Please sell this team, Melnyk / Budget talk II

[Quo]

Population alone does not make a market.

 

[BonkTastic]

Population alone does not make a market.

True. If it were otherwise, Atlanta would still have a team. Twice.

 

[LatteLarrys]

Winnipeg population 783K (2013)
http://www.cbc.ca/manitoba/features/1000000/

Ottawa population 883K (2011)
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-.../Facts-csd-eng.cfm?Lang=Eng&GK=CSD&GC=3506008

But is that an accurate/adequate indicator of the -market- population?

 

[HavlatMach9]

if you suggest our hockey market is small compared to the Jets, then show it, so far you're 0% of the way there

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Don't the Jets have season ticket holders signed up for another year or two as a condition for the team coming back to Winnipeg?

 

[BonkTastic]

if you suggest our hockey market is small compared to the Jets, then show it, so far you're 0% of the way there

Well, there's no concrete numbers to prove it because there's never been a census that records this sort of data, but I'd say Ottawa suffers from the fact that 1/3 of the city are still either Leafs fans or Habs fans.

Completely unsubstantiated estimate on my part, but fairly accurate from my own experience and observation.

 

[The Fuhr*]

if you suggest our hockey market is small compared to the Jets, then show it, so far you're 0% of the way there

So Ottawa has just a big a market Winnipeg but can't afford the same payroll... Interesting

 

[HavlatMach9]

Don't the Jets have season ticket holders signed up for another year or two as a condition for the team coming back to Winnipeg?

i think that was a 'personal goal' kinda thing, but the honeymoon of just having an NHL team is supposedly over as the Jets aren't being successful

 

[Goat Boy]

People in Ottawa will never be as rabid about a sports team as people on Winnipeg. And Ottawa has all the Leafs and Habs residue to deal with. And the Winnipeg Jets appeal to an audience far wider than the city itself, representing the province moreso than just the city.

Essentially its 1.2 million diehards in Manitoba vs. 500,000 couldn't-care-less public servants in Ottawa.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

But is that an accurate/adequate indicator of the -market- population?

No.

While obviously population is a factor, corporate presence, provincial & local government involvement, competition, etc have huge influences.

For example, Ottawa has Montreal and Toronto to compete with in this market, both long established original six teams that still hold a significant fanbase in the city.

 

[LatteLarrys]

if you suggest our hockey market is small compared to the Jets, then show it, so far you're 0% of the way there

I know many people on here are skeptical of Forbes' methodology, but for what it's worth, http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/#page:2_sort:0_direction:asc_search: pretty comparable in many respects, but Ottawa has the edge on every category.

What are the avg ticket prices for both franchises?

 

[FireMelnyk]

Ottawa average attendance 18,108, Winnipeg 15,004. Winnipeg isn't a hockey market, they can't even support their team.

 

[HavlatMach9]

So Ottawa has just a big a market Winnipeg but can't afford the same payroll... Interesting

you are suggesting a direct causation of payroll to market size, so show that it's true.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Winnipeg's arena is 15,000

 

[FireMelnyk]

Winnipeg's arena is 15,000

You would think that a hockey market like Winnipeg could support an average attendance greater than 15,000. I wonder how long before they start looking to move the team.

 

[BonkTastic]

Ottawa average attendance 18,108, Winnipeg 15,004. Winnipeg isn't a hockey market, they can't even support their team.

What's Ottawa's average ticket price vs Winnipeg's average ticket price?

That will close the gap.

 

[The Fuhr*]

you are suggesting a direct causation of payroll to market size, so show that it's true.

Ottawas payroll is the lowest in the league and I'm beginning to think might be the smallest market

 

[Laoghaire]

People in Ottawa will never be as rabid about a sports team as people on Winnipeg. And Ottawa has all the Leafs and Habs residue to deal with. And the Winnipeg Jets appeal to an audience far wider than the city itself, representing the province moreso than just the city.

Essentially its 1.2 million diehards in Manitoba vs. 500,000 could-care-less public servants in Ottawa.

Those residual Leafs and Habs fans really serve to make this a terrible market. It's a huge part of why I hate them.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

As a public servant I would take offense to Goat Boy's comment, but I couldn't care less really.

 

[HavlatMach9]

Ottawas payroll is the lowest in the league and I'm beginning to think might be the smallest market

it's up to the owner to set a budget. the lowest payroll in the largest market is possible depending on the owner

 

[LatteLarrys]

Those residual Leafs and Habs fans really serve to make this a terrible market. It's a huge part of why I hate them.

Yes ... we must remain competitive so that we can proselytize these heathens and convert their children.

 

[BigRig4]

Isn't San Jose's tv deal like less than 5 mil? I'm sure there's other ways we compete with larger populations. I wonder if we sell more merchandise than some of the less intense American markets with bigger pop?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

You would think that a hockey market like Winnipeg could support an average attendance greater than 15,000. I wonder how long before they start looking to move the team.

You're not listening

Winnipeg's arena can't hold much more than 15,000, it's a small arena

 

[Smash88]

People in Ottawa will never be as rabid about a sports team as people on Winnipeg. And Ottawa has all the Leafs and Habs residue to deal with. And the Winnipeg Jets appeal to an audience far wider than the city itself, representing the province moreso than just the city.

Essentially its 1.2 million diehards in Manitoba vs. 500,000 could-care-less public servants in Ottawa.

Hey now, I'm a PS with season tickets.

Actually almost all of us PS'ers that go to games have to buy our tickets, versus most of my friends in the private sector that get given tickets most of the time..

 

[HavlatMach9]

I wonder if we sell more merchandise than some of the less intense American markets with bigger pop?

i believe that gets shared equally, so since people for some reason buy more Crosby jerseys than Condra jerseys, it's ok because we get a share of it.