Playoffs of Laine/Matthews

[TheNumber4]

Well the fact his playoff performance last year doesn't count is also a little suspicious. He was shut down by Bergeron and Chara, he's not the first player to be shut down by them and he won't be the last.

It's not that suspicious. When assessing a player's current performance, you don't count years past.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

It's not that suspicious. When assessing a player's current performance, you don't count years past.

Then people should make sure to specify that. When someone says something like he disappears in the playoffs that's incorrect. You can't have it both ways you can't make sweeping statements about a player and then only use a small sample to justify it.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

I'd love just one thread where trolling didn't ruin everything. It's always the same thing a neutral thread starts then someone (usually not even a fan of either team) goes to far and it becomes a race to the bottom about how to devalue the other player.

*That's not directed at you btw, just frustration over the entire exchange.

I fully agree.

I mean....some fun banter back and forth is always good but it ALWAYS dives into messes like this.

Admittedly I've been part of it before and I'll probably be a part of it again (I'm weak lol) so I am not the solution.

I thought the playoffs would kill any Matthews/Laine talk and I've been extremely wrong.

 

[Peiskos]

I fully agree.

I mean....some fun banter back and forth is always good but it ALWAYS dives into messes like this.

Admittedly I've been part of it before and I'll probably be a part of it again (I'm weak lol) so I am not the solution.

I thought the playoffs would kill any Matthews/Laine talk and I've been extremely wrong.

Don't know how the playoffs would kill any of the Matthews/Laine talk. I still believe Matthews is the superior player, the more valuable one too based on their positions, just because Laine plays on a better well rounded team it doesn't automatically make him better than Matthews.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I fully agree.

I mean....some fun banter back and forth is always good but it ALWAYS dives into messes like this.

Admittedly I've been part of it before and I'll probably be a part of it again (I'm weak lol) so I am not the solution.

I thought the playoffs would kill any Matthews/Laine talk and I've been extremely wrong.

I was hoping it would end once they weren't competing for the Calder, there isn't a reason to compare them apart from their draft position. They almost never play against one another, they don't have a history with each other and they don't even play the same position.

I also think if fans of other teams would stop meddling it would die down quicker.

 

[Hunter368]

I was hoping it would end once they weren't competing for the Calder, there isn't a reason to compare them apart from their draft position. They almost never play against one another, they don't have a history with each other and they don't even play the same position.

I also think if fans of other teams would stop meddling it would die down quicker.

I agree, but in reality there are posters from both the Leafs & Jets and most certainly other teams (these are the most common ones) who won't let it die and just want to stir things up. Any Laine vs AM comment inserted in any thread is a sure fire way to start a flame war.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

Don't know how the playoffs would kill any of the Matthews/Laine talk. I still believe Matthews is the superior player, the more valuable one too based on their positions, just because Laine plays on a better well rounded team it doesn't automatically make him better than Matthews.

And I agree with that statement.

 

[glucker]

And miss out on great sports commentary like I'm a wimp and I should run back to my mommy?

Pretty much.

At least with a guy like TWS, he has the good grace to ghost you when you prove him wrong.

The guys I blocked from this thread just keep shifting the goalposts, and ignoring facts. It’s tiresome.

One genius said Leivo outperformed Matthews in all the tournaments they played together.

 

[Peiskos]

And I agree with that statement.

It just feels like there is this fake/fabricated rivalry between Toronto and Winnipeg because of this Matthews-Laine garbage. As a Leafs fan I truly want to support the Jets as one of 5 remaining teams. I was one of the most vocal supporters of Winnipeg getting their team back. Little did I know Jets fans (not all) but seems like a lot dislike the Leafs which is unfortunate and a bit confusing to me because there is absolutely zero history of these two teams hating each other.

 

[nobody]

Yea, I don't understand how/why the Jets fans hate the Leafs. There has literally been 0 meaningful games between the two teams. Even the Laine/ Matthews thing is overblown. I don't think anyone in Toronto gives it a second thought and Matthews is who we all prayed for. Jets lucked out with Laine and they had no shot at Matthews so what's with all the hate between the two fan bases.

It seems like the same 5/6 people on both sides of the fence are driving the narrative and turning this into a debate that doesn't need to exist.

 

[nobody]

Both players have underperformed in the playoffs. Quite disappointed actually. I was hoping for game changing abilities by both of them.

I can't speak for Laine but Matthews was pretty much put in the worst spot possible by Babcock. Boston basically double and triple teamed Matthews and while he was completely nullified, his teammates couldn't get a whole lot going. I think the whole line's dynamic and perhaps the outcome of the series would've been different had William Nylander decided not to disappear. It wasn't like he was being targeted. Oh well. Chalk it up as a big learning point and come back smarter next year.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Yea, I don't understand how/why the Jets fans hate the Leafs. There has literally been 0 meaningful games between the two teams. Even the Laine/ Matthews thing is overblown. I don't think anyone in Toronto gives it a second thought and Matthews is who we all prayed for. Jets lucked out with Laine and they had no shot at Matthews so what's with all the hate between the two fan bases.

It seems like the same 5/6 people on both sides of the fence are driving the narrative and turning this into a debate that doesn't need to exist.

Totally agree, last season with the Calder it sort of made sense but this season and going forward it makes none. I still think part of the problem is that fans of neither team goad each side on.

The only way we should be rivals is if we both end up in the finals.

 

[glucker]

It just feels like there is this fake/fabricated rivalry between Toronto and Winnipeg because of this Matthews-Laine garbage. As a Leafs fan I truly want to support the Jets as one of 5 remaining teams. I was one of the most vocal supporters of Winnipeg getting their team back. Little did I know Jets fans (not all) but seems like a lot dislike the Leafs which is unfortunate and a bit confusing to me because there is absolutely zero history of these two teams hating each other.

It’s funny the way it played out. Jets and Leafs fans had no animosity, then you have the Matthews draft, and you’ve got this combination of Finnish fans and general Leaf haters pushing the Laine>Matthews narrative... so then you have Leafs fans arguing against that, and in that way, knocking Laine, which brings the Jets fans into this fake rivalry. I think most Jets fans couldn’t care less, but you have this group here that feels slighted, and can’t let it go.

 

[nobody]

Totally agree, last season with the Calder it sort of made sense but this season and going forward it makes none. I still think part of the problem is that fans of neither team goad each side on.

The only way we should be rivals is if we both end up in the finals.

The only thing that comes to mind as a reason is the ex-Leafs fans who switched over to the Jets when they got a team. They resent the Leafs because they had to endure all the shitty years and now that the team was finally turning it around, the Jets team wasn't doing so hot. This year though, both teams have done equally well so there really should be no bickering.

And this isn't just a Laine vs Matthews thing. We've also had Nylander vs Ehlers, Trouba vs Rielly, Ehlers vs Marner + Nylander etc. I just don't understand the insecurity. If it was Habs/ Bruins/ Sens, etc. I would somewhat get it, but Winnipeg just seem so random.

 

[Coach]

Jets would take Matthews over Laine easily.

Not sure the Jets could afford 11 million a year for a 2nd Centre. I doubt they can afford to keep Statsny and he is much less than 11 million a year.

 

[snowkiddin]

The only thing that comes to mind as a reason is the ex-Leafs fans who switched over to the Jets when they got a team. They resent the Leafs because they had to endure all the ****ty years and now that the team was finally turning it around, the Jets team wasn't doing so hot. This year though, both teams have done equally well so there really should be no bickering.

And this isn't just a Laine vs Matthews thing. We've also had Nylander vs Ehlers, Trouba vs Rielly, Ehlers vs Marner + Nylander etc. I just don't understand the insecurity. If it was Habs/ Bruins/ Sens, etc. I would somewhat get it, but Winnipeg just seem so random.

I don’t think that’s the reason some Jets dislike the Leafs. Not at all.

 

[nobody]

I don’t think that’s the reason some Jets dislike the Leafs. Not at all.

yea, it doesn't make much sense. I don't know what the reason is. Silly Jets fans.

 

[Coach]

Based on these playoffs, where was Laine last year? On the couch and Matthews scored 4 against the President's trophy winners

Yes Laine fans are just trying to be polite and not bring more attention to Matthews obvious regression from year 1 but thanks for bringing it up.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

Yes Laine fans are just trying to be polite and not bring more attention to Matthews obvious regression from year 1 but thanks for bringing it up.

Ya that over PPG in the reg season was some regression lol

 

[Lovedemfanboys]

It’s funny the way it played out. Jets and Leafs fans had no animosity, then you have the Matthews draft, and you’ve got this combination of Finnish fans and general Leaf haters pushing the Laine>Matthews narrative... so then you have Leafs fans arguing against that, and in that way, knocking Laine, which brings the Jets fans into this fake rivalry. I think most Jets fans couldn’t care less, but you have this group here that feels slighted, and can’t let it go.

I'm not trying to argue that the Finns are innocent but neither are Leafs fan. The whole Matthews v Laine was already dying but then Leafs fan started creating threads like these:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/is-laine-injury-prone.2468045/
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/isnt-boeser-better-than-laine.2428409/
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/is-laine-okay.2426919/
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/have-matthews-mcdavid-separated-from-eichel-laine.2418875/
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/is-laine-a-bust.2416467/

And now I hope that people would stop taking shots at Matthews but posters like that Jericho guy like to stir a pot which just causes more drama.

 

[kelsier]

I knew this thread was going to explode after the lousy game from Laine & Jets.

Nevermind that the OP specifically presented a question of which one of the two has the better playoffs, the talk has mostly been almost everything but the playoffs. Probably because the answer to the question has not been up for debate for a long time now. It doesn't even matter what happens at Thursday for the verdict to flip the other way around. Yet, there's a good chance for the Jets and the Laine fans there's still a lot more to come.

Still I guess when you've been here since the beginning and you read a random Leafs fan stating that Finns & Leafs haters are the source of the hostility towards Matthews or the ones who ignited this debate I cannot help myself not to burst out for a quick laugh. It was The Leafs pr machine (aka the fans) who pushed the Matthews > Laine narrative in a topic dedicate to Patrik Laine (at the prospect section) from day 1 since the 2016 draft lottery order was announced. They didn't only push the Matthews >> Laine (or the world itself) narrative day in day out, but at the same time discredited the Finns, the Jets, but most of all Laine himself who was not supposed to be able to even score goals against NHL level of goalkeepers let alone be able to stand on the skates in the small rink. Of course as everyone is well aware by now, the exact opposite happened to what was preached by dozens of Leafs fans prior to the beginning of season 16-17 and the fans no longer had to stand up for him for petty insults and attacks as Laine did the talking at the ice.

Nevertheless, whenever I see the "victim card" played out it always, always comes from the certain area code and it's seriously hilarious. The debate wasn't ever started by the Finns nor by the Jets and obviously some people still don't have the facts right. Had the Leafs had the decency of not bashing Laine until there was literally over XV separate topics started of the player himself due to consistent trash-talk I doubt we would be here today (must be a HFboards record by the way). The Russia did blame Finland too for starting the war in the WWII so we must make the perfect spacegoats. I do find this debate kind of worn out however but at least you don't hear anyone comparing Laine to Joel Armia at the same age anymore.

 

[glucker]

I'm not trying to argue that the Finns are innocent but neither are Leafs fan. The whole Matthews v Laine was already dying but then Leafs fan started creating threads like these:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/is-laine-injury-prone.2468045/
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/isnt-boeser-better-than-laine.2428409/
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/is-laine-okay.2426919/
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/have-matthews-mcdavid-separated-from-eichel-laine.2418875/
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/is-laine-a-bust.2416467/

And now I hope that people would stop taking shots at Matthews but posters like that Jericho guy like to stir a pot which just causes more drama.

Both sides keep it going, it’s ridiculous to pretend otherwise, I’m just taking about how the whole stupid thing got started.

 

[glucker]

I knew this thread was going to explode after the lousy game from Laine & Jets.

Nevermind that the OP specifically presented a question of which one of the two has the better playoffs, the talk has mostly been almost everything but the playoffs. Probably because the answer to the question has not been up for debate for a long time now. It doesn't even matter what happens at Thursday for the verdict to flip the other way around. Yet, there's a good chance for the Jets and the Laine fans there's still a lot more to come.

Still I guess when you've been here since the beginning and you read a random Leafs fan stating that Finns & Leafs haters are the source of the hostility towards Matthews or the ones who ignited this debate I cannot help myself not to burst out for a quick laugh. It was The Leafs pr machine (aka the fans) who pushed the Matthews > Laine narrative in a topic dedicate to Patrik Laine (at the prospect section) from day 1 since the 2016 draft lottery order was announced. They didn't only push the Matthews >> Laine (or the world itself) narrative day in day out, but at the same time discredited the Finns, the Jets, but most of all Laine himself who was not supposed to be able to even score goals against NHL level of goalkeepers let alone be able to stand on the skates in the small rink. Of course as everyone is well aware by now, the exact opposite happened to what was preached by dozens of Leafs fans prior to the beginning of season 16-17 and the fans no longer had to stand up for him for petty insults and attacks as Laine did the talking at the ice.

Nevertheless, whenever I see the "victim card" played out it always, always comes from the certain area code and it's seriously hilarious. The debate wasn't ever started by the Finns nor by the Jets and obviously some people still don't have the facts right. Had the Leafs had the decency of not bashing Laine until there was literally over XV separate topics started of the player himself due to consistent trash-talk I doubt we would be here today (must be a HFboards record by the way). The Russia did blame Finland too for starting the war in the WWII so we must make the perfect spacegoats. I do find this debate kind of worn out however but at least you don't hear anyone comparing Laine to Joel Armia at the same age anymore.

You need to read OP again. He’s not asking who had the better playoffs, he’s asking if people now have come around to the idea that Laine>Matthews, based on these playoffs... which is stupid.

And don’t act like Finnish fans weren’t driving the Laine>Matthews theme that whole year. Hell, there were a good chunk that we’re arguing Puljarvi was better than him, too. The whole thing goes back before it was obvious the Leafs or Jets would end up with the players they did.

Finish fans started it, Leaf haters and Leafs fans picked it up when it was obvious the Leafs were taking Matthews, and then Jets fans got pulled in.

 

[edd1e]

There is no point in these threads and i dont understand why people keep make them.

Both are great players and its normal that these young guys have up's and down's

Its really immature to start arguing who started it. Both camps are equally to blame

 

[kelsier]

You need to read OP again. He’s not asking who had the better playoffs, he’s asking if people now have come around to the idea that Laine>Matthews, based on these playoffs... which is stupid.

And don’t act like Finnish fans weren’t driving the Laine>Matthews theme that whole year. Hell, there were a good chunk that we’re arguing Puljarvi was better than him, too. The whole thing goes back before it was obvious the Leafs or Jets would end up with the players they did.

Finish fans started it, Leaf haters and Leafs fans picked it up when it was obvious the Leafs were taking Matthews, and then Jets fans got pulled in.

Well sure, he does in fact present the question in terms of who's "on top" based on the performance and whether that changes the view on how they are perceived by the fans and community. the topic is slightly misleading.

As for Finns not rooting, not believing and even publicly stating that Laine would become as the better player from the 2016 draft is not what I said. Since you misinterpreted, I'll reiterate. It was not the Finns who swarmed in with great numbers into the Auston Matthews related topic after the lottery order was announced but exactly the opposite, where the Leafs came in (to topic dedicated to Patrik Laine) and acted all mighty before getting proved false, not by us the fans, but by the player. You originally specifically said that if it wasn't for the Finns and Leafs haters or what not, that none of this would have happened. Oh, it would have happened. Why? Cause people tend to have a long memory. Heck, even I forget a lot of details from there and then, but that's one plate that would not just be wiped clean by a fair handshake. However you also implied that by trying to defend Matthews against accusations made by the Finns (or whatever hate group it is that's against you) you sort of "accidently" might have knocked Laine on the way. For real? Probably the most ridiculous take I've read from the recent while. Thank you for the entertainment.

The fact that you still go on about who ignited the debate proves one of the three a) you weren't there b) you don't really know c) you're outright lying. I'll give you a pass for the "C" for now since you may honestly be clueless.

I know I know, it takes two to tango. So of course ammunition was spent both ways but like I said, neither the Finns nor the Jets can claim the honors nor the credits for firing the first shots. Get your facts straight and we can talk some more. Seriously I would give you guys at least some credit if you were honest and came out clean about all of this instead of blaming others for your doings without taking responsibility.