Players that don't want a vaccine (Mod Warning post#30)

[Pitaya]

Fans are already being allowed into buildings without vaccination proof, and that's not going to change, so not sure what the issue is.

Maybe if you read the entire OP, but that seems to be a challenge for some including yourself, youd know what the problem was

 

[Pitaya]

I can understand why some don't want a brand new vaccine that they believe has been rushed through trials and rushed through the approval process. I personally have gotten vaccinated as I don't feel the same way.

But if this turns into people not being allowed to attend to being forced to sit in "socially distanced" sections, which is already happening some places; there are going to be major lawsuits coming down the pipeline. You know some one will try and make a quick buck off being "segregated due to their beliefs"

Theyd be wasting their time; if nurses cant sue their hospitals for requiring it, what f***ing right does a fan have to bought the ticket knowing they were to be separated?

People should be counter-sued or arrested for making false claims and lawsuits that have no chance of bearing any fruit

 

[Confused Turnip]

Or they play with and spoke to a bunch of people that had Covid and understand it’s just a cold to a young healthy person

More young people are getting hospitalized as a 'stickier,' more infectious coronavirus strain becomes dominant - CNN
Data reveal deadliness of COVID-19, even in young adults
Covid-caused health problems, deaths join football-related injuries - STAT
Think Covid-19 can't harm healthy, young athletes? Think again
College Football’s Worst Fear in the Pandemic: The Death of a Player
How elite athletes have struggled with the long-term effects of Covid
What Covid Means for the Athlete’s Heart

Or, you know, just take a needle. You get them in your ass twice a week anyway, and f*** knows where those were mixed.

 

[sbjnyc]

Vaccinated player: "Want to go?"

Unvaccinated player: "Yeah let's go!"

V: "Wait are you vaccinated?"

U: "Pfft F no"

V: (Skates to bench)

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Maybe if you read the entire OP, but that seems to be a challenge for some including yourself, youd know what the problem was

That was the second post of the thread and very clearly in response to this part of the OP:

With talk of stuff like if fans will need proof of vaccination to enter the building, if players are aloud in the building to play without a vaccine you can't really say a fan without a vaccine can't come in. We can't give a pass to someone because they are a hockey player and have a different set of rules for a fan

 

[Pitaya]

That was the second post of the thread and very clearly in response to this part of the OP:

Hmm a second person struggling with this

so did you miss where the person I quoted said 'so not sure what the problem is' when the exact problem was covered in the paragraph you so happen to leave out?

This isnt that hard to understand

 

[ManofSteel55]

You don't need training or background to question what the future holds if you take it because we don't have that data to say one way or another

It isn't about the data. It's about questioning the legitimacy of things that you have so little knowledge of that you don't know what questions to ask or what stats to look for. Its about saying you won't blindly trust something (which is fair) but then denying anything that is actual evidence because you don't have the capacity to understand it or what it means. Ask the questions. But when someone with expertise gives you an answer, don't deny it because you don't understand or because it doesn't fit with your opinion. That's where most of the population is at.

You don't need training or background to question what the future holds if you take it because we don't have that data to say one way or another

 

[ottawa]

So James Mirtle of the Athletic was a guest on the latest Steve Dangle Podcast and he said he can't believe people aren't talking about the fact that a lot of players will not get the vaccine.

With talk of stuff like if fans will need proof of vaccination to enter the building, if players are aloud in the building to play without a vaccine you can't really say a fan without a vaccine can't come in. We can't give a pass to someone because they are a hockey player and have a different set of rules for a fan. Also how would this work for travel that requires two doses to travel to another country from canada to the Usa? This seems like a very interesting story to follow....

Allowed*

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Hmm a second person struggling with this

so did you miss where the person I quoted said 'so not sure what the problem is'

Which was clearly referring to the part I quoted. Not sure what's hard about this.

 

[Confused Turnip]

And there are dead people from the vaccine

Most countries pulled AZ. The safety data is in now, this is no longer an excuse.

 

[gstommylee]

Well this is why it gets tricky..."my body, my choice"...the NHL as a private league I suppose can impose their own rules but here we go with the politics of it all.

NHL doesn't have authority it make players get it. Everything must be CBA'd including the requirement of getting vaccines.

 

[93gilmour93]

It isn't about the data. It's about questioning the legitimacy of things that you have so little knowledge of that you don't know what questions to ask or what stats to look for. Its about saying you won't blindly trust something (which is fair) but then denying anything that is actual evidence because you don't have the capacity to understand it or what it means. Ask the questions. But when someone with expertise gives you an answer, don't deny it because you don't understand or because it doesn't fit with your opinion. That's where most of the population is at.

Everyone can draw their line in the sand on this issue but at the end of the day even the top doctors in the world can not tell you if side effects emerge down the road because nobody knows. With that being said it's not anti vaccine or anti science but more waiting to see how everything looks down the road because new info comes up all the time with new side effects. Maybe a few years down the road it's proven that it's all good and others who are hesitate get it but till that time we wait for a definite answer

 

[93gilmour93]

Allowed*

Thanks professor. Good catch

 

[supsens]

It isn't about the data. It's about questioning the legitimacy of things that you have so little knowledge of that you don't know what questions to ask or what stats to look for. Its about saying you won't blindly trust something (which is fair) but then denying anything that is actual evidence because you don't have the capacity to understand it or what it means. Ask the questions. But when someone with expertise gives you an answer, don't deny it because you don't understand or because it doesn't fit with your opinion. That's where most of the population is at.

This whole thing has moved back to the dark ages all studies and scientific questions asked are thrown out and people attack everyone and anyone who refuses to conform to a pre determined outcome.
If there is a 0.00002 chance it was not the vaccine then "you can't prove it"
If people don't want to take a risk no matter how small they have that right. A bunch of people with no actual clue yelling "science' does not change this.

 

[Avaholic29]

That makes sense because the flu has never caused a pandemic in your lifetime has it?

it makes sense when responding to someone that’s telling me places have already required proof of vaccine before all of this. Comprehension is important when attempting to be a smart ass.

 

[Bood12]

That’s just paperwork.

Vaccines don’t have side effects “down the road.” If they don’t present in 4-8 weeks it’s not going to happen.

Really? Says who? Sounds like the government officials telling all the workers at the World Trade Center it is safe to clean up there and 10 years later many get cancer, not to mention many Pharmaceutical drugs give you cancer/side effects years later, reality is no one can say it is 100% safe and side effect free

 

[Avaholic29]

More young people are getting hospitalized as a 'stickier,' more infectious coronavirus strain becomes dominant - CNN
Data reveal deadliness of COVID-19, even in young adults
Covid-caused health problems, deaths join football-related injuries - STAT
Think Covid-19 can't harm healthy, young athletes? Think again
College Football’s Worst Fear in the Pandemic: The Death of a Player
How elite athletes have struggled with the long-term effects of Covid
What Covid Means for the Athlete’s Heart

Or, you know, just take a needle. You get them in your ass twice a week anyway, and f*** knows where those were mixed.

Lmao cases are plummeting and you are still loving all the fear porn hey? So sad..

 

[Confused Turnip]

This is the entire issue in a nutshell.

Below is the quote that @MikeGsVengeance provided. I bolded the maximum possible amount that @supsens could have read before starting to write a rebuttal.

VAERS received 2,794 reports of death (0.00167%) among people who got a vaccine. After careful review, doctors have decided that there is no evidence at all that these vaccines contributed to the patient deaths. Nonetheless, the CDC and FDA will continue to investigate every single report of death (and other adverse events) reported to VAERS.
​

There is PLENTY of data confirming the safety and efficacy of the vaccine compared to running around unvaccinated. And there are a ton of people out there who will actively refuse to read (let alone understand or believe) that data if it contradicts their foregone conclusions.

It's important to acknowledge that on a worldwide basis a small number of deaths have been officially attributed to AstraZeneca. But they're insanely rare and you can just get a different vaccine if you're in a risk group, if your country is even still using it (Canada seems to have phased it out, I know many EU countries pulled it outright).

The incidence of VITT is not certain, but it appears to be extremely rare. A recent report in JACC found that cerebral vein thrombosis occurred in 3.6 per million people after the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine and 0.9 per million people after Johnson & Johnson vaccine. For comparison, the rate of cerebral vein thrombosis is estimated at 207 per million in patients hospitalized with COVID-19 and 2.4 per million in the general population. The risk of death and serious outcomes of COVID-19 (including thrombosis) far outweigh the small risk of VITT.​

Vaccine-induced Thrombotic Thrombocytopenia (VITT) and COVID-19 Vaccines: What Cardiovascular Clinicians Need to Know - American College of Cardiology

 

[93gilmour93]

Really? Says who? Sounds like the government officials telling all the workers at the World Trade Center it is safe to clean up there and 10 years later many get cancer, not to mention many Pharmaceutical drugs give you cancer/side effects years later, reality is no one can say it is 100% safe and side effect free

This is a perfect example.....

 

[DrewGl]

NHL doesn't have authority it make players get it. Everything must be CBA'd including the requirement of getting vaccines.

That's kind of what i meant I guess. I'm not sure of the CBA in regards to covid vaccines.

 

[Confused Turnip]

Lmao cases are plummeting and you are still loving all the fear porn hey? So sad..

It's objectively untrue that it's "just a cold" for pro athletes. Fun catch-22 though, if you don't provide proof it's "prove it", if you do it's "lol fear porn". Almost like you'd go to any lengths to avoid accidentally learning something, I'm impressed.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Top doctors and resea

Everyone can draw their line in the sand on this issue but at the end of the day even the top doctors in the world can not tell you if side effects emerge down the road because nobody knows. With that being said it's not anti vaccine or anti science but more waiting to see how everything looks down the road because new info comes up all the time with new side effects. Maybe a few years down the road it's proven that it's all good and others who are hesitate get it but till that time we wait for a definite answer

No offense, but you are an example of the people who don't know what questions to ask.

 

[Avaholic29]

It's objectively untrue that it's "just a cold" for pro athletes. Fun catch-22 though, if you don't provide proof it's "prove it", if you do it's "lol fear porn". Almost like you'd go to any lengths to avoid accidentally learning something, I'm impressed.

Kaapo kakko has diabetes and nothing drastic happened to him. Developing pneumonia can be problematic for a lot of people and not that problematic for a lot of people. You can also get hit by a bus crossing the road. A large amount of people didn’t even know they had covid without a suprise test result. The constant worst case scenarios that are constantly spewed out are worn out.

 

[93gilmour93]

Top doctors and resea


No offense, but you are an example of the people who don't know what questions to ask.

It's not a question it's a statement and it's not wrong because nobody knows for sure about any of this.

Here's a question. Can you tell me for sure their won't be side effects down the road in say 5 years?

 

[Confused Turnip]

Kaapo kakko has diabetes and nothing drastic happened to him. Developing pneumonia can be problematic for a lot of people and not that problematic for a lot of people. You can also get hit by a bus crossing the road. A large amount of people didn’t even know they had covid without a suprise test result. The constant worst case scenarios that are constantly spewed out are worn out.

So to extend your analogy, if someone made a belt which made you immune to one of your other rare events such as being hit by cars, you would argue against it because getting hit by cars is no big deal most of the time, and hardly ever happens, so nobody should make any effort to protect themselves from it? Perhaps Bill Gates put some microchips in the belt buckle? Will the belt even be in fashion next year?