Playoffs of Laine/Matthews

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Nithoniniel

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The first post of this thread should have been "Comparing two players in an extremely limited sample size doesn't provide a meaningful reason to change your opinion on the topic", after which it should have been closed. That it has instead devolved in 50 pages of bickering just speaks to how ridiculously invested some people are in a topic that really should not matter. Both are quite obviously terrific talents. They are in no way competing with each other about anything.

This whole topic seem to have become a competition among some in who can spend the most time and effort into making themselves look like ridiculous fanboys.
 

93LEAFS

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Nov 7, 2009
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I'm not getting into this debate again that will just continue to go in circles based on small sample sizes. But, the arguing started prior to the Leafs winning the lottery in the previous version of this thread (A bunch of threads got nuked in the update),

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/auston-matthews-vs-patrik-laine-round-ii.2070807/

The 2nd version of Laine vs Matthews was opened on April 28th 2015 which was 2 days prior to the Leafs winning the lottery. I know because I was in the original thread arguing Matthews case (and this wasn't a dedicated Laine thread). For people to act like there isn't blood on both sides and all fanbases involved is ridiculous. If people want to say Leafs fans were downplaying Laine fine (and include me in that group), but in my case, the lottery didn't change my opinion, I stated these things prior to the lottery. The lottery just blew the situation to a whole other level.
 
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glucker

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Well sure, he does in fact present the question in terms of who's "on top" based on the performance and whether that changes the view on how they are perceived by the fans and community. the topic is slightly misleading.

As for Finns not rooting, not believing and even publicly stating that Laine would become as the better player from the 2016 draft is not what I said. Since you misinterpreted, I'll reiterate. It was not the Finns who swarmed in with great numbers into the Auston Matthews related topic after the lottery order was announced but exactly the opposite, where the Leafs came in (to topic dedicated to Patrik Laine) and acted all mighty before getting proved false, not by us the fans, but by the player. You originally specifically said that if it wasn't for the Finns and Leafs haters or what not, that none of this would have happened. Oh, it would have happened. Why? Cause people tend to have a long memory. Heck, even I forget a lot of details from there and then, but that's one plate that would not just be wiped clean by a fair handshake. However you also implied that by trying to defend Matthews against accusations made by the Finns (or whatever hate group it is that's against you) you sort of "accidently" might have knocked Laine on the way. For real? Probably the most ridiculous take I've read from the recent while. Thank you for the entertainment. :D

The fact that you still go on about who ignited the debate proves one of the three a) you weren't there b) you don't really know c) you're outright lying. I'll give you a pass for the "C" for now since you may honestly be clueless.

I know I know, it takes two to tango. So of course ammunition was spent both ways but like I said, neither the Finns nor the Jets can claim the honors nor the credits for firing the first shots. Get your facts straight and we can talk some more. Seriously I would give you guys at least some credit if you were honest and came out clean about all of this instead of blaming others for your doings without taking responsibility.
The amount of effort you’re willing put into denying reality would be impressive if it weren’t so misguided.
 

kelsier

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Aug 17, 2013
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The amount of effort you’re willing put into denying reality would be impressive if it weren’t so misguided.

The fact that you went so speechless after basically throwing a good proportion of the HFboards community under the bus while at that same time denying culpability is more than quite telling, ha.

Once a victim, always a victim, or however that went again? xD
 

glucker

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Aug 22, 2008
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The fact that you went so speechless after basically throwing a good proportion of the HFboards community under the bus while at that same time denying culpability is more than quite telling, ha.

Once a victim, always a victim, or however that went again? xD
There was so much wrong with your post, it wasn’t worth the time correcting.

I stand by my comments, regardless of how much you misinterpret them, willfully or not.
 

kelsier

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Aug 17, 2013
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There was so much wrong with your post, it wasn’t worth the time correcting.

I stand by my comments, regardless of how much you misinterpret them, willfully or not.

Indeed, indeed. So many things wrong that you wouldn't want to go anywhere near the details for that burning sensation you might feel after, explaining all those little things crawling beneath the mud to a much wider audience. I get that, I do. :D

Oh almost forgot. You might want to click some of those links and should you run out of readable content just run "Patrik Laine V-X @ HFBoards" on the Google. Just a little tip before presenting any further accusations to avoid anymore "misunderstandings".
 

glucker

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Indeed, indeed. So many things wrong that you wouldn't want to go anywhere near the details for that burning sensation you might feel after, explaining all those little things crawling beneath the mud to a much wider audience. I get that, I do. :D

Oh almost forgot. You might want to click some of those links and should you run out of readable content just run "Patrik Laine V-X @ HFBoards" on the Google. Just a little tip before presenting any further accusations to avoid anymore "misunderstandings".
You live in a world where a bunch of Finnsh fans didn’t spend that whole year arguing Laine>Matthews. That’s cool.
 

kelsier

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Aug 17, 2013
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You live in a world where a bunch of Finnsh fans didn’t spend that whole year arguing Laine>Matthews. That’s cool.

Priceless. You even remember what day today is? Must be the first time I have to quote myself just to go through what was just discussed:

As for Finns not rooting, not believing and even publicly stating that Laine would become as the better player from the 2016 draft is not what I said. Since you misinterpreted, I'll reiterate. It was not the Finns who swarmed in with great numbers into the Auston Matthews related topic after the lottery order was announced but exactly the opposite, where the Leafs came in (to topic dedicated to Patrik Laine) and acted all mighty before getting proved false, not by us the fans, but by the player.

There, don't bother. Anything else you might miss or need?
 

D Wakaluk

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You live in a world where a bunch of Finnsh fans didn’t spend that whole year arguing Laine>Matthews. That’s cool.

Is this true? How dare they ... that's insulting and borderline criminal!

I think it's safe to say that Toronto fans are the most victimized party here. Everyone else is always bullying and trolling them and it's time to stop. It really is.
 

glucker

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Aug 22, 2008
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Priceless. You even remember what day today is? Must be the first time I have to quote myself just to go through what was just discussed:



There, don't bother. Anything else you might miss or need?
Ok so let’s go through my initial post then... step by step.

1) Finnish fans are pumping up Laine all year, as better than Matthews. We agree here, right?
2)This gets amplified by Leaf haters when it becomes clear that the Leafs are taking Matthews.
3)Leafs fans make the counter arguments, which result in Laine getting attacked
4)Laine becomes a Jet, so the Jets fans get pulled into this “rivalry”... and had any other team had won Laine, the same thing would have happened with that fanbase as well.


Can we agree on these points?
 

The Winter Soldier

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Let's be honest here. If Laine had 2 points in his first 7 playoff games as Matthews just had. This thread would be filled by Leafs fans salivating in here calling him a playoff dud. Now I read the narratives of how he is not scoring goals, but his assists are not being counted now as contributing to the Jets. I can think of 2 key assists that impacted this series already. The beauty on Buff's go ahead goal, and the key first goal by Statsny in game 5.

Laine's playoffs have been fine thus far. He is contributing with 9 pts in 11 games. There is still game 7 to go.
 

glucker

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Let's be honest here. If Laine had 2 points in his first 7 playoff games as Matthews just had. This thread would be filled by Leafs fans salivating in here calling him a playoff dud. Now I read the narratives of how he is not scoring goals, but his assists are not being counted now as contributing to the Jets. I can think of 2 key assists that impacted this series already. The beauty on Buff's go ahead goal, and the key first goal by Statsny in game 5.

Laine's playoffs have been fine thus far. He is contributing with 9 pts in 11 games. There is still game 7 to go.
I know that I wouldn’t, because I think it’s moronic to determine a player’s worth over a tiny sample of games, which is what the intention of this thread is... however there would definitely be others that would definite push that narrative. Every fan base has them. Leafs just have more haters to contend with.

I do think that minimizing point totals is silly, as well. Saying assists don’t count is silly. If they didn’t count, they wouldn’t count them.
 

kelsier

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Aug 17, 2013
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Ok so let’s go through my initial post then... step by step.

1) Finnish fans are pumping up Laine all year, as better than Matthews. We agree here, right?
2)This gets amplified by Leaf haters when it becomes clear that the Leafs are taking Matthews.
3)Leafs fans make the counter arguments, which result in Laine getting attacked
4)Laine becomes a Jet, so the Jets fans get pulled into this “rivalry”... and had any other team had won Laine, the same thing would have happened with that fanbase as well.


Can we agree on these points?

I have nothing whatsoever against honest dialogue, but this was never going to be one. I threw the bone didn't I, yet you didn't bite. Surely you remember the a, b, c - much like in the alphabets. Anyway, that was a display of intellectual dishonesty and when someone starts fabricating the past and refuses to acknowledge when caught, it's simply not worth the time. I only dropped by to correct the original statement and that will do for me.
 

The Winter Soldier

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Apr 4, 2011
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I know that I wouldn’t, because I think it’s moronic to determine a player’s worth over a tiny sample of games, which is what the intention of this thread is... however there would definitely be others that would definite push that narrative. Every fan base has them. Leafs just have more haters to contend with.

I do think that minimizing point totals is silly, as well. Saying assists don’t count is silly. If they didn’t count, they wouldn’t count them.

We discuss performances on the data we have, this is what we go on. We do not wait until a career is over to discuss playoff performances. If this were the case this site would be rather quiet.

This is happening on your own board, Matthews has rightfully been called out for his lacklustre playoffs, and now on his what looks like sulking with an apparent disagreement with his coach on his usage. These are things worth noting.

Note, many Leafs fans were busy in Eichel threads when he had a falling out with his coach when he was replaced. So I find the nothing to see here narrative rich now that there may be a possible rift with him and Babcock.
 

glucker

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Aug 22, 2008
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I have nothing whatsoever against honest dialogue, but this was never going to be one. I threw the bone didn't I, yet you didn't bite. Surely you remember the a, b, c - much like in the alphabets. Anyway, that was a display of intellectual dishonesty and when someone starts fabricating the past and refuses to acknowledge when caught, it's simply not worth the time. I only dropped by to correct the original statement and that will do for me.
Lol
 

leaffaninvancouver

formerly in Victoria
Jan 11, 2012
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Let's be honest here. If Laine had 2 points in his first 7 playoff games as Matthews just had. This thread would be filled by Leafs fans salivating in here calling him a playoff dud. Now I read the narratives of how he is not scoring goals, but his assists are not being counted now as contributing to the Jets. I can think of 2 key assists that impacted this series already. The beauty on Buff's go ahead goal, and the key first goal by Statsny in game 5.

Laine's playoffs have been fine thus far. He is contributing with 9 pts in 11 games. There is still game 7 to go.

No it really wouldn't, for the most part Leaf fans don't care about Laine. They aren't rivals. The Leafs and Jets aren't rivals either. Would you get a dumb post or two? Probably the Leafs have a large fan base and that leads to it's share share of button pushers like anywhere else.

Do you seriously think this thread would be 60 pages if their positions were reversed? I think we both know the answer is no.
 

The Winter Soldier

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Apr 4, 2011
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No it really wouldn't, for the most part Leaf fans don't care about Laine. They aren't rivals. The Leafs and Jets aren't rivals either. Would you get a dumb post or two? Probably the Leafs have a large fan base and that leads to it's share share of button pushers like anywhere else.

Do you seriously think this thread would be 60 pages if their positions were reversed? I think we both know the answer is no.

I find the bolded hard to believe. Infact I find it even harder to believe that someone would actually write this and try to pass this off as the truth.

What we do know about Laine is he has 9 pts in 11 playoff games, he doesn't have an attitude problem in Winnipeg, he is playing in the 2nd rd, with a big game to come on Thurs to move potentially into the 3rd rd, and apparently he has no rifts with Maurice despite only 16 mins of usage in the regular season. He just plays and produces on winning teams through Liiga and now the NHL.
 

glucker

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Aug 22, 2008
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We discuss performances on the data we have, this is what we go on. We do not wait until a career is over to discuss playoff performances. If this were the case this site would be rather quiet.

This is happening on your own board, Matthews has rightfully been called out for his lacklustre playoffs, and now on his what looks like sulking with an apparent disagreement with his coach on his usage. These are things worth noting.

Note, many Leafs fans were busy in Eichel threads when he had a falling out with his coach when he was replaced. So I find the nothing to see here narrative rich now that there may be a possible rift with him and Babcock.
1) this thread is basically asking people to ignore the bulk of the data we have, and asks if these playoffs make Laine better.

2) fanbases can have differing opinions. Most fans aren't saying, "well, he was bad in one round, so i guess we need to rebuild. Should have picked Laine".

3) What evidence is there of a rift? Any? Also, was I in those Eichel threads?
 

glucker

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Aug 22, 2008
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No it really wouldn't, for the most part Leaf fans don't care about Laine. They aren't rivals. The Leafs and Jets aren't rivals either. Would you get a dumb post or two? Probably the Leafs have a large fan base and that leads to it's share share of button pushers like anywhere else.

Do you seriously think this thread would be 60 pages if their positions were reversed? I think we both know the answer is no.
I think what would happen is the few dummies would draw enough ire from the Leaf haters that it would wind up going just as long.
 

glucker

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Aug 22, 2008
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Why is Babcock in Arizona? Seriously if you are going to ask this. Then ask Friedman and Kyper this, not me.
Had booked a family trip a while back.

I think taking time out of a family trip to meet with Matthews could just as easily be seen as a sign of a good relationship, rather than a rift.
 

leaffaninvancouver

formerly in Victoria
Jan 11, 2012
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I find the bolded hard to believe. Infact I find it even harder to believe that someone would actually write this and try to pass this off as the truth.

What we do know about Laine is he has 9 pts in 11 playoff games, he doesn't have an attitude problem in Winnipeg, he is playing in the 2nd rd, with a big game to come on Thurs to move potentially into the 3rd rd, and apparently he has no rifts with Maurice despite only 16 mins of usage in the regular season. He just plays and produces on winning teams through Liiga and now the NHL.

Why is it hard to believe? We had the first pick, we got the player we wanted. The player we wanted then led the team in his rookie season to the playoffs and won the Calder both things Laine was unable to do. We don't need to discredit Laine (for the most part, again button pushers) because we got everything we wanted.

Stop it with this rift crap, Babcock and Matthews met while he was in Arizona with his family. Babcock will meet Andersen when he's watching the world cup, you want it to be a story but there isn't anything there. Matthews and Babcock have both denied there's a rift as well.
 

leaffaninvancouver

formerly in Victoria
Jan 11, 2012
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I think what would happen is the few dummies would draw enough ire from the Leaf haters that it would wind up going just as long.

I'm not so sure, when Matthews is doing well the button pushers from other teams don't show up. The button pushers are keeping this going more than anything.
 
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