Players that should have Won the Conn Smythe?

[danincanada]

if the three red wings conn smythes had gone fedorov ('97), lidstrom ('98), yzerman ('02), would anyone complain?

I wouldn't complain if it was that way instead. Fedorov should have won in '97 and take your pick in '98 and '02. In my eyes they were all worthy in '98 and '02. Ideally each guy deserved a CS because they were the main driving force behind those teams and what they built it around.

 

[JackSlater]

if the three red wings conn smythes had gone fedorov ('97), lidstrom ('98), yzerman ('02), would anyone complain?

No. It isn't exactly how I would have picked them but at least Fedorov gets the Conn Smythe that he deserved.

 

[The Panther]

I always hated that Hextall got it in 87... had I my druthers it would've gone to Jari Kurri, he was at his peak & had a pretty much flawless playoff performance, including the game & series winner that beat Hextall. He had 15 goals as the playoff leader, including 5 game winners, leading inthat category, as well. He had 5 goals & 9 points against the Flyers (Gretzky had 11, Anderson only had 5.) What other time in history has the leading goal scorer in the playoffs who scores the OT game/Cup winner (his 5th!) after getting 5 goals in the series not win the Smythe? It was just unfathomable, I think it really reflected the strong biases against Kurri that severely underrated what a great player he was.

I get what you're saying and I'm one of the world's biggest Kurri fans, but it's just the way it was on the Oilers in those days. I mean, through three playoff rounds in 1985, Kurri had 18 goals in 13 games and no one was even talking about him as a Conn Smythe candidate....

 

[Admiral Awesome]

Sakic in '01 - he carried the team when Forsberg went down. Roy was unspectacular in the first two rounds

I can't agree with your reasoning here. Roy was actually excellent in the second round vs. L.A. In 5 of those 7 games, he allowed 1 goal or less while Sakic was injured and/or ineffective (1G/1/A in 5 GP). And sure, Sakic took over offensively over the course of the last two rounds, but Roy stopped 337 of 359 shots and posted a .939 s% over that same timeframe, so I can't really agree that Sakic carried the team. Had Joe won the Smythe, I don't think anyone would've batted an eye, but Roy really did deserve it.

 

[jj cale]

in 06 it should have been Chris Pronger, The guy was third in the playoffs in scoring as a d man, (compared to Lidstrom in 2002 who barely cracked the top 10), He was tied for third in plus/minus, second in ice time (the next nearest cane was 7 minutes less). The guy WAS the reason the Oilers made it that far and if it came to the fact they had to give it someone how about a guy who was dominating not someone who was the third best goalie of the four that were used in the finals.

I still cannot understand to this day how Pronger was not a unanimous winner of the smythe that year, he was simply fantastic, Edmonton doesn't even come near accomplishing what they did that year without him. Watching him control the game every shift he was out there was like watching someone conducting an orchestra, he was flat out dominant game in and game out.

His performance that year was as good as I've ever seen a defenseman play in the playoffs. He was the Oilers.

 

[DaveG]

I remember going in to game 7 in 06 thinking that the Smythe was basically Brind'Amours unless Ward stole the show in that game (he did) or the Oilers won in which case it would have been Pronger. And even until that huge save in the 3rd when the game was 2-1, I still thought Brind'Amour was going to win it that year.

Brindy did everything a skater could do for the Canes throughout the playoffs, and basically willed the team to a win in the Buffalo series. He was basically shutting down whatever line he was put up against while still being able to put up clutch goals throughout the playoffs. The only thing I can really think of off the top of my head is that Ward won in large part due to stepping in to the Montreal series and just simply taking over. And he was undoubtedly excellent in that series. But even still, Brind'Amour was absolutely the straw that stirred the drink for the Canes even in that series, in fact the team was looking destined to go down 3-0 until Brindys goal in game 3. It wasn't a floodgates opening moment, but that's the point you could absolutely feel that the tide had turned and that there was no way the Canes were losing that series.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I still cannot understand to this day how Pronger was not a unanimous winner of the smythe that year, he was simply fantastic, Edmonton doesn't even come near accomplishing what they did that year without him. Watching him control the game every shift he was out there was like watching someone conducting an orchestra, he was flat out dominant game in and game out.

His performance that year was as good as I've ever seen a defenseman play in the playoffs. He was the Oilers.

agree totally

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I remember going in to game 7 in 06 thinking that the Smythe was basically Brind'Amours unless Ward stole the show in that game (he did) or the Oilers won in which case it would have been Pronger. And even until that huge save in the 3rd when the game was 2-1, I still thought Brind'Amour was going to win it that year.

Brindy did everything a skater could do for the Canes throughout the playoffs, and basically willed the team to a win in the Buffalo series. He was basically shutting down whatever line he was put up against while still being able to put up clutch goals throughout the playoffs. The only thing I can really think of off the top of my head is that Ward won in large part due to stepping in to the Montreal series and just simply taking over. And he was undoubtedly excellent in that series. But even still, Brind'Amour was absolutely the straw that stirred the drink for the Canes even in that series, in fact the team was looking destined to go down 3-0 until Brindys goal in game 3. It wasn't a floodgates opening moment, but that's the point you could absolutely feel that the tide had turned and that there was no way the Canes were losing that series.

what's ironic is that if buffalo had squeaked out that '06 ECF (and presumably then beaten the oilers), chris drury would have won the smythe no questions asked.

drury was buffalo's brind'amour, but a poor man's version. but that's the advantage of being captain america.

 

[Big Phil]

if the three red wings conn smythes had gone fedorov ('97), lidstrom ('98), yzerman ('02), would anyone complain?

No, not really. But we tend to take away from a fine Cup run from Vernon back in 1997. Not the strongest one you'll ever see, but people act like he wasn't good at all. Yzerman was 1998 for sure. I know Lidstrom and Fedorov both had nice runs but that was screaming Yzerman at the end. 2002 was more of a toss up between Lidstrom and Yzerman. I assumed the latter had it though.

 

[Big Phil]

I still cannot understand to this day how Pronger was not a unanimous winner of the smythe that year, he was simply fantastic, Edmonton doesn't even come near accomplishing what they did that year without him. Watching him control the game every shift he was out there was like watching someone conducting an orchestra, he was flat out dominant game in and game out.

His performance that year was as good as I've ever seen a defenseman play in the playoffs. He was the Oilers.

Probably because going into the final you had the odd analyst think Roloson was every bit as important on their run in 2006. Until he got hurt in the final of course. Pronger had a great run, one of the best I've seen from someone who didn't win, but to win the Smythe on the losing side there has to be a bit of a lull on the other side. Look at 1966, no clear winner for Montreal. Or 1968. 1976 is a bit clearer, Lafleur could have won it, but Leach was quite impressive. The Oilers had candidates in 1987, but not as noticeable as in previous years. Giguere had the Smythe wrapped up after three rounds in 2003 and while Niedermayer and Brodeur had important runs, it wasn't enough.

2006 didn't have this. Ward played great, Staal had 28 points and BrindAmour had a year similar to, say, Goring in 1980. So it wasn't as if there weren't Hurricanes who had Smythe worthy years.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

No, not really. But we tend to take away from a fine Cup run from Vernon back in 1997. Not the strongest one you'll ever see, but people act like he wasn't good at all. Yzerman was 1998 for sure. I know Lidstrom and Fedorov both had nice runs but that was screaming Yzerman at the end. 2002 was more of a toss up between Lidstrom and Yzerman. I assumed the latter had it though.

i always felt like '98 was a three-way race and they gave it to yzerman because when in doubt you give it to the respected veteran captain if he hasn't already won one. similar to crosby over letang and kessel a couple years ago; or niedermayer over giguere, pronger, and pahlsson.

the case for lidstrom, iirc, is that he took on a lot more responsibility to make up for the loss of konstantinov.

 

[Big Phil]

i always felt like '98 was a three-way race and they gave it to yzerman because when in doubt you give it to the respected veteran captain if he hasn't already won one. similar to crosby over letang and kessel a couple years ago; or niedermayer over giguere, pronger, and pahlsson.

the case for lidstrom, iirc, is that he took on a lot more responsibility to make up for the loss of konstantinov.

Or Ovechkin should the Caps win this year? Even if Holtby might be a more obvious choice right now.

 

[jj cale]

Probably because going into the final you had the odd analyst think Roloson was every bit as important on their run in 2006. Until he got hurt in the final of course. Pronger had a great run, one of the best I've seen from someone who didn't win, but to win the Smythe on the losing side there has to be a bit of a lull on the other side. Look at 1966, no clear winner for Montreal. Or 1968. 1976 is a bit clearer, Lafleur could have won it, but Leach was quite impressive. The Oilers had candidates in 1987, but not as noticeable as in previous years. Giguere had the Smythe wrapped up after three rounds in 2003 and while Niedermayer and Brodeur had important runs, it wasn't enough.

2006 didn't have this. Ward played great, Staal had 28 points and BrindAmour had a year similar to, say, Goring in 1980. So it wasn't as if there weren't Hurricanes who had Smythe worthy years.

2006 had Pronger controlling the whole sheet of ice though, he was incredible.

He should have been one of those Leach winner on the losing side Trophy recipients.

He was that good.

 

[quoipourquoi]

i always felt like '98 was a three-way race and they gave it to yzerman because when in doubt you give it to the respected veteran captain if he hasn't already won one. similar to crosby over letang and kessel a couple years ago; or niedermayer over giguere, pronger, and pahlsson.

the case for lidstrom, iirc, is that he took on a lot more responsibility to make up for the loss of konstantinov.

I didn’t see it that way. By several accounts, that’s more like the narrative in 1997 when Yzerman supposedly finished 2nd to Vernon. In 1998, I saw Yzerman as the front-runner (because Kolzig can’t win in a sweep), while in 2002, it might have worked against him that he had already won. Ultimately, both he and Lidstrom were better in 1998 than they were in 2002, and Fedorov was better in 1995 than he was when they started winning.

It’d be cool in retrospect if they all had one each - or if you could at least swap 1998/2002 - but if you don’t know what will happen, Vernon wasn’t out of place in 1997. They didn’t give him a lot of work, but what work they gave him, he did better with it than he should have.

 

[Big Phil]

2006 had Pronger controlling the whole sheet of ice though, he was incredible.

He should have been one of those Leach winner on the losing side Trophy recipients.

He was that good.

I agree, but historically there needs to be no one on the other side (winning side) that stood out. 2006 had Staal, BrindAmour and Ward that all stood out. Leach had 19 goals which still hasn't been surpassed and in 1976 no Hab stood out much either. Hard to say really, but Pronger gets his due. I don't think even Keith had as good of a postseason in 2015.

Alfredsson in 2007 was a good example of someone getting on the losing side because no Duck stood out.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Or Ovechkin should the Caps win this year? Even if Holtby might be a more obvious choice right now.

even before tonight, i would have gone kuz, then holtby, then OV.

and yet, to a man, the postgame panel on cbc/sportsnet had OV as their conn smythe winner. i don't even

 

[quoipourquoi]

even before tonight, i would have gone kuz, then holtby, then OV.

and yet, to a man, the postgame panel on cbc/sportsnet had OV as their conn smythe winner. i don't even

I really hope we’re not entering a post-Williams backlash where voters are looking primarily at major marquee names over the unexpectedly great performances from unsung players. I live for highlights of Ovechkin blocking shots, but it’d be manufactured history if he took it over Kuznetsov as they are now.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

2006 will forever be the "Pronger playoffs" to me. Insane level of play. I never especially "liked" Pronger - I mean he didn't make it easy - but that playoff run alone made him a legend in my mind.

I would actually say that Ward winning the Smythe essentially disgraced the trophy because a panel with such poor judgment cannot be trusted to make these decisions. Ward won it on the back of a narrative that was fairly transparently dumb even then. I have a suspicion that so many people around hockey focused on the Western playoffs that year that when Carolina won hardly anyone really knew anything about the team and their playoff run beyond "oh they crapped the bed early but then Ward came in".

 

[The Panther]

I really hope we’re not entering a post-Williams backlash where voters are looking primarily at major marquee names over the unexpectedly great performances from unsung players. I live for highlights of Ovechkin blocking shots, but it’d be manufactured history if he took it over Kuznetsov as they are now.

I think we are. With the Finals on NBC, I'm sure there's backroom discussion about how to promote the game by 'bigging up' Crosby and Ovechkin on American network TV. Crosby was okay in '16 and pretty good in '17, but it was hardly what I'd call a clear Conn Smythe performance. Ovechkin is inevitably going to win it this year, isn't he (assuming the Caps pull it out)?

Remember those fools on TSN (?) saying that Crosby was their choice of Conn Smythe winner after the third round, regardless of what happened thereafter? I mean, really...

 

[GlitchMarner]

I bet Kuznentsov will win the Smythe if Washington wins the Cup and he's better than Ovechkin during the rest of the SCF until the votes have been finalized.

Kuzy isn't Kessel. He doesn't have that stigma attached.

 

[GlitchMarner]

even before tonight, i would have gone kuz, then holtby, then OV.

and yet, to a man, the postgame panel on cbc/sportsnet had OV as their conn smythe winner. i don't even

I wouldn't say he's been better than Kuznetsov this year, but he's definitely been better than Crosby was in 2016.

The thing is the guy who had a Kuzy-like performance in the playoffs that year was on a team that lost.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i wonder if we’ll get to see him flapping his arms like a giant bird as he skates over to grab the trophy from bettman

 

[GlitchMarner]

i wonder if we’ll get to see him flapping his arms like a giant bird as he skates over to grab the trophy from bettman

We can only hope.

 

[Ishdul]

I think we are. With the Finals on NBC, I'm sure there's backroom discussion about how to promote the game by 'bigging up' Crosby and Ovechkin on American network TV. Crosby was okay in '16 and pretty good in '17, but it was hardly what I'd call a clear Conn Smythe performance. Ovechkin is inevitably going to win it this year, isn't he (assuming the Caps pull it out)?

Remember those fools on TSN (?) saying that Crosby was their choice of Conn Smythe winner after the third round, regardless of what happened thereafter? I mean, really...

They've leaked/revealed the Conn Smythe vote the last 2 years so good chance we'll get to see. Crosby only won the 2016 Conn Smythe by 3 points (63 to 60) so it lines up with it not being a clear Conn Smythe performance. 2017 he won the vote by a pretty big margin. I personally think Crosby was the correct choice both times. I think Kuznetsov is at least getting the kind of discussion and face time that puts him in the conversation. I think the assumption right now is that Ovechkin wins it but if Kuznetsov has another big game I think he has a very real chance.

 

[DannyGallivan]

What about players who should have won the Conn Smythe before there was a Conn Smythe Trophy?

The trophy debuted in 1965 and Beliveau was the first winner. But what about previous years (go back about 20 or so). Naturally, you'd have to be quite the hockey historian to add insight here. I read an article several years ago that actually went back several years before '65 to project who they thought may have won. I'll have to use the Google machine to see if I can find it again. I recall Bob Pulford being chosen during one of the Leafs wins and Pierre Pilote for Chicago in '61.

Edit: okay, I found a link: Retroactive Conn Smythe | Project Gutenberg Self-Publishing - eBooks | Read eBooks online