Player Discussion Podkolzin (PbK) Thread Part 5

Pastor Of Muppetz

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I’m feeling pretty pessimistic about Podkolzin’s future with the Canucks. Their last chance will be a mid-season call-up. Unfortunate reality is that his contract is up after this year and he will probably go back to the KHL where he can earn.

Podkolzin knows this, Canucks know this.

They will probably trade him before the deadline—just like how Kravstov was last year. Sadly, just like Kravstov again, his value around the league has probably plummeted to not much more than a late round pick.
I dont think they will trade him this season..Kravtsov was always at odds with the NYR coaching staff/ management.

Not the case here,..Podz has an excellent attitude, and willingness to work..Liked by Coaching staff and players..This will give him a longer leash imo.
 

VanJack

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So Podz is Abbotsford bound, along with a dozen other guys today. And obviously won't play in any of the two final exhibition games.

As good as Bains, Studnicka and McWard have been in training camp so far, there's always at least one guy who dramatically underachieves.

I'd leave him Abbotsford until he dominates in the AHL. If he doesn't, then they're in a world of trouble with this pick.
 

F A N

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Kempe was a big, fast, pretty reliable 30-40pt two-way middle-6 grinder type from pretty much as soon as he stepped foot in the NHL full time though. Before he suddenly spent a summer developing an absolutely lethal shot and found his offensive footing.

If Podkolzin could play like Kempe did in his first real full year in the NHL...i think most people would be over the moon at this point. That's a darn good, very useful player. Exactly the sort of guy our Top-9 is sorely missing.


But Podz hasn't looked anything remotely like that solid Middle-6 guy with frustrating untapped offensive inconsistencies. Podz hasn't even looked like an NHL player in camp. It's not just about him scoring a bunch. It's about him being a useful player doing other things...at which point, the points would come. But he's not doing those things.

I disagree a bit here. I'm not saying they are the same player and certainly the developmental curve is different but there are similarities. Both came into the league with great offensive and forechecking potential with their skill, speed and work ethic. They have a bit of a different developmental path. Kempe spent a full year in the AHL in his draft + 2 season while Pods was still in the KHL. Pods essentially played a full season in the NHL in his draft +3 season while Kempe played 25 games. I think at that point Pods was ahead of Kempe in development. I thought Pods was surprisingly good defensively in his rookie season and looked to be developing fine while Kempe's defense (not surprisingly for a rookie) was considered suspect. The next season Kempe started out strong and seemingly rounded out his defensive game while Pods struggled Yet Kempe started over 70% of his shifts in the offensive zone so he wasn't exactly the reliable two-way middle 6 grinder type you described. But certainly in the ensuing years under Stevens and Willie he was and effective middle 6 player whose offensive production was probably stagnated by coaching.

My point is that we've seen Pods at his best in his rookie year. He came basically as projected. He's not a defensive liability. He can transport the puck. He can have a high work rate and play an effective north south game. What actually has a good shot but somehow he lacks finish. If we can have that with a commensurate cap hit he's a good player to have on the team. But ya I don't know what happened to him. He looks lost despite having Mik and Kuzmenko guiding him. I suspect it might be due to his newborn and perhaps not having the highest hockey IQ to quickly adapt to Tocchet's system.
 
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The Stig

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Unfortunately not every pick works out. Hell there were a few guys around the league that were former 1st rounders that got sent down yesterday that look to be heading to bust status.
 

centipede2233

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Zadina, Mantha, Podkolzin and Virtsnen have all underwhelmed and all 1st rd picks by benning and Holland. Need I say more
 

Vector

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Zadina, Mantha, Podkolzin and Virtsnen have all underwhelmed and all 1st rd picks by benning and Holland. Need I say more

Holland's first round draft history since from 2013 to 2018, 7 first rounders, is pretty atrocious.

Mantha (20)
Larkin (15)
Svechnikov (19)
Cholowski (20)
Rasmussen (9)
Zadina (6)
Veleno (30)

Larkin is the prize, Rasmussen seems to have finally turned a corner, and at least Mantha is in the NHL.
 

centipede2233

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Holland's first round draft history since from 2013 to 2018, 7 first rounders, is pretty atrocious.

Mantha (20)
Larkin (15)
Svechnikov (19)
Cholowski (20)
Rasmussen (9)
Zadina (6)
Veleno (30)

Larkin is the prize, Rasmussen seems to have finally turned a corner, and at least Mantha is in the NHL.
And he proceeds to draft broberg 8th overall 2019, Holloway 14th overall 2020, Bourgault 22nd overall 2021… not exactly killing it at the draft
 

DFAC

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And he proceeds to draft broberg 8th overall 2019, Holloway 14th overall 2020, Bourgault 22nd overall 2021… not exactly killing it at the draft

Not a fan of their Danielson pick this year too - I was honestly glad they picked him because I was very worried we would've if he was there over Willander.
 

Russian_fanatic

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Outside the 2021 KHL playoffs, and the final 15 games of the 2022 Season where he had 10 points in 15 games, this dude has not produced anywhere.

5 goals, 14 points in 31 VHL regular season games
7 goals, 19 points in 65 KHL regular season games
3 goals, 9 points in 21 WJC games
7 goals, 18 points in 28 AHL games
18 goals, 33 points in 118 NHL games

We expect this guy to become a top 6 contributor in the NHL? Nah, he’s a bust.
 

strattonius

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Outside the 2021 KHL playoffs, and the final 15 games of the 2022 Season where he had 10 points in 15 games, this dude has not produced anywhere.

5 goals, 14 points in 31 VHL regular season games
7 goals, 19 points in 65 KHL regular season games
3 goals, 9 points in 21 WJC games
7 goals, 18 points in 28 AHL games
18 goals, 33 points in 118 NHL games

We expect this guy to become a top 6 contributor in the NHL? Nah, he’s a bust.

No one has really expected a top 6 fwd for a very long time. We've been hoping he would become a middle 6 pit bull that can shutdown and forecheck but that is also not looking good.

Being a top 6 fwd is just such an elite class of player. Basically if you aren't exceeding expectations in your d+1 there's little chance. Relating that to Podkolzin, he was essentially cast as a utility player with top 6 upside the moment he was drafted. It's always been a long shot on finding a productive fwd in him.
 

VanJack

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Unfortunately not every pick works out. Hell there were a few guys around the league that were former 1st rounders that got sent down yesterday that look to be heading to bust status.
Too true.....they don't call it 'the draft lottery' for nothing. It can be a crap-shoot, even in the first round.

So that's the reason why wise NHL teams stockpile draft picks....knowing that the more picks they have, the better the odds of uncovering an NHL player.

Unfortunately the Canucks have gone in the opposite direction in recent years. They've traded a dizzying array of first-second-and third round picks for either immediate help; or to get out from under bad contracts.

So if and when one of their high picks basically flops.....it's even more disastrous.
 
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DFAC

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No one has really expected a top 6 fwd for a very long time. We've been hoping he would become a middle 6 pit bull that can shutdown and forecheck but that is also not looking good.

Being a top 6 fwd is just such an elite class of player. Basically if you aren't exceeding expectations in your d+1 there's little chance. Relating that to Podkolzin, he was essentially cast as a utility player with top 6 upside the moment he was drafted. It's always been a long shot on finding a productive fwd in him.

This is all true but it just hurts that much more that Boldy went right after Podkolzin and is on his way to becoming a bonafide top line winger
 
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Russian_fanatic

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No one has really expected a top 6 fwd for a very long time. We've been hoping he would become a middle 6 pit bull that can shutdown and forecheck but that is also not looking good.

Being a top 6 fwd is just such an elite class of player. Basically if you aren't exceeding expectations in your d+1 there's little chance. Relating that to Podkolzin, he was essentially cast as a utility player with top 6 upside the moment he was drafted. It's always been a long shot on finding a productive fwd in him.

Even if you projected him to be a utility player his production has been god awful on any level. He has had no clue what to do offensively at any level or stage.

Jannik Hansen was a fantastic utility player, who could play in the top 6 from time to time. Biggest difference is, Hansen showed a little offensive potential early on, and he produced.

Podkolzin has not produced, and he just looks lost. This isn't even him being rushed and trying to figure out the NHL. He has been like this at every single level he has competed on.
 

oceanchild

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I’m still high in the guy, he’s a kid, he has lost his confidence, is value is low enough it wouldn’t be worth trading him outside of a prospect of the same ilk, and that’s only if your scouting staff has them more likely to succeed. From all accounts he’s a great kid, with a good attitude and a great work ethic. Let’s give him some time and hope for the best.

I have said this a few times over the preseason, power forwards take longer to develop. The kid moved from Russia, we cycled through couches and he has not enjoyed any stability. Let’s see what this coaching and development staff can do. Hopefully the Sedins can work some manic with this kid. I also want to point out how kind the words have been from coach T, it’s clear they love this kid.
 

Johnny Canucker

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Unfortunately not every pick works out. Hell there were a few guys around the league that were former 1st rounders that got sent down yesterday that look to be heading to bust status.

How many teams bust out on a

5th overall
6th overall
10th overall

In a 7 year span?

I’m still high in the guy, he’s a kid, he has lost his confidence, is value is low enough it wouldn’t be worth trading him outside of a prospect of the same ilk, and that’s only if your scouting staff has them more likely to succeed. From all accounts he’s a great kid, with a good attitude and a great work ethic. Let’s give him some time and hope for the best.

I have said this a few times over the preseason, power forwards take longer to develop. The kid moved from Russia, we cycled through couches and he has not enjoyed any stability. Let’s see what this coaching and development staff can do. Hopefully the Sedins can work some manic with this kid. I also want to point out how kind the words have been from coach T, it’s clear they love this kid.


All I hear is excuses. He’s in his draft +4 year. If he has not figured it out as a 10th overall pick by now, he’s not going to. Sure he could take longer to develop but he’s going backwards. No development. He will be in the KHL next year never to be seen again. Another miss that drags the team back 5 years.
 

I am toxic

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Even if you projected him to be a utility player his production has been god awful on any level. He has had no clue what to do offensively at any level or stage.

Jannik Hansen was a fantastic utility player, who could play in the top 6 from time to time. Biggest difference is, Hansen showed a little offensive potential early on, and he produced.

Podkolzin has not produced, and he just looks lost. This isn't even him being rushed and trying to figure out the NHL. He has been like this at every single level he has competed on.

The thing about Hansen is he went above and beyond, to improve himself.

Every single pre-game warmup, when all the others had left the ice and the zamboni's were about to do their clean, he would have one other stay out with him and just continually feed him one timers. It took me a while to appreciate the significance of that.

And you can tell listening to him on the radio he can analyse things and grasps the bigger picture as well. I would have liked to have shot the breeze with him for an extended period of time, but never got the chance.
 

oceanchild

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How many teams bust out on a

5th overall
6th overall
10th overall

In a 7 year span?




All I hear is excuses. He’s in his draft +4 year. If he has not figured it out as a 10th overall pick by now, he’s not going to. Sure he could take longer to develop but he’s going backwards. No development. He will be in the KHL next year never to be seen again. Another miss that drags the team back 5 years.
I’m not making excuses, I want to see him light it up. I can’t change anything here and I would prefer to remain optimistic on this player. It would make a profound difference to this team if this guy could get on track. What drives my optimism is just how highly everyone speaks of this guy. If you thought about what it would take to succeed, he is doing all those things.

I respect that.
 

MS

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It just feels like he's suffering from "analysis paralysis". Like he's trying to think through different options, instead of just charging in and doing something instinctively. Which in turn, results in those options passing him by and he ends up basically just doing...nothing. He just doesn't seem to be a player who is capable of processing quickly enough to be "clever" with things and reading multiple steps ahead.

I'd rather see him confidently make some bad reads/decisions, than what he seems to be doing now, which is almost like non-decisions. Just letting the play just sort of go on around him as an impartial observer. At least if he were charging around making confident, instinctive, simple reads...he'd be be right at least sometimes. There'd be something useful to playing as just, "see puck, get puck" and applying pressure, making his size felt physically, etc. As it stands...he's just sort of wafting around looking lost and indecisive.


It's that...so afraid to make the wrong decision that he ultimately ends up doing absolutely nothing. idk how you fix that, or if you can at this point. He obviously seems to be willing to work hard. It's just not funneled anywhere constructive. He doesn't seem to be getting the message from coaching to just "play simple, play hard, play aggressive". They're effectively giving him rare license to make some mistakes...and he doesn't seem to want to take it.

This is basically 100% correct and I’ve been saying the same thing for awhile now.

He’s been overcoached starting with Green and he just looks constantly terrified of making a mistake. The x-factor in his game has disappeared completely and he doesn’t look like he’s having fun, doesn’t have any confidence, and is just a mental mess.

He needs to go out, move his feet, have fun, make some mistakes. And it seems like they’re telling him to do that but he’s still not getting it.

There’s a good player in there but who knows if we’re ever going to see it come out.
 

petterdaddy

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This is basically 100% correct and I’ve been saying the same thing for awhile now.

He’s been overcoached starting with Green and he just looks constantly terrified of making a mistake. The x-factor in his game has disappeared completely and he doesn’t look like he’s having fun, doesn’t have any confidence, and is just a mental mess.

He needs to go out, move his feet, have fun, make some mistakes. And it seems like they’re telling him to do that but he’s still not getting it.

There’s a good player in there but who knows if we’re ever going to see it come out.
I still have 0 idea what some people are talking about when they say Green was a decent coach. Like I literally think I’m living in an alternate reality because we are clearly not watching the same coach. Bro single handedly has tanked enough NHL careers but yet some pundits think he’s some 4D chess mind that got screwed over by Benning.
 

MS

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I still have 0 idea what some people are talking about when they say Green was a decent coach. Like I literally think I’m living in an alternate reality because we are clearly not watching the same coach. Bro single handedly has tanked enough NHL careers but yet some pundits think he’s some 4D chess mind that got screwed over by Benning.

He’s the worst coach I’ve ever seen here. Absolute shit in every way. I’d even take Willie over him.
 

petterdaddy

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He’s the worst coach I’ve ever seen here. Absolute shit in every way. I’d even take Willie over him.
Willie at least was kind of likeable. Green just came off like an ultra douche every time he opened his mouth. Canucks fans really should be entitled to legal compensation due to extreme emotional abuse given the last decade.
 

Bojack Horvatman

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Not a fan of their Danielson pick this year too - I was honestly glad they picked him because I was very worried we would've if he was there over Willander.

I think Detroit
This is basically 100% correct and I’ve been saying the same thing for awhile now.

He’s been overcoached starting with Green and he just looks constantly terrified of making a mistake. The x-factor in his game has disappeared completely and he doesn’t look like he’s having fun, doesn’t have any confidence, and is just a mental mess.

He needs to go out, move his feet, have fun, make some mistakes. And it seems like they’re telling him to do that but he’s still not getting it.

There’s a good player in there but who knows if we’re ever going to see it come out.

Ditto for Hoglander. In his rookie year he was one of the only players that was noticeable in a good way almost every game, but has gotten worse every year.
 
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