Playoffs or Chia fired?

[CantHaveTkachev]

No they didn't have that benefit, but they still had benefit of adding Draisaitl (no.3 overall) and Nurse (no.7 overall) and already had Klefbom from the '13 draft who would be coming into his own. On top of that they also had picks where they could have come away with Barzal/Connor and the following year another top 5 pick that could have been Tkachuk or Sergachev.

The Oilers have no grounds to complain about not having good fortune land in their lap, the haul of player's this team had/could've had is staggering.

To be honest, to start a team, I probably would take

McDavid, Draisaitl, Hall, RNH, Barzal or Connor, Nurse, Klefbom

over

Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Fleury, Whitney

Malkin is great, but Draisaitl and Hall cancel him out.

I remember when we had Hall, RNH, Yakupov aka OV-lite, Schultz, Dubnyk...that team was poised for greatness too...

 

[rambo97]

Trading and contract negotiation ARE the two main things a GM does.

We saw what Chiarelli's "draft judgement" was, he thought Reinhart over taking several hugely talented players at that spot was a decent enough idea.

Keith Gretzky is the one who's behind the drafting, the Bruins drafting was mediocre in the years before when it was just Chia. But we have Keith Gretzky now. So exactly what is Chiarelli bringing to the table?

To build a slow, physical team? Oh wait now fast, skill is the way the league is going ... so basically you hired an Italian chef to cook, but the restaurant is now Indian. What about any of this makes any sense?

Can't trade, can't negotiate contracts, has never built a fast, skilled team ... and this all supposed to be OK? This is freaking insane.

You are clueless. And you are going on about something as if you do. Anyways I'm not going to post articles from a paid subscription site so here's a small snippet from a free source from google:

What Makes A Successful NHL General Manager? New Book Takes A Look

 

[StevenF1919]

we had three #1 picks, Jordan Eberle, Justin Schultz, Jeff Petry, Devan Dubnyk....
did you ever see more than 32 wins in a season with that group? the answer is no...and people seem to think we have more "depth" back then

the only thing we ever did is watch them die on the vine, loser season after loser season...

Chiarelli had McDavid, Hall, Draisaitl, Eberle, Nuge, Klefbom, Nurse, and two high picks in an excellent draft. If you can't create a contender from that core, you don't even deserve to be a GM in NHL 18.

 

[Soundwave]

You are clueless. And you are going on about something as if you do. Anyways I'm not going to post articles from a paid subscription site so here's a small snippet from a free source from google:

What Makes A Successful NHL General Manager? New Book Takes A Look

OK great, so it's no big deal if a GM can't trade well or sign contracts and has no experience building the type of team that's having success. I'm sure that "new book" has all the answers.

Maybe you should buy it for Chiarelli, looks like he could use it.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Chiarelli had McDavid, Hall, Draisaitl, Eberle, Nuge, Klefbom, Nurse, and two high picks in an excellent draft. If you can't create a contender from that core, you don't even deserve to be a GM in NHL 18.

he did...without Hall and with Lucic outscoring Hall

 

[Soundwave]

I remember when we had Hall, RNH, Yakupov aka OV-lite, Schultz, Dubnyk...that team was poised for greatness too...

The only true elite player there is Hall, the rest are OK support players. Those players were never that good, some of that is bad luck (especially with Yakupov).

McDavid and Draisaitl ARE that good though. Klefbom and Nurse are also at least as good as Schultz, probably both better defensively.

Do you deny any of that?

These are not 4 nothing additions. Those are 4 huge additions.

Put it another way give Tambellini Crosby + Kopitar + two solid young D to go with Hall + RNH + Eberle + Schultz ... you seriously don't think that would make any difference either way?

 

[StevenF1919]

he did...without Hall and with Lucic outscoring Hall

Oh? I seem to recall them being practically eliminated from the playoffs by December last year? Or were you referring to them being draft lottery contenders?

And making it to the 2nd round two years ago doesn't make a team a contender, especially when your only series win comes against an aging Sharks team missing half their team due to injuries.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

The only true elite player there is Hall, the rest are OK support players. Those players were never that good.

McDavid and Draisaitl ARE that good. Klefbom and Nurse are also at least as good as Schultz, probably both better defensively.

Do you deny any of that?

These are not 4 nothing additions.

you're missing my point

every year we would here how great the team is gonna be because of some young stud, and every year they'd disappoint...why would it different this time?

heck, Hall's last season here he played 82 games and the Oilers still finished 2nd last in the league

 

[StevenF1919]

The only true elite player there is Hall, the rest are OK support players. Those players were never that good, some of that is bad luck (especially with Yakupov).

McDavid and Draisaitl ARE that good though. Klefbom and Nurse are also at least as good as Schultz, probably both better defensively.

Do you deny any of that?

These are not 4 nothing additions. Those are 4 huge additions.

Put it another way give Tambellini Crosby + Getzlaf + two solid young D to go with Hall + RNH + Eberle + Schultz ... you seriously don't think that would make any difference either way?

Imagine using Steve Tambellini as the bar to measure your GM against...

 

[yukoner88]

Instead of squabbling over how bad we have to be to see people fired, we hope to see the end of the perfect storm that sunk the team last season.

 

[Soundwave]

you're missing my point

every year we would here how great the team is gonna be because of some young stud, and every year they'd disappoint...why would it different this time?

heck, Hall's last season here he played 82 games and the Oilers still finished 2nd last in the league

You are missing the point too by being stuck in this "well we had talent in the past, so I guess that means talent means nothing".

No it doesn't, you are grossly over simplifying the issue. First of all that so-called "talent" was never that great, it's clear even with RNH and especially Yakupov the Oilers got hosed. Had that been say Stamkos + Ekblad or something as the consensus no.1 overalls in those year, then yes, you could say they were talented. Hall was the only real, legit star player the Oilers had.

What's different now is McDavid and Draisaitl ARE actually that good. McDavid compares equally to a young SIDNEY CROSBY. Draisaitl is comparable to a young Anze Kopitar. Hall is comparable to Phil Kessel.

On top of that you have Darnell Nurse (no.7 overall) and Oscar Klefbom (1st round pick) coming of age to the point where they are NHL regulars on the blue line, something we didn't have in the 2010-2015 years.

And on top of that, the Oilers got gifted chances in the 2015 and 16 drafts to add *even more* to that group.

People have every right to say "this is really, really f***ed up". This is not normal.

 

[Little Fury]

you're missing my point

every year we would here how great the team is gonna be because of some young stud, and every year they'd disappoint...why would it different this time?

heck, Hall's last season here he played 82 games and the Oilers still finished 2nd last in the league

Because the players we have are supposed to be better?

I mean, if you think McDavid, Drai, Klef, Nurse are the equivalent of Hall, RNH, Yakupov, Schultz, Dubnyk, then we're screwed.

 

[StevenF1919]

Instead of squabbling over how bad we have to be to see people fired, we hope to see the end of the perfect storm that sunk the team last season.

The season two years ago where we made the playoffs was a perfect storm of good luck. With average luck last season, we likely just miss the playoffs or sneak in as a wildcard and get bounced in the first round. Ditto with the team this year, although with Sekera likely out for the season our playoff chances are even worse.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Oh? I seem to recall them being practically eliminated from the playoffs by December last year? Or were you referring to them being draft lottery contenders?

and they finished 8th in the league 2 years ago with the exact same core you mentioned minus Hall..why can't they do it again?

And making it to the 2nd round two years ago doesn't make a team a contender, especially when your only series win comes against an aging Sharks team missing half their team due to injuries.

dismiss it all you want, fans and media alike had them as Cup contenders last summer

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

You are missing the point too by being stuck in this "well we had talent in the past, so I guess that means talent means nothing".

No it doesn't, you are grossly over simplifying the issue. First of all that so-called "talent" was never that great, it's clear even with RNH and especially Yakupov the Oilers got hosed. Had that been say Stamkos + Ekblad or something as the consensus no.1 overalls in those year, then yes, you could say they were talented. Hall was the only real, legit star player the Oilers had.

well of course, because we have the benefit of hindsight

doesn't change the fact the Oilers were always considered to have the best young "core" in the NHL...only to consistently disappoint on the ice

 

[Little Fury]

and they finished 8th in the league 2 years ago with the exact same core you mentioned minus Hall..why can't they do it again?

If things break just right, then yeah, it could happen. But it'll take a lot of good luck and some real overachievement.

dismiss it all you want, fans and media alike had them as Cup contenders last summer

And smart people saw that that was wishful thinking.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Because the players we have are supposed to be better?

I mean, if you think McDavid, Drai, Klef, Nurse are the equivalent of Hall, RNH, Yakupov, Schultz, Dubnyk, then we're screwed.

obviously not...but at the time as were supposed to have one of the best young "cores" in the league...yet it never translated to results on the ice

 

[Soundwave]

well of course, because we have the benefit of hindsight

doesn't change the fact the Oilers were always considered to have the best young "core" in the NHL...only to consistently disappoint on the ice

Only because people thought RNH and Yakupov would be comparable to players like Stamkos and Ovechkin.

And if that was the case, then sure, that was a fair expectation. Fact is Nugent Hopkins never really played like a superstar player outside of his first 50 games or so here.

Yakupov was largely a bust his entire tenure.

You can't seriously say that core was talented, 2/3 1st rounders weren't that good, one a full on bust.

The fact is the hockey gods made it up to the Oilers by giving them Sidney Crosby 2.0 + Diet Anze Kopitar + a chance to take Barzal + a chance to take Sergachev.

THAT is legitimate talent, not just Oiler fans getting ahead of the gun.

2010-2015, the only star player the Oilers had was Hall, aside from a half season RNH as a rookie.

McDavid + Draisaitl + Hall in time is legitimately three star players (especially if Leon gets to play with Hall), even a Flames fan in the long term wouldn't be able to deny it. RNH + Nurse + Klefbom further to that are pretty OK "support" players. Eberle you can say long term is a cap casuality, ok fine. There is no way that is not a lot of freaking talent to work with.

 

[Little Fury]

obviously not...but at the time as were supposed to have one of the best young "cores" in the league...yet it never translated to results on the ice

In part because they weren't that good and in part because they were never able to build a team around the talent they had. And it seems not much has changed.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

If things break just right, then yeah, it could happen. But it'll take a lot of good luck and some real overachievement.

I think with average goaltending and special teams, the Oilers are a "bubble" team
with a push from Puljujarvi or Yamamoto..and Lucic recovering a bit, I think this team could finish top 3 in the division for sure

And smart people saw that that was wishful thinking.

I'm sure you totally saw them coming in 22nd right?

 

[StevenF1919]

and they finished 8th in the league 2 years ago with the exact same core you mentioned minus Hall..why can't they do it again?

Sure, they could do it again if they fluke into another season with perfect injury luck (0 injuries to key players all season is ridiculous), practically every player having a career year, and Talbot putting up Vezina-calibre stats. Literally everything went right that season. Everything. To sit back and expect that to be repeated instead of fixing the glaring holes in the roster is ridiculous, and leads to what we saw last season.

dismiss it all you want, fans and media alike had them as Cup contenders last summer

Anyone who had them as Cup contenders last summer was delusional. Me and several other posters here correctly predicted their unsustainable luck coming to an end, and pretty much all of the media people and bloggers I respect said the same thing. Anyone predicting them to contend for the cup was either a homer, on the Oilers payroll (Baghdad Bob), was saying it for clicks, or lives in a timezone where it's not practical to watch any Oilers games. The team missing the playoffs last season was completely predictable, and lucky for me I was able to make a ton of money betting on their regression, almost enough to recoup the money I pissed away on season tickets.

 

[Soundwave]

They actually really don't even have the "same core" as 2 years ago anymore.

Maroon, Sekera, Eberle, Letestu were all reasonable to big contributors to that 16-17 team. That's a large chunk of a roster.

This is not the same team and even that team needed a lot of things to go right.

 

[Little Fury]

I think with average goaltending and special teams, the Oilers are a "bubble" team with a push from Puljujarvi or Yamamoto..and Lucic recovering a bit, I think this team could finish top 3 in the division for sure

I mean sure, but the Pacific is pretty terrible, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. But we're miles from seeing a real cup contender here.

I'm sure you totally saw them coming in 22nd right?

I had them as a bubble team, which is what they would have been if they weren't killed by special teams/goaltending. One year later, not much has changed.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Sure, they could do it again if they fluke into another season with perfect injury luck (0 injuries to key players all season is ridiculous), practically every player having a career year, and Talbot putting up Vezina-calibre stats. Literally everything went right that season. Everything. To sit back and expect that to be repeated instead of fixing the glaring holes in the roster is ridiculous, and leads to what we saw last season.

and everything went wrong this past season..from historic home PK woes to 31st PP with McDavid and Drai to goaltending to Lucic getting 1 goal in 48 games
the truth lies somewhere in the middle

Anyone who had them as Cup contenders last summer was delusional. Me and several other posters here correctly predicted their unsustainable luck coming to an end, and pretty much all of the media people and bloggers I respect said the same thing. Anyone predicting them to contend for the cup was either a homer, on the Oilers payroll (Baghdad Bob), was saying it for clicks, or lives in a timezone where it's not practical to watch any Oilers games. The team missing the playoffs last season was completely predictable, and lucky for me I was able to make a ton of money betting on their regression, almost enough to recoup the money I pissed away on season tickets.

so you predicted them finishing 22nd last year?

 

[Soundwave]

and everything went wrong this past season..from historic home PK woes to 31st PP with McDavid and Drai to goaltending to Lucic getting 1 goal in 48 games
the truth lies somewhere in the middle


so you predicted them finishing 22nd last year?

Not everything went wrong.

McDavid played all 82 games and won the Art Ross. Draisaitl played 78/82. What happens to this team if some things normalize but either one of these two players is hurt for even 10 games?

Bye bye playoffs.

At this point any injury to any one of Nurse, Klefbom, or Larsson would also be catastrophic.

Literally no core player on this team can get injured even if other things "normalize".

This team is ridiculously fragile, any little thing that isn't just perfect for them and they collapse. The "veteran leader" on the team is such a headcase that he falls into a depressed state for half the season and can't score on an empty net.