Post-Game Talk: Plus-Minus Thread | Opener edition | Penguins 3, Devils 0

[KIRK]

Jiggy... I know we have mutual respect when it comes to hockey talk. Maatta deserves every single ounce of credit. His skating and his passing is tremendous. He's a gem. He will be a top pairing. He needs strength and professional experience now.

And THAT is the real problem.

There's only one place he'll get the professional experience, and it's not in juniors, no matter how many minutes he place.

Strength is the tricky part.

Question: If you moved Niskanen and kept Maatta (letting him go through the on the job training), do YOU think Maatta by February or March would be a better defenseman than Nisky?

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

There you go. I'm sure he'll stay near the top anyways. Wins that is.

I hope it lasts, really happy for Flower. He deserved that shutout tonight

 

[ColePens]

4. What did you think of what the Pens did structurally defensively? The LW lock looked decent, but I'm interested in your thoughts here. Improvement? Did it look like they were trying a few things?

This is something I focused on. Much of the same but man they communicated extremely well down low. I could hear them talking from where I was sitting. Everyone was communicating and staying on the same path.

I get a bit nervous of how quickly we leave the zone, though.

 

[KIRK]

And I know it's been beaten to death, but a 4th line of Z, Vitale, and Adams even would be fun. It just makes too much sense. Sooooo much energy.

Also.. I'm going to be rough on Sutter this season. He needs to step it up. His puck possession skills are awful. It needs fixed. He needs to find a role here because he faltered big time last postseason.

What are you, psychic? I was asking you the same question in a reply to your first post as you were posting this.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Oh how I wish that 4th line had been Sill-Vitale-Z.

There actually was someone here who defended the idea of Adams getting almost 6 minutes in the third and Bennett getting just under 3 and a half minutes.

BTW, thoughts on the defensive 'structure'? Kind of liked the LW lock until they stopped bothering to run it. Also thought there was a much better effort to get sticks in lanes and keep the middle of the zone clear (of course, Maatta-Borts was the pairing that looked good in that regard, so I'm not sure if it was planned or they just don't know any better).

Honestly I think the Devils offensive ineptness was the biggest factor. I need to see this team against teams that can actually score before I can really make any sound judgements.

Seeing Adams and Glass continue to struggle to cover their zones is beyond frustrating. I need to switch the channel to Eat Street or something when they are on the ice, because it's never going to change. They won't suddenly get faster from a standstill or learn how to cycle well.

I don't think that he played THAT great. I was just curious...

This isn't the Maatta I am used to seeing. He looked hesitant and overmatched at times, but he didn't look like he shouldn't be playing in the NHL.. If that makes any sense.

Despres should really be up right now IMHO. His transition game is sorely missed when Letang is out.

I'm glad Maatta is getting a look, but if this was a fast transitioning team and not the Devils minus Kovy, Pens would of got bounced hard tonight I think.

Devils looked like the better team after the first ten minutes, they just lack the offensive punch to match their work ethic right now.

 

[Tender Rip]

+ Two points and shot out win.
+ Fleury. Massive third period and very good game in general after a few shaky stick plays to start the game. One of the best things that could happen for this team.
+ Very good game for Tanner Glass. Totally jobbed by the referees on three occasions (but nothing wrong with his boarding). Curiously this is most likely one of the worst things that could happen for this team .

Players individually didn't do poorly, quite a few did very well, but I hated our game. Far too early to be peeved of course, less so after a win, but we played really, really boring hockey, IMO.
No surprise our crowd was completely silent for the better part of 30 minutes after our 2-0 goal.
Yes - we scored three goals off the rush which is what we are always great at. We had other chances there also, always off the rush.
These are also the goals you don't get in a tight playoff series. We waited 55.30 to see anything RESEMBLING a cycle and offensive zone time. And that was a brief spell of pressure from Sid/Kunitz/Dupuis. That was all. We had no sustained zone time at any point all night. We had no pinching from D-men, we had no established attacks at all where we exit our zone, establish ourselves in the offensive zone and puts pressure on the opponent. It didn't happen at all. How is that possible? We were totally a one and done team.

This was the third NHL game I have seen this season, and I was switching over to the end of the Caps game afterwards and now I am watching Rangers at Phoenix. Watching the Pens-Devils game was like watching a different, much more boring sport. Hope this is not 'our game'.

 

[dannyj10]

+MAF reminded me of 08-09 that behind the back and penalty shot saves were amazing
+Maatta looked pretty darn good out there
+ can't believe im saying it but Glass didnt make me wanna punch myself

-Kunitz/Duper man those two frustrated me alot tonight. Still don't like Duper with Sid but they will never put Beau up there which i think would be a great fit for Sid.

Just praying MAF keeps his confidence up. Loved how hype the team was for him. You can tell they really back him.

 

[shureshot66]

Here is my take...

Plus (Just the stuff not discussed as much)

+ Beau: I love the small things this kid does. The chip/one-touch pass to Sutter created the momentum going forward for the first goal. He also has tremendous vision. I just love what a gem we have in Beau. He's the real deal.

+ Bort: Miles and miles and miles better than he was last season. His confidence is really picking up, too. I loved how he played. He was skating very well and was strong on the puck.

+ Scuds: Scuds made me feel comfy w/ Nisky. He is so steady. I also loved the defense in general. Thought Orpik/Martin played incredible, too. But Scuds is a guy who just does so well with the defensive zone. He pushes people off their route and disrupts flow. I love having #4 back.

+ Defense in general: I really like the make up of our defense. If Nisky goes and Letang comes in, we look great. Maatta blew my mind with how good he skated and passed. He's still 2 years away but we have a gem on our hands, boys. He's awesome. I guess Nisky will stay for the time being.


Minus

- Coaching decisions: 4th line against Jagr line early in the 1st period. Absolutely not. Putting the 4th line out there after 2 goals to ruin momentum. Absolutely not. Just STUPID piss-poor decisions like that can hurt you in the playoffs.


- No Support: Our breakout is strictly throwing the puck to the red line, chipping, and chasing. We do not support up the ice at all. The only time it actually worked, it executed perfectly w/ Beau to Sutter - shot off pads - goal by Koby.

- No puck possession in the o-zone: We are not a cycling team any more. This is where we miss Jordan Staal the most. I'm also going to start holding Sutter accountable because he's a push over when he's in the corners.

- This team is no different from last year. They have no support and don't make simple plays. Watch LA, Chicago, & Boston. They use area passes and chip into open space. We do not do that. They also come up with speed together AT LEAST on occasion. I hope fans watch how these guys play. It's playoff hockey. They also cycle very well. We focus solely on individual talent. I expect same results until I can see some fundamental changes. Luckily, it's a LONG season.

- I hate Glass. Worthless crap ass hockey player. He actually played decent and I still hate him. He's awful. DJ is even more worthless as a 4th line center. Just cut him and let him fulfill his career on another team's 3rd line.

Cole, I feel like a lot of the stuff you're upset about is things that were done by design. They're actively moving away from the styles of the teams you listed and are going to focus more on gumming up the neutral zone, collapsing around the net and generating offense off the counterattack.

I'm not disagreeing with your points, mind you. I'd rather see what you're talking about, too. But I think with Martin's influence on the gameplan now, we're going to a team that's more passive than before.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

2. Wrote this a few minutes ago, and I think an 'older' one like you may appreciate: Maatta reminds me of a young Teppo Numminen. Odd to consider: I was never really afraid of Maatta-Borts being out there (yes, I know, NJ is offensively anemic).

For the record, so am I. And a die-hard Jets fan at the time, to boot.

 

[KIRK]

This is something I focused on. Much of the same but man they communicated extremely well down low. I could hear them talking from where I was sitting. Everyone was communicating and staying on the same path.

I get a bit nervous of how quickly we leave the zone, though.

I know.

The one thing I caught was a lot of sticks in lanes and protecting the middle of their own zone. They weren't giving up the cheap stuff (until it because 3-0).

Will be interested to see if that positional discipline holds against better offensive teams.

 

[KIRK]

For the record, so am I. And a die-hard Jets fan at the time, to boot.

You know, this is like the 8th time we've agreed on something since camp began.

EDIT: O'k, I'll ask a question that I just asked Cole.

IF you traded Niskanen and let Maatta learn on the job, then do YOU think Maatta by February or March would be a better defenseman than Nisky? Why or why not?

I ask the question for two reasons: One, I was asking a similar question last year about Bennett (about if you really put him out there with Geno and Neal). Two, it would save 1.4M under the cap and really give Shero flexibility for the deadline that he doesn't have.

 

[ColePens]

Agree about not liking how we played, Tender. I think your right up is very fair. We didn't cycle at all. It was bad. No support and ZERO puck possession. It was not easy to watch.

But like they always do, skill took over in thi sone.

 

[ColePens]

Cole, I feel like a lot of the stuff you're upset about is things that were done by design. They're actively moving away from the styles of the teams you listed and are going to focus more on gumming up the neutral zone, collapsing around the net and generating offense off the counterattack.

I'm not disagreeing with your points, mind you. I'd rather see what you're talking about, too. But I think with Martin's influence on the gameplan now, we're going to a team that's more passive than before.

Yikes. I hope that isn't true. Do you think that's the best bet for the squad? I don't know if I like that idea.

I loved in 2009 when they came up with speed w/ short passes/chips. Then they kept it simple. Shoot off pads/crash the net. Simple. Actually how we got our GWG.

 

[Shockmaster]

Does anybody else feel like the Pens out-Deviled the Devils? Usually how it goes is that the Penguins out-work and out-shoot the Devils, and they get goals off turnovers and odd-man rushes and lose a low scoring game.

 

[ColePens]

Let's not get crazy, KIRK. Maatta played incredible but there is a lot he needs to work on. Keeping him in the NHL would NOT be a good thing. The talent is there for him to do it but it's not the best move for his career.

 

[KIRK]

Honestly I think the Devils offensive ineptness was the biggest factor. I need to see this team against teams that can actually score before I can really make any sound judgements.

Seeing Adams and Glass continue to struggle to cover their zones is beyond frustrating. I need to switch the channel to Eat Street or something when they are on the ice, because it's never going to change. They won't suddenly get faster from a standstill or learn how to cycle well.



This isn't the Maatta I am used to seeing. He looked hesitant and overmatched at times, but he didn't look like he shouldn't be playing in the NHL.. If that makes any sense.

Despres should really be up right now IMHO. His transition game is sorely missed when Letang is out.

I'm glad Maatta is getting a look, but if this was a fast transitioning team and not the Devils minus Kovy, Pens would of got bounced hard tonight I think.

Devils looked like the better team after the first ten minutes, they just lack the offensive punch to match their work ethic right now.

That's why Maatta gets the same love from me that Dangles got.

The question that I've got is what kind of defenseman would Maatta be in March if he plays 14 minutes a night? Is a Maatta-Borts or Nisky-Borts pairing better when the playoffs come?

 

[Horace]

Who cares about the outcome of the game! James Neal

Still sobbing

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Jiggy... I know we have mutual respect when it comes to hockey talk. Maatta deserves every single ounce of credit. His skating and his passing is tremendous. He's a gem. He will be a top pairing. He needs strength and professional experience now.

He's did ok and I'm not beating him down, just being realistic about what I'm seeing like I was with BB early on.

If Maatta is going to play over Despres, he needs to quickly get comfortable and play his game because this team desperately needs help in their transition game without Letang.

Despres' outlet and uncanny ability to jump into the play was sorely missed tonight without Letang.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Yikes. I hope that isn't true. Do you think that's the best bet for the squad? I don't know if I like that idea.

I loved in 2009 when they came up with speed w/ short passes/chips. Then they kept it simple. Shoot off pads/crash the net. Simple. Actually how we got our GWG.

This is basically what they're missing. They're not defensively responsible, all of them.

Globe Trotters is what we've been seeing. The Pens use to do it pretty well, yes, they had some very bumpy times, but overall their transition game was one of the tops back then.

You have me somewhat confused, Cole. I thought you wanted this?

 

[Darth Vitale]

i can't believe how much sucking up to Bylsma from rossi, shely and other moronic pgh hockey media

Why wouldn't they suck up to him? They're PR writers, not reporters. Literally. They are reporters in name only. There's only one guy in the group (who we don't hear from a lot) who has shown he has some balls. Name escapes me at the moment.

So what did everyone think of Maatta's debut?

I like heem very much...

 

[shureshot66]

Yikes. I hope that isn't true. Do you think that's the best bet for the squad? I don't know if I like that idea.

I loved in 2009 when they came up with speed w/ short passes/chips. Then they kept it simple. Shoot off pads/crash the net. Simple. Actually how we got our GWG.

No, I don't think it's the best thing for the squad. And I don't think it's a 60-minute thing, either. But from what I could gather tonight, it sounds like it's something to expect with a two-goal lead in the middle of the game like we saw tonight.

Word trickling out from the arena tonight was that they really didn't showcase much of Martin's schematic tweaks (Jacques, that is) during the preseason. Obviously it's not a complete overhaul -- the stretch-pass-and-tip-in-the-neutral-zone is still the breakout of choice. And I don't think they're going to go full-blown trap and completely dial back on the forecheck. But I do think it's going to be a different feel this season.

 

[KIRK]

Let's not get crazy, KIRK. Maatta played incredible but there is a lot he needs to work on. Keeping him in the NHL would NOT be a good thing. The talent is there for him to do it but it's not the best move for his career.

Right now, no. But, where is his game going to be in a week? Maybe I'm 100% off, but I think he internalizes and grows from every single experience. I'll be interested to see if he makes the same mistake a second time in game two. Something tells me he won't. For as much as I'd like to see Despres playing, I think that this is why the coaching staff ***** on him as much as the 'in or out of shape thing'. He makes the same mistakes. I'm not excusing the coaching staff's thinking, but I think that's why Maatta stayed with Letang out while say, two years ago, Morrow went with a Lovejoy-Engo third pairing with Orpik out.

 

[ColePens]

He's did ok and I'm not beating him down, just being realistic about what I'm seeing like I was with BB early on.

If Maatta is going to play over Despres, he needs to quickly get comfortable and play his game because this team desperately needs help in their transition game without Letang.

Despres' outlet and uncanny ability to jump into the play was sorely missed tonight without Letang.

Oh I don't think you are wrong saying that. I'm just talking about the future for Maatta. It's rich. Despres is a better pro hockey player right now.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

He's did ok and I'm not beating him down, just being realistic about what I'm seeing like I was with BB early on.

If Maatta is going to play over Despres, he needs to quickly get comfortable and play his game because this team desperately needs help in their transition game without Letang.

Despres' outlet and uncanny ability to jump into the play was sorely missed tonight without Letang.

Which begs the question of why Despres got sent down when we're missing Letang?

 

[Shrimper]

Saw my first fight.

Jagr was awful.