Please sell this team, Melnyk / Budget talk II

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Isn't San Jose's tv deal like less than 5 mil? I'm sure there's other ways we compete with larger populations. I wonder if we sell more merchandise than some of the less intense American markets with bigger pop?

SJ is threatening to move the team if they don't null and void the current TV deal, not sure if it is an empty threat, or not.

Also, I know the SJ owners not too long ago talked about how they lose money every year, but they have to suck it up because that's sports. Again, I guess it depends on how much you trust what owners say.

 

[FireMelnyk]

You're not listening

Winnipeg's arena can't hold much more than 15,000, it's a small arena

Why wouldn't they build a bigger arena to maximize profits if they were such a stellar market? Do they foresee a problem with ticket sales once the mandatory season ticket window has elapsed?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

How about you read up on the lead up to the Jets coming back? This is all fairly common knowledge and should be easy to find, I don't remember all the details

 

[BonkTastic]

Winnipeg's arena: 15,004 capacity
Winnipeg's average ticket price: $81.49
Winnipeg's expected gate revenue from a sellout: $1,222,676

Ottawa's Arena: 18,108
Ottawa's average ticket price: $43.51
Ottawa's expected gate revenue from a sellout: $787,879


Despite capacity differences, the Sens only make ~64.5% of the gate revenue (a difference of $434,797 per game) that the Jets do on a night-by-night basis. Over a 41 game home schedule, that's a difference of $17.8mil that the Jets are making more than the Sens on gate revenue.



... In theory. Assuming the numbers are right, and not cooked.

 

[Micklebot]

Isn't San Jose's tv deal like less than 5 mil? I'm sure there's other ways we compete with larger populations. I wonder if we sell more merchandise than some of the less intense American markets with bigger pop?

Yeah, it's terribad, but they are trying to re-negotiate it. They bought into a long term deal before the ratings were there.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Why wouldn't they build a bigger arena to maximize profits if they were such a stellar market? Do they foresee a problem with ticket sales once the mandatory season ticket window has elapsed?

Simply money!

New arenas aren't cheap.

 

[Ouroboros]

True North own a gaming centre/casino across the street from the arena which helps subsidize their operation.

How do you like them apples, Eugene?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Melnyk was ****ed over by stupid municipal politics

Council would rather prop up a dump in the middle of ****ing nowhere instead of going for a casino in a developping suburb

 

[HavlatMach9]

... In theory. Assuming the numbers are right, and not cooked.

before I would accept that, I would like to see other reports that count those things, because I remember that that report was the first one that had the Sens that low where normally the Sens are near the middle.

actually I believe it was a different report (same site different year) that I saw, so perhaps it is true that Ottawa's ticket prices are one of the lowest.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Winnipeg's arena: 15,004 capacity
Winnipeg's average ticket price: $81.49
Winnipeg's expected gate revenue from a sellout: $1,222,676

Ottawa's Arena: 18,108
Ottawa's average ticket price: $43.51
Ottawa's expected gate revenue from a sellout: $787,879


Despite capacity differences, the Sens only make ~64.5% of the gate revenue (a difference of $434,797 per game) that the Jets do on a night-by-night basis. Over a 41 game home schedule, that's a difference of $17.8mil that the Jets are making more than the Sens on gate revenue.



... In theory. Assuming the numbers are right, and not cooked.

Probably pretty close, as well the Jets had a better TV deal with TSN, until this year.

North Sports and Entertainment got commitments for the 13,000 seats in a matter of a few days in June 2011, it entered into three-, four- and five-year deals with ticket holders and promised not to exceed a three per cent increase in any year.

Ottawa on the other hand still struggles to get 13000 STHs with much lower ticket prices and little to no price increases.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Winnipeg population 783K (2013)
http://www.cbc.ca/manitoba/features/1000000/

Ottawa population 883K (2011)
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-.../Facts-csd-eng.cfm?Lang=Eng&GK=CSD&GC=3506008

I guess those 250,000 people in Gatineau don't count because there is a pretend line in the middle of that river.

 

[The Fuhr*]

I guess those 250,000 people in Gatineau don't count because there is a pretend line in the middle of that river.

So population is not a problem... Why is ottawa not spending?

 

[Holdurbreathe]

before I would accept that, I would like to see other reports that count those things, because I remember that that report was the first one that had the Sens that low where normally the Sens are near the middle.

If you are purely talking ticket prices Ottawa is near the bottom of the NHL.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

So population is not a problem... Why is ottawa not spending?

I don't know. I bet if we ***** and complain enough maybe we'll figure it out though

 

[The Fuhr*]

Either Ottawa is the worst market in the league to justify the lowest payroll in the NHL

Or

Melnyks keeping payroll down so he can pocket money for his other ventures

One or the other

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Either Ottawa is the worst market in the league to justify the lowest payroll in the NHL

Or

Melnyks keeping payroll down so he can pocket money for his other ventures

One or the other

Or its a combination of many things, not just one giant thing.

Like pretty much everything.

 

[BigRig4]

On a somewhat unrelated note... The timing of our tv deal was pretty lucky in terms of getting the most money. You've gotta think if we sign that deal today it's less than after we were considered a dark horse cup pick, unless I'm completely misunderstanding how that works.

 

[Micklebot]

Winnipeg's arena: 15,004 capacity
Winnipeg's average ticket price: $81.49
Winnipeg's expected gate revenue from a sellout: $1,222,676

Ottawa's Arena: 18,108
Ottawa's average ticket price: $43.51
Ottawa's expected gate revenue from a sellout: $787,879


Despite capacity differences, the Sens only make ~64.5% of the gate revenue (a difference of $434,797 per game) that the Jets do on a night-by-night basis. Over a 41 game home schedule, that's a difference of $17.8mil that the Jets are making more than the Sens on gate revenue.



... In theory. Assuming the numbers are right, and not cooked.

Take your logic and ration arguments back to Jakarta! This is SENSNATION HF style

 

[Holdurbreathe]

So population is not a problem... Why is ottawa not spending?

Well there has been plenty of information provided on this board to explain the current Senator spending level.

Yet you have chosen to ignore all the data provided and continue to ask the same question.

Seem to me you don't really want any plausible explanation you just want to complain.

 

[BonkTastic]

before I would accept that, I would like to see other reports that count those things, because I remember that that report was the first one that had the Sens that low where normally the Sens are near the middle.

Yeah, I'd like to see accurate numbers too. That's why I put in that caveat, about cooked numbers.

To be fair though, I've heard MUCH higher Jets Average Ticket Price figures than the $81.49 I quoted in my post above.

For instance, Forbes has the Sens gate recepts at $29 mil, and the Jets at $32 mil, which is a much smaller difference than the quick math I did using possibly incorrect numbers. I also assume that Forbes factored in things like provincial tax rates, and other associated costs that I clearly did not.

Pretty much EVERY number I've ever seen shows that the Jets make more money on gate income than the Sens do, regardless of the size of the arenas.

 

[Engineer]

Melnyk was ****ed over by stupid municipal politics

Council would rather prop up a dump in the middle of ****ing nowhere instead of going for a casino in a developping suburb

You keep whining about this. Melnyk shouldn't have to rely on a casino to support the team in the first place.

Also, the CTC is in the middle of nowhere as well, and South Ottawa - Manotick, Barrhaven, Gloucester are growing fast.

And on another unrelated point, the casino, the RCR, and the rink should all be located downtown, not in suburbs.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

"Shouldn't have to"

Please

If that's what the team needs in order to spend more then so be it

This is the real world

 

[Laoghaire]

I guess those 250,000 people in Gatineau don't count because there is a pretend line in the middle of that river.

They also, by and large, support the Habs.

 

[WilderPegasus*]

Winnipeg's arena: 15,004 capacity
Winnipeg's average ticket price: $81.49
Winnipeg's expected gate revenue from a sellout: $1,222,676

Ottawa's Arena: 18,108
Ottawa's average ticket price: $43.51
Ottawa's expected gate revenue from a sellout: $787,879


Despite capacity differences, the Sens only make ~64.5% of the gate revenue (a difference of $434,797 per game) that the Jets do on a night-by-night basis. Over a 41 game home schedule, that's a difference of $17.8mil that the Jets are making more than the Sens on gate revenue.



... In theory. Assuming the numbers are right, and not cooked.

Those numbers are off but even if they weren't, they don't reflect reality. They're for season ticket holder prices for regular seats and don't include premium seats which are more expensive in Ottawa. Nor do they reflect suites which the Sens have almost 100 more than the Jets. They also neglect the premium prices that are charged for single game tickets against teams like the Habs and Leafs.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

They also, by and large, support the Habs.

Maybe, but plenty of them have seasons tickets and go to non hab games. That's what matters