Post-Game Talk: Plus-Minus Thread | Opener edition | Penguins 3, Devils 0

[Speaking Moistly]

But, HERE is the problem. If you trade Nisky THEN, then who is your 6th defenseman? The only reason you'd trade him is IF you think Despres or Dumoulin or even Maatta can do the job just as well or better, and the only way one of those three guys will get there is if they're playing NOW. But, if you keep Nisky, then they can't play NOW. This is the same circle we go in seemingly every year, and it's precisely the reason young guys aren't 'ready' to contribute more greatly in the playoffs. IMO, you keep Nisky now, then he's your #5 for the rest of the year, because there's a far greater risk to moving him later.

This is why I want Niskanen traded now. They might get more for him later but the team needs to get rid of him now for his replacement to get experience.

I guess Niskanen being traded right before Vokoun returns at 3 months and then the replacement having enough time is the optimistic middle ground. That's highly optimistic, though. Or you could press box Niskanen and watch his value drop but hope for someone to be desperate.

 

[KIRK]

We'll see. I think his body will hold Maatta back, he just needs time to physically mature. Despres is just older and needs to be in the NHL to grow; as does Maatta but Maatta also needs time. Maatta may very well be the smarter/better/more improvable player but Despres is further developed. I don't really feel like my question was answered though, for shame.

Right now they're missing Letang and Despres offers some key points there. Why would you not play someone who can partially replace Letang? Depending on how long Letang is out it's valuable to time to be making Despres ready to alleviate that. Yes, I'm assuming the worst with Letang because pessimism keeps the let downs away.




Bad timing, stone hands and Bylsma standing by his men. Crosby getting injured trying to do it all. Don't worry, whatever Malkin's line is will carry us unless they go streaky or get injured, in which case whatever the third line is will. If all else fails we have our dynamite fourth line.

Well, if they wanted to play the defenseman who would giveth and taketh away (often in the same shift) like Letang, then Despres was the obvious candidate. But, for those donuts . . .

 

[Tender Rip]

But, you can't trade Nisky at the deadline.

Of course you can. If we cannot make a bottom pairing with Despres, Bortuzzo and Engelland, we should be ashamed. More so with a top4 of minute muncher such as Letang, Martin, Scuderi and Brooksy.

Ultimately, Niskanen should be traded as quickly as there is a chance to get a decent return on him. Most likely the only reason he hasn't been traded already is because of the number of experienced D-men available at bargain bin prices. First team suffering a major injury crisis, Shero should be on the phone. Nothing against Nisky really, it just doesn't make sense not prioritizing Despres instead both for future, playoff and cap-reasons.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Oh I don't think you are wrong saying that. I'm just talking about the future for Maatta. It's rich. Despres is a better pro hockey player right now.

Oh no doubt. I've been saying for awhile Maatta has really impressed me since last season.

Right now though, he looks like a 19 year old.

 

[IcedCapp]

I watched Bylsma get pretty animated with Beau after he passed the puck back to Fleury. The kid does so many things right but it seems he gets **** on whenever he does one minor thing incorrect.

you're surprised?

This isn't directed at you, Cole, but I don't know why some people refuse to see what's right in front of them. Despres went from Top-4 to bottom-2 to AHL. Bennett went from top-6 to Bottom-6. He'll get sat soon enough. There is no performance good enough from young players. None.

 

[mpp9]

Kunitz had a very good game. 7 hits (none against), 10 shots while on vs 7 against.

Jeffrey really struggled. he was the only skater on either team who didn't help produce a shot on net.

Sid carried his line tonight. Kunitz and Dupuis have been garbage since the Ottawa series.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

This is why I want Niskanen traded now. They might get more for him later but the team needs to get rid of him now for his replacement to get experience.

I guess Niskanen being traded right before Vokoun returns at 3 months and then the replacement having enough time is the optimistic middle ground. That's highly optimistic, though. Or you could press box Niskanen and watch his value drop but hope for someone to be desperate.

If the Pens were in agreement, he would have been given away already like Brian Strait was. The Pens seemingly are willing to wait to get the value. I do not see the major difference in the development of his replacement. WBS plays the same system as the Pens so he can develope there, then have time to get acclimated to the Pens when called up. I doubt these 3 extra months with the big club would be the difference between the guy being an all star and being a buffoon.

 

[KIRK]

You're right on with this line of thinking, but one thing it assumes is that the blueline actually stays fairly healthy for the next four months.

It's probably going to be an injury that gives Despres his next opportunity and God willing he can meet whatever strict standard the coaches and front office have apparently set for him.

I guess that's why I think you take the chance and move Nisky now. Leaving Maatta aside, you've got Despres, Dumoulin, even Engo in a pinch. You can handle Nisky going and even an injury. And, again, I'm thinking more about April than about January when I say that.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Of course you can. If we cannot make a bottom pairing with Despres, Bortuzzo and Engelland, we should be ashamed. More so with a top4 of minute muncher such as Letang, Martin, Scuderi and Brooksy.

Ultimately, Niskanen should be traded as quickly as there is a chance to get a decent return on him. Most likely the only reason he hasn't been traded already is because of the number of experienced D-men available at bargain bin prices. First team suffering a major injury crisis, Shero should be on the phone. Nothing against Nisky really, it just doesn't make sense not prioritizing Despres instead both for future, playoff and cap-reasons.

Yes, to clarify, if they get a great offer now, sure no reason to wait for the deadline. But I am doubting that happens. But if so, nice knowing you Niskanen and thanks for the memories.

 

[KIRK]

Of course you can. If we cannot make a bottom pairing with Despres, Bortuzzo and Engelland, we should be ashamed. More so with a top4 of minute muncher such as Letang, Martin, Scuderi and Brooksy.

Ultimately, Niskanen should be traded as quickly as there is a chance to get a decent return on him. Most likely the only reason he hasn't been traded already is because of the number of experienced D-men available at bargain bin prices. First team suffering a major injury crisis, Shero should be on the phone. Nothing against Nisky really, it just doesn't make sense not prioritizing Despres instead both for future, playoff and cap-reasons.

Really TR, you of all people shouldn't be THAT naive about how this franchise works. We've learned enough from Engo in the playoffs. And, you know what the excuse will be with Despres or Dumoulin . . . can't trust them because they don't have the experience. This is the game that got played with Bennett last year and with Despres the year before. I'm not saying it's right, but it is what it is.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Our 9th agreement since camp began . . .

If you're displeased with Bylsma playing Bennett 3:29 in the third, then that would be #10.

Chalk up #10.

I watched Bylsma get pretty animated with Beau after he passed the puck back to Fleury. The kid does so many things right but it seems he gets **** on whenever he does one minor thing incorrect.

That's dumb. Of all players on the team...

 

[KIRK]

Yes, to clarify, if they get a great offer now, sure no reason to wait for the deadline. But I am doubting that happens. But if so, nice knowing you Niskanen and thanks for the memories.

And you think this organization will trust Despres or Dumoulin as a third pairing guy if Nisky goes at the deadline. Please, Engo will play.

 

[mpp9]

Not trying to turn this into a trade rumor thread. But if Anaheim is seriously willing to deal a quality forward for a young D, then Shero better be jumping all over that. We could really use another solid hockey trade to bolster our depth at forward. Despres for a cheap young winger. Keep Nisky and then move on to Maatta or Dumoulin next season.

 

[Ugene Magic]

But, you can't trade Nisky at the deadline. Who's on your bottom pairing then. Maatta? He'll be in juniors. Dumoulin? No experience. Despres? Heck, if THAT is the plan, then he needs to be playing NOW. Either you trade Nisky now and get the young guys the experience they'll need for the playoffs, or you go with Nisky for the rest of the year.

Right now, Niskanen is their security blanket. Letang is out and the team is one injury away from having nothing offensively if they trade Niskanen now or even later if Martin goes down.

I'm under the assumption he is let to ride out his contract. They're making it work and injuries are a staple with this team.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I watched Bylsma get pretty animated with Beau after he passed the puck back to Fleury. The kid does so many things right but it seems he gets **** on whenever he does one minor thing incorrect.

Is that why he was sat? Had to be.

God almighty....

That was a heads up play given where the pressure was coming from and the F1 was ready to pounce if he used Orpik as his outlet.

Gotta punish those damn rooks so they be learning.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Well, if they wanted to play the defenseman who would giveth and taketh away (often in the same shift) like Letang, then Despres was the obvious candidate. But, for those donuts . . .

Touche. He'd be like a sledgehammer to anyone he could catch... Adams and Glass. Put a Twinkie on Glass.

If the Pens were in agreement, he would have been given away already like Brian Strait was. The Pens seemingly are willing to wait to get the value. I do not see the major difference in the development of his replacement. WBS plays the same system as the Pens so he can develope there, then have time to get acclimated to the Pens when called up. I doubt these 3 extra months with the big club would be the difference between the guy being an all star and being a buffoon.

3 months is the optimistic number, it could be more; will be. If the replacement is Despres, I also think he needs to be in the NHL to really develop anymore. I'm leery of waiting for his value to increase, but that's just some mild paranoia. And Bylsma.

It could mean the difference between one crucial decision being right or wrong.

 

[IcedCapp]

Not trying to turn this into a trade rumor thread. But if Anaheim is seriously willing to deal a quality forward for a young D, then Shero better be jumping all over that. We could really use another solid hockey trade to bolster our depth at forward. Despres for a cheap young winger. Keep Nisky and then move on to Maatta or Dumoulin next season.

no money

 

[Tender Rip]

Really TR, you of all people shouldn't be THAT naive about how this franchise works.

Well.... there is a big difference between you saying that "you can't trade Niskanen at the deadline" and rely on a third pairing of Despres and Bortuzzo (which in my opinion would be our best option right now), and saying "this team won't trade Niskanen at the deadline" .

I am just saying that Niskanen should have been traded last deadline, or at the draft, or during the off-season, or today, or tomorrow.... or at the deadline. I just think Shero's excuse for not doing so yet is likely a good one - lack of interest/unacceptable return. At least I hope so.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

And you think this organization will trust Despres or Dumoulin as a third pairing guy if Nisky goes at the deadline. Please, Engo will play.

Then there will be the hole that I am talking about. But we knew the combination of the cap dropping so much and the long term deals that we signed that something would have to give. That 5/6 defensemen being the only meh part was a pretty small one year price to pay. If they trade Niskanen now what makes you think that they would develop Despres anyways? If you are right it only means Engo would be in right now.

 

[KIRK]

Right now, Niskanen is their security blanket. Letang is out and the team is one injury away from having nothing offensively if they trade Niskanen now or even later if Martin goes down.

I'm under the assumption he is let to ride out his contract. They're making it work and injuries are a staple with this team.

I'm fairly certain that's what WILL happen. If you don't move Nisky now, then you don't want Engo and Despres and Dumoulin will be too untested by the organization's logic.

That said, they SHOULD do otherwise. Despres or Dumoulin can replace Nisky and, in 3-4 months with experience, will bring as much or more to the table. Someone gets hurt, the other guy or Engo can fill in.

If Nisky goes at the deadline, then Engo is your playoff starter. That's why I want him gone now. Take away Bylsma's 'not enough experience' excuse.

Then there will be the hole that I am talking about. But we knew the combination of the cap dropping so much and the long term deals that we signed that something would have to give. That 5/6 defensemen being the only meh part was a pretty small one year price to pay. If they trade Niskanen now what makes you think that they would develop Despres anyways? If you are right it only means Engo would be in right now.

To be clear, I wouldn't give Niskanen away. But, for example, under mpp9's scenario, if Anaheim comes calling, then Letang's status isn't keeping me from making a deal.

Well.... there is a big difference between you saying that "you can't trade Niskanen at the deadline" and rely on a third pairing of Despres and Bortuzzo (which in my opinion would be our best option right now), and saying "this team won't trade Niskanen at the deadline" .

I am just saying that Niskanen should have been traded last deadline, or at the draft, or during the off-season, or today, or tomorrow.... or at the deadline. I just think Shero's excuse for not doing so yet is likely a good one - lack of interest/unacceptable return. At least I hope so.

If lack of interest or return is the reason not to move him, then I concur about holding him for now. But, I doubt that's always been the case. We'll have a better idea when Letang returns.

 

[mpp9]

no money

Moving Despres for a guy with a similar contract is doable. Vokoun's LTIR gives us some time to sort it out. If they seriously would pass up nabbing a guy like Palmieri to keep Glass on the roster, I'd lose it.

 

[Penguinzilla*]

- The fact that Sid has to play with crappy wingers his whole career
+ the fact that Sid can still do what he does with crappy wingers

 

[Ugene Magic]

I'm fairly certain that's what WILL happen. If you don't move Nisky now, then you don't want Engo and Despres and Dumoulin will be too untested by the organization's logic.

That said, they SHOULD do otherwise. Despres or Dumoulin can replace Nisky and, in 3-4 months with experience, will bring as much or more to the table. Someone gets hurt, the other guy or Engo can fill in.

If Nisky goes at the deadline, then Engo is your playoff starter. That's why I want him gone now. Take away Bylsma's 'not enough experience' excuse.

My premise is that 2 top 4 D-man are out and for substantial time. While Despres and Dumoulin can replace Niskanen in the bottom two role, they can't replace a Letang or Martin. Like I said, what if both are out? You now have no offensive D-man you can 100% trust in the top 4/top PP unit. None....

 

[FlyingPenguin]

Which begs the question of why Despres got sent down when we're missing Letang?

The bottom pairing and 7th D is why: you have five players (Despres, Bortuzzo, Niskanen, Engelland, Maata) and get to keep three.

Letang is injured to start the season, and it looks like a short term injury, so that helps with one spot, now you only have to cut one (for now). If you waive Niskanen/Bortuzzo/Engelland they get claimed. If you send Maata down, he's gone for the year. Despres though? You can send Despres down and call him up again whenever.

Despres is in WBS right now because it buys time to figure out what to do with the D.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

To be clear, I wouldn't give Niskanen away. But, for example, under mpp9's scenario, if Anaheim comes calling, then Letang's status isn't keeping me from making a deal.

Absolutely.

However, reading between the lines, no appropriate offer has come around.

But at the trade deadline, even his cap hit is prorated. Young, good quality, and not a rental, but one who you can sign and keep on the team. Could garner an extremely nice return. As has been pointed it of Douglas Murray got two seconds, Niskanen's return would be very nice indeed.