing or two from. Drafted as more of a skilled Skille guy with scoring upside...he really put in the work to reinventing himself as just a "go out, crash and bang, play simple" sort of grinder. Which is kind of what we need Podkolzin to register at some point.

 

[ChilliBilly]

Yah and the oilers have the 2 best players in the world and haven’t won f*** all.

A little sad with where they have drafted

2010 - 12 1st OA 3 years running Hall Nugent-Hopkins Yakupov
2013 7th OA
2014 3rd OA Draisaitl
2015 1st OA McGod
2016 4th OA

4 1st OA while the Canucks have never drafted that high. 7 straight years where their lowest pick was 7th OA

 

[StickShift]

Skille was actually pretty decent as a 4th line grinder for a little while, around his little stint in Vancouver.

In some ways...his development is something that Podkolzin could probably learn a thing or two from. Drafted as more of a skilled Skille guy with scoring upside...he really put in the work to reinventing himself as just a "go out, crash and bang, play simple" sort of grinder. Which is kind of what we need Podkolzin to register at some point.

Is the issue really that Podkolzin isn’t working out as a skill player? I thought the issue was that his reads and routes weren’t at an NHL level. That’s going to affect a player whether they play a skill-game or a crash/bang-game.

 

[Diversification]

Is the issue really that Podkolzin isn’t working out as a skill player? I thought the issue was that his reads and routes weren’t at an NHL level. That’s going to affect a player whether they play a skill-game or a crash/bang-game.

Pod's problem is that he's not decisive, which means he's late, which means he's reacting. His decision making when he's decisive is pretty good, but as soon as he makes a decision that results in scoring chance against, he goes back to being indecisive.

What Pod needs to do is learn the power of IDGAF. Just play, be present in the moment, let his tools and his talent take the wheel. The only adjustments he should be making is fine tuning those instincts in the moment for the next shift, not consciously picking through things the way a more cerebral player might.

 

[biturbo19]

Is the issue really that Podkolzin isn’t working out as a skill player? I thought the issue was that his reads and routes weren’t at an NHL level. That’s going to affect a player whether they play a skill-game or a crash/bang-game.

It's really just about Podkolzin learning to play a more simple, instinctive game like @Diversification suggests above. That's sort of what Skille learned to do later in his career. Dropping the pretense of trying to make a creative, skilled play, forgoing the intention to make a "clever" read defensively...just doing the simple thing and be active rather than reactive.

Though there's also a good chance that Podkolzin's instincts are better, and if he's playing within those...he actually ends up looking like a more skilled player in the process. It's about just playing simple, instinctive, quick read hockey. With more of a "bottom-6 energy role" mentality. Don't try to play a "flashy skilled top-6 game" or make the "perfect play" or "perfect read" and ultimately, it'll probably make him look more like a "top-6 winger".

 

[ChilliBilly]

I hope we don't trade him to "sweeten a deal" or for another reclamation project. I think he legitimately has the potential to be a decent middle 6 player. Anything now would be trading him for a low value.

The Canucks have done a ton of this. The Horvat trade is one of the few exceptions ....

lets hope Raty works out. If he doesn't we traded Horvat for Beauvilier and 65% of Hronek.

It is just too early to give up on this guy. I think everyone can agree that our hope of him being the "steal of the draft" is now nothing but a pipe dream. But he could still turn out to be a very useful cog in the. machine.

 

[LemonSauceD]

I hope we don't trade him to "sweeten a deal" or for another reclamation project. I think he legitimately has the potential to be a decent middle 6 player. Anything now would be trading him for a low value.

The Canucks have done a ton of this. The Horvat trade is one of the few exceptions ....

lets hope Raty works out. If he doesn't we traded Horvat for Beauvilier and 65% of Hronek.

It is just too early to give up on this guy. I think everyone can agree that our hope of him being the "steal of the draft" is now nothing but a pipe dream. But he could still turn out to be a very useful cog in the. machine.

Yes exactly. I’m very much on the keep Podkolzin camp.

I just don’t see how he doesn’t turn out to be at least a 3rd line guy. I mean he’s still 22. Maybe I’m just being hopeful, but he still has the necessary qualities you want out of a bottom 6 NHL’er. I don’t think he’s far away from being that.

A year in the AHL being the #1-3 forward should be good for him. Being put in all situations playing 18-20 minutes a night. Put him on the PP, PK, 3 on 3, 5 on 3, whatever it is. He’s been playing 10 minutes a night pretty much ever since he’s been 17 years old. He’s gone through 4-5 different coaches dating back to Russia. Too much learning and unlearning. I get why he’s super indecisive and scared to make plays. Poor kids been conditioned to play like that or risk getting benched.

I want to see him play. Just let the guy do his thing. Get him used to every single situation there is. Let him give the puck away 10 times if he has to make that 1 play that results in a goal. Obviously I’m exaggerating here, but I’m also kind of serious.