Post-Game Talk: Plus-Minus Thread | Opener edition | Penguins 3, Devils 0

[KIRK]

Agree about not liking how we played, Tender. I think your right up is very fair. We didn't cycle at all. It was bad. No support and ZERO puck possession. It was not easy to watch.

But like they always do, skill took over in thi sone.

I thought for the few shifts they played JJ-Geno-Neal has a lot of close puck support and decent possession in the offensive zone. But, otherwise, yes, same old thing . . . a lot of 1 on 3 work.

 

[Shockmaster]

Which begs the question of why Despres got sent down when we're missing Letang?

They weren't pleased that Despres was out of shape and had a bad training camp. That said, if Niskanen eventually gets traded I hope we see him play over Engelland.

 

[KIRK]

Which begs the question of why Despres got sent down when we're missing Letang?

I just offered this theory (the 'he' referenced is Maatta)?

Maybe I'm 100% off, but I think he internalizes and grows from every single experience. I'll be interested to see if he makes the same mistake a second time in game two. Something tells me he won't. For as much as I'd like to see Despres playing, I think that this is why the coaching staff ***** on him as much as the 'in or out of shape thing'. He makes the same mistakes.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Jiggy... I know we have mutual respect when it comes to hockey talk. Maatta deserves every single ounce of credit. His skating and his passing is tremendous. He's a gem. He will be a top pairing. He needs strength and professional experience now.

I remember when he was drafted. Philly fans on their board here at HF wanted to kick a baby when Philly passed on him to draft yet another forward. In a way Homer is the other side of the coin of Shero, seemingly fixated on forwards where Shero fixates on defense.

It feels especially good to have Maatta come along given the extra little dig of how it must kill Philly fans to see it happen given their feelings at the time.

Just imagine if we had used that first pick on Jacob Trouba. Yeah, Pouliot can still develope into something special, but just for a second imagine Jacob Trouba, Letang, Despres and Maatta as our future on defense.

 

[Coastal Kev]

- all you people who doubted this team.

I'll go on record stating I doubt the makeup of this team. They will be manhandled against certain matchups, Boston and Toronto to name two. I think the Pens will start out of the gate pretty solid, but they are going to hit a major wall sometime around holiday season. You can't get beat up physically night after night. I also think some of their vets will take a step back by mid season, Dupes and Kunitz looking at you.

 

[KIRK]

They weren't pleased that Despres was out of shape and had a bad training camp. That said, if Niskanen eventually gets traded I hope we see him play over Engelland.

I really do think that you trade Niskanen when Letang returns. Yes, you lose his experience. But, with Despres, Dumoulin, or maybe even Maatta, the 1.4M in cap space is a lot more valuable to this team's cup aspirations than any added regular season advantage Nisky might bring.

 

[KIRK]

I'll go on record stating I doubt the makeup of this team. They will be manhandled against certain matchups, Boston and Toronto to name two. I think the Pens will start out of the gate pretty solid, but they are going to hit a major wall sometime around holiday season. You can't get beat up physically night after night. I also think some of their vets will take a step back by mid season, Dupes and Kunitz looking at you.

I shudder to think what a step back will look like based on tonight.

 

[Ugene Magic]

No, I don't think it's the best thing for the squad. And I don't think it's a 60-minute thing, either. But from what I could gather tonight, it sounds like it's something to expect with a two-goal lead in the middle of the game like we saw tonight.

Word trickling out from the arena tonight was that they really didn't showcase much of Martin's schematic tweaks (Jacques, that is) during the preseason. Obviously it's not a complete overhaul -- the stretch-pass-and-tip-in-the-neutral-zone is still the breakout of choice. And I don't think they're going to go full-blown trap and completely dial back on the forecheck. But I do think it's going to be a different feel this season.

You can't get back if your forwards are behind the other teams goal-line all tired out late in the game.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I remember when he was drafted. Philly fans on their board here at HF wanted to kick a baby when Philly passed on him to draft yet another forward. In a way Homer is the other side of the coin of Shero, seemingly fixated on forwards where Shero fixates on defense.

It feels especially good to have Maatta come along given the extra little dig of how it must kill Philly fans to see it happen given their feelings at the time.

Just imagine if we had used that first pick on Jacob Trouba. Yeah, Pouliot can still develope into something special, but just for a second imagine Jacob Trouba, Letang, Despres and Maatta as our future on defense.

The future of our defense looks incredibly bright regardless of whether Trouba ends up being better than Pouliot.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The future of our defense looks incredibly bright regardless.

Oh no doubt.

 

[Shockmaster]

I really do think that you trade Niskanen when Letang returns. Yes, you lose his experience. But, with Despres, Dumoulin, or maybe even Maatta, the 1.4M in cap space is a lot more valuable to this team's cup aspirations than any added regular season advantage Nisky might bring.

I have a feeling Shero may try to hold onto Niskanen longer in hopes of getting something better then a draft pick in return. If anything, I think this team will need to beef up the bottom 6 forward group before going into the playoffs.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I have a feeling Shero may try to hold onto Niskanen longer in hopes of getting something better then a draft pick in return. If anything, I think this team will need to beef up the bottom 6 forward group before going into the playoffs.

I get that feeling as well.

Niskanen could bring an extremely nice return at the deadline, which is right around when Vokoun would be due back.

 

[KIRK]

I have a feeling Shero may try to hold onto Niskanen longer in hopes of getting something better then a draft pick in return. If anything, I think this team will need to beef up the bottom 6 forward group before going into the playoffs.

I don't disagree. Question is will a team giving you that bottom six guy want Nisky or a pick. Either way, you'll need the cap space when the time comes, and moving Nisky is the only way to create it.

 

[Sideline]

I get that feeling as well.

Niskanen could bring an extremely nice return at the deadline, which is right around when Vokoun would be due back.

Agreed. Just look at what Murray cost the Penguins. At the deadline defense are at their peak value.

 

[KIRK]

The future of our defense looks incredibly bright regardless of whether Trouba ends up being better than Pouliot.

Our 9th agreement since camp began . . .

If you're displeased with Bylsma playing Bennett 3:29 in the third, then that would be #10.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I just offered this theory (the 'he' referenced is Maatta)?

Maybe I'm 100% off, but I think he internalizes and grows from every single experience. I'll be interested to see if he makes the same mistake a second time in game two. Something tells me he won't. For as much as I'd like to see Despres playing, I think that this is why the coaching staff ***** on him as much as the 'in or out of shape thing'. He makes the same mistakes.

We'll see. I think his body will hold Maatta back, he just needs time to physically mature. Despres is just older and needs to be in the NHL to grow; as does Maatta but Maatta also needs time. Maatta may very well be the smarter/better/more improvable player but Despres is further developed. I don't really feel like my question was answered though, for shame.

Right now they're missing Letang and Despres offers some key points there. Why would you not play someone who can partially replace Letang? Depending on how long Letang is out it's valuable to time to be making Despres ready to alleviate that. Yes, I'm assuming the worst with Letang because pessimism keeps the let downs away.

I shudder to think what a step back will look like based on tonight.

Bad timing, stone hands and Bylsma standing by his men. Crosby getting injured trying to do it all. Don't worry, whatever Malkin's line is will carry us unless they go streaky or get injured, in which case whatever the third line is will. If all else fails we have our dynamite fourth line.

 

[ColePens]

I watched Bylsma get pretty animated with Beau after he passed the puck back to Fleury. The kid does so many things right but it seems he gets **** on whenever he does one minor thing incorrect.

 

[Nietzsche Zone Play]

Kunitz had a very good game. 7 hits (none against), 10 shots while on vs 7 against.

Jeffrey really struggled. he was the only skater on either team who didn't help produce a shot on net.

 

[shureshot66]

I get that feeling as well.

Niskanen could bring an extremely nice return at the deadline, which is right around when Vokoun would be due back.

Agreed. And it definitely helps up his value to start him off with Scuderi to steady his game.

...Speaking of steady blueliners, kudos to Paul Martin tonight. Team-high 24:26 on the ice. Calm. Good decision-making. Keeps Orpik from turning into a trainwreck. Glad to see him pick up where he left off, for the most part.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I don't disagree. Question is will a team giving you that bottom six guy want Nisky or a pick. Either way, you'll need the cap space when the time comes, and moving Nisky is the only way to create it.

I would rather the pick than a bottom six guy as Niskanen's return.

First because it is the trade deadline when even bottom six guys cost you an arm and a leg, the real value is the pick. We could even get a first perhaps for Niskanen then.

Second cap space. The reason we would trade Niskanen is to make cap room for Vokoun's return. Adding even a bottom six guy would sort of defeat the purpose.

 

[KIRK]

Agreed. Just look at what Murray cost the Penguins. At the deadline defense are at their peak value.

But, HERE is the problem. If you trade Nisky THEN, then who is your 6th defenseman? The only reason you'd trade him is IF you think Despres or Dumoulin or even Maatta can do the job just as well or better, and the only way one of those three guys will get there is if they're playing NOW. But, if you keep Nisky, then they can't play NOW. This is the same circle we go in seemingly every year, and it's precisely the reason young guys aren't 'ready' to contribute more greatly in the playoffs. IMO, you keep Nisky now, then he's your #5 for the rest of the year, because there's a far greater risk to moving him later.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Good effort all around. Would've liked to see Malkin more visible but it happens, and that line was in flux some of the night. Good to see Fleury get a nice win with the crowd behind him. Hopefully he doesn't need that little league-esque boost anymore though.

The fourth line is bad. Vitale will help them since he can actually skate, but if we got cycled one 8 times in this game Adams and Glass were out there for 6 of them. I don't really understand why Jeffrey is on the team. It's a problem, at least as much as your fourth line can be a problem.

 

[KIRK]

I would rather the pick than a bottom six guy as Niskanen's return.

First because it is the trade deadline when even bottom six guys cost you an arm and a leg, the real value is the pick. We could even get a first perhaps for Niskanen then.

Second cap space. The reason we would trade Niskanen is to make cap room for Vokoun's return. Adding even a bottom six guy would sort of defeat the purpose.

But, you can't trade Nisky at the deadline. Who's on your bottom pairing then. Maatta? He'll be in juniors. Dumoulin? No experience. Despres? Heck, if THAT is the plan, then he needs to be playing NOW. Either you trade Nisky now and get the young guys the experience they'll need for the playoffs, or you go with Nisky for the rest of the year.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

But, you can't trade Nisky at the deadline. Who's on your bottom pairing then. Maatta? He'll be in juniors. Dumoulin? No experience. Despres? Heck, if THAT is the plan, then he needs to be playing NOW. Either you trade Nisky now and get the young guys the experience they'll need for the playoffs, or you go with Nisky for the rest of the year.

I get what you are saying, and in a vacuum and a perfect would I agree with you. But you are forgetting something.

The thing is that when Vokoun comes back someone has to go. Logically that someone remains Niskanen.

Because of the cap dropping so significantly, and the major signings that we made, we knew that there would be a hole or two.

That hole will likely be Despres coming back to fill in for Niskanen when he goes. And the Pens will just have to make do. Would I rather Niskanen filling that role than Despres? You bet your ass I do. But we are going to need the cap space.

 

[shureshot66]

But, HERE is the problem. If you trade Nisky THEN, then who is your 6th defenseman? The only reason you'd trade him is IF you think Despres or Dumoulin or even Maatta can do the job just as well or better, and the only way one of those three guys will get there is if they're playing NOW. But, if you keep Nisky, then they can't play NOW. This is the same circle we go in seemingly every year, and it's precisely the reason young guys aren't 'ready' to contribute more greatly in the playoffs. IMO, you keep Nisky now, then he's your #5 for the rest of the year, because there's a far greater risk to moving him later.

You're right on with this line of thinking, but one thing it assumes is that the blueline actually stays fairly healthy for the next four months.

It's probably going to be an injury that gives Despres his next opportunity and God willing he can meet whatever strict standard the coaches and front office have apparently set for him.