Player Discussion: Martin Jones

[Boy Hedican]

You guys are forgetting something. Never mind his contract - he has his face BLASTED wall to wall, ceiling to ceiling at the South Rink area at Sharks Ice. There's no way we get rid of him now.

 

[hohosaregood]

I honestly think he's had some kind of injury that never healed right, that's the only thing that can explain this level of drop off this fast (plus a spiral of self confidence to boot). That plus the pad changes more than likely was just a confluence of things that led to his complete collapse. Hopefully, if thats true, it's not the end of his career and he can find a way to fix whatever is wrong and rebuild his confidence. Honestly, I feel pretty bad for the guy, he must be really having a hard time with this.

Dell just sucks.

My guess all year was that the groin injuries from last year never healed properly. That's the feeling I get. Just the way he moves in net is so sluggish. He can't make a lateral push to save his life and it's been like that all year.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

My guess all year was that the groin injuries from last year never healed properly. That's the feeling I get. Just the way he moves in net is so sluggish. He can't make a lateral push to save his life and it's been like that all year.

If this was indeed the case then its even worse that DW made no move at the TDL.

 

[Saskatoon]

If this was indeed the case then its even worse that DW made no move at the TDL.

IMHO the worst move was not replacing Dell (hell it was quite apparent early in the year Dell was no longer serviceable). With Jones history of stepping up in the playoffs and that massive contract I don't blame him for giving Jones a shot. Where DW failed in my eyes is that he didn't acquire a servicable backup. A goalie with a league average save percentage would have been plenty.


As far as Jones goes long term you have to hope he can bounce back. Lots of good goalies have had poor years (Price, Holtby, Rinne for examples). Some of his issues like bad angles and improper positioning through screen are definitely coach-able. Who knows where his body and head are at though.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

IMHO the worst move was not replacing Dell (hell it was quite apparent early in the year Dell was no longer serviceable). With Jones history of stepping up in the playoffs and that massive contract I don't blame him for giving Jones a shot. Where DW failed in my eyes is that he didn't acquire a servicable backup. A goalie with a league average save percentage would have been plenty.


As far as Jones goes long term you have to hope he can bounce back. Lots of good goalies have had poor years (Price, Holtby, Rinne for examples). Some of his issues like bad angles and improper positioning through screen are definitely coach-able. Who knows where his body and head are at though.

Well. I agree that Dell has not looked like a league backup this year. And Jones has not looked like a league starter.

You know what is the most surprising part to me? The fact that Korenar and Bibeau who were lighting it up in the AHL got a total of 0 starts this year in the NHL? They were ok with the absence of even mediocrity in our goalies and kept expecting them to turn a leaf through the season. TDL came and went and nothing. As the team was slumping you would think they would atleast give one of Korenar and Bibeau a look. But no.

I just don't get it. You can continue to have faith that Jones turns it around but still like to get an upgrade on Dell if possible in Korenar or Bibeau. But the fact that they still have not tried them is just ...

 

[Saskatoon]

Well. I agree that Dell has not looked like a league backup this year. And Jones has not looked like a league starter.

You know what is the most surprising part to me? The fact that Korenar and Bibeau who were lighting it up in the AHL got a total of 0 starts this year in the NHL? They were ok with the absence of even mediocrity in our goalies and kept expecting them to turn a leaf through the season. TDL came and went and nothing. As the team was slumping you would think they would atleast give one of Korenar and Bibeau a look. But no.

I just don't get it. You can continue to have faith that Jones turns it around but still like to get an upgrade on Dell if possible in Korenar or Bibeau. But the fact that they still have not tried them is just ...

I could be wrong but I think both Bibeau and Korenar had a cold stretch late in the year which made them hesitant to try them out in the big league.

 

[boredatwork]

In the beginning of the year, Bibeau and Korenar did not face many tough shots. The Cuda spent all the time in the o-zone and kept the majority of shots to the outside. When the Cuda stopped playing structured defense, then neither goalies played well. In my opinion, they are both products of the system and need the system to succeed.

 

[hohosaregood]

I could be wrong but I think both Bibeau and Korenar had a cold stretch late in the year which made them hesitant to try them out in the big league.

There was a week where they were getting blown up 8-1 for 5 games in a row. People watching the games were saying that the defense were leaving them out to dry. Getting outshot and what not.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I could be wrong but I think both Bibeau and Korenar had a cold stretch late in the year which made them hesitant to try them out in the big league.

Their numbers were pretty good around the NHL 50 game mark and the organization didn’t give them a chance in the big league. It wasn’t going to matter what either did after that because the team clearly hitched their wagons to the guys they currently have.

 

[WTFetus]

Even after the TDL, they could've tried them out during the final 10 game stretch when we already lost the division.

Should've gone after someone like Howard. Not to replace Jones right away, but to replace Dell so we'd have an adequate goalie backup when Jones predictably sucked.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Even after the TDL, they could've tried them out during the final 10 game stretch when we already lost the division.

Should've gone after someone like Howard. Not to replace Jones right away, but to replace Dell so we'd have an adequate goalie backup when Jones predictably sucked.

This is exactly what I meant.

Not making a move at the TDL AND not giving one of Korenar/Bibeau a shot during the last 10 game stretch when it was obvious Jones/Dell was not instilling confidence was just pure stubbornness. Can you imagine if one of Korenar/Bibeau steal the job from Jones at the start of next season? All the 'what ifs' ...

 

[hohosaregood]

This is exactly what I meant.

Not making a move at the TDL AND not giving one of Korenar/Bibeau a shot during the last 10 game stretch when it was obvious Jones/Dell was not instilling confidence was just pure stubbornness. Can you imagine if one of Korenar/Bibeau steal the job from Jones at the start of next season? All the 'what ifs' ...

Just bringing a 3rd goalie in wouldve at least been enough to settle the debate on if our goaltending or out defensive system is worse.

 

[LeftHeartInSF]

Just bringing a 3rd goalie in wouldve at least been enough to settle the debate on if our goaltending or out defensive system is worse.

Bring in 4

 

[Bleedred]

Dell needs to go next year, if he sucks during preseason. Waive his ass, if he does. I've totally turned against him. His first year was an Alex Stalock fluke. He may wind up being better next year than he was this year, but a goalie like him doesn't have a long NHL shelf life and he'll already be 30 next year.

And if he starts looking like a liability at any point next year, he needs to be waived and you bring up one of the AHL guys. The only answer Dumboer had this year when Dell got in there and couldn't give you a quality start was to just play Jones more and more.

 

[Bleedred]

Just bringing a 3rd goalie in wouldve at least been enough to settle the debate on if our goaltending or out defensive system is worse.

Just watching every other goalie this playoffs, Jones looks worse than anybody else, other than maybe Vasilevskiy and Hellebuyck. I've already counted more stoppable goals on him than any of the other goalies other than Vasilevskiy and it's a tie between the two of them. I've got both down for 6.

I have Hellebuyck down for 5 and he's only allowed 10 goals in total, but his save percentage isn't that bad. He's really failing my eye test though.

I already have Dell down for 2 stoppable goals out of 5 allowed and I didn't even nail him on that third goal (the first he allowed last night), which was pretty borderline. One of the goals in game 2 was poor (forget which one at this point) and that fourth goal through the 5-hole was also bad from last night. He also created that chance by just throwing a dump in back into traffic, which was a bad decision. No wonder none of the skaters knew what was going on.

Dell is too small and leaves too many angles and open net, so I'd assume that even when goals don't look stoppable on him, there's probably some that are, that just hit a bigger goalie because of his size. I was a big Dell supporter, but he needs to be sent packing down the hallway if he sucks at any point next year.

And don't wait until February/March (trade deadline) to do it, like Stalock that year. The leash on Dell needs to be ridiculously short for next year and it needs to be short for Jones if the other guy comes up and starts outplaying him. f*** the notion that he's the starter and he gets paid this or that.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Just watching every other goalie this playoffs, Jones looks worse than anybody else, other than maybe Vasilevskiy and Hellebuyck. I've already counted more stoppable goals on him than any of the other goalies other than Vasilevskiy and it's a tie between the two of them. I've got both down for 6.

I have Hellebuyck down for 5 and he's only allowed 10 goals in total, but his save percentage isn't that bad. He's really failing my eye test though.

Vasilevskiy and Hellebuyck had their bad moments. They also made several giant, timely, important saves. They made several "unsaveable" saves. They constantly gave their team a chance to win every night.

 

[Bleedred]

Vasilevskiy and Hellebuyck had their bad moments. They also made several giant, timely, important saves. They made several "unsaveable" saves. They constantly gave their team a chance to win every night.

I don't agree on Vasilesvskiy, at least not for the first 2 games.

He was good in game 3 and was okay last night. That Seth Jones goal was bad last night. I'm glad at least Pierre made the comment that it had odor on it, but he looked as bad as Jones has the last 3 games in the first 2 games of his series.

 

[sharski]

Contract is untradable

Dell had his shot and mostly bombed

Imo only option for next year is to fire Hedburg, bring in a head coach that can actually coach defense, bring in a cheap backup option whose ceiling is league average with the prospects as plan C

 

[STL Shark]

Contract is untradable

Dell had his shot and mostly bombed

Imo only option for next year is to fire Hedburg, bring in a head coach that can actually coach defense, bring in a cheap backup option whose ceiling is league average with the prospects as plan C

Is there any way that Boughner is not back on the staff next year? Need an upgrade from Hedberg as well, but with Zettler being just an absolutely horrid hire from the start along with his demotion from bench to video, I see zero way that PDB does not rehire Boughner to bring structure back to the defense (where Spott has been an absolute disaster). If PDB is sticking around (sadly he is), I would argue that no one on the current staff should be brought back next year.

 

[Lebanezer]

 

[Bleedred]

Is there any way that Boughner is not back on the staff next year? Need an upgrade from Hedberg as well, but with Zettler being just an absolutely horrid hire from the start along with his demotion from bench to video, I see zero way that PDB does not rehire Boughner to bring structure back to the defense (where Spott has been an absolute disaster). If PDB is sticking around (sadly he is), I would argue that no one on the current staff should be brought back next year.

I don't see any reason not to hire Boughner if DeBoer is back next year. Unless Boughner can get a head coaching job in the AHL. I don't think he's getting an NHL head coaching job this offseason and probably won't for a while.

I do think Dave Barr is a pretty good assistant, but Zettler is clearly a pity hiring or some buddy system hire because he had no job and Doug Wilson loves him. I can't say he's definitely good or bad, but he's most likely worthless.

Spott has always been worthless and is only here because he's DeBoer's real life best friend.

 

[one2gamble]

Oh look, a goalie

 

[Nighthock]

Hm, Korenar 6'1" ... thought he was taller for some reason.

On a side note, Jones is #2 on the contract buyout list on capfriendly behind only Alzner.

 

[Bleedred]

I know It's the Jones thread, but just because we've brought up Dell already, I just now thought of this and I can't believe it took me this long to think of this comparison.

Aaron Dell reminds me more of Andrew Hammond than I ever realized. And not so much their play style or size, but just their run and streak of dominance, before their plunges and they were both the same age when they broke into the league. Both were 27 years old. Dell has played 18 more regular season games than Hammond did in the NHL, but I'd bet they had a fairly similar career save percentage after each had played 56 games in the NHL. 56 games for Dell in the NHL was game 7 of this season, where he had a .928% save percentage on the season and just came off of back to back shutouts.

Just ran the numbers and Dell after 56 games into his NHL regular season career had a .921% save percentage. Hammond had a .923%. Hammond's first year was even better than Dell's, but his second year was an identical .914% to Dell's second year. Hammond didn't get a third full year after 6 really poor games of .837% in 16-17. I'm pretty sure Dell is similar to Hammond.

 

[hohosaregood]

FtF article w/ interview with a guy from InGoal, the goalie magazine.

Greg Balloch on why Sharks should start Dell

Basically corroborates my feelings that a lot of Jones' problems are physical limitations but does point to the fact that our defensive system does not mitigate those physical failings. He does suggest that goalie coaching might be a factor alongside with Jones' own development path and there may be a chance of Jones recovering his game in the future.