GWT: PL Matchweek (mostly) 35

Discussion in 'Soccer' started by Savant, Apr 19, 2019.

  1. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Lol, Pogba not a leader... Guy should at least try to know about him before talking about him.
    I see the standard of pundits in England is no better than the Dugarrys and Leboeufs in France.
     
  2. YNWA14

    YNWA14 Onbreekbaar

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    Well, I believe they're saying that he doesn't lead (or isn't) by example. They're not wrong. Anyone can talk a big game or say a rousing speech but if they aren't the ones out there giving 100% on the day those words lose a lot of value.
     
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  3. Wee Baby Seamus

    Wee Baby Seamus Yo, Goober, where's the meat?

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    I'm out of the house and not gonna watch the video on data, but I think it's fair to say (and I'm willing to assume this is NOT what Keane is saying) that Pogba has absolutely been a leader for the national team and has not been one for United.
     
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  4. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Then maybe the problem is with United's toxic environment.
    3 different coaches (let's wait for OGS). Millions spent. Awful results.
    Sure, their choices for coaches was just about as poor as it could be. And their money wasn't wisely spent. But still, when you hear those "pundits", you have to wonder why anyone would want to play on this team.
    You can be on EPL's starting XI, score 13 goals and 9 assists from midfield, you'll get a celebrated United thug tell you you're not good enough/don't show heart/call you a liar, etc... because they want to pimp their own horn.

    That's what Dugarry does all the time. I'm sure young generations who listen to Dugarry think he's a legend. Played for big clubs, WC champ, Zidane buddy. But some of us are old enough to remember how awful he was.
    So when he says like he did recently that a guy like Mitroglou has zero talent and shouldn't be a pro player, some dig out the stats for OM.
    Mitroglou : 0.32 goal per game (full career 0.47).
    Dugarry : 0.19 (full career 0.18)
     
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  5. Live in the Now

    Live in the Now Registered User

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    That's who they should have hired btw.
     
  6. hatterson

    hatterson Registered User

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    I would have liked Blanc personally.
     
  7. S E P H

    S E P H @SEPH_WHL

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    You're being a bit too generous at some rankings here...

    Martial at some points of the season was an "F" but more due to never getting to play than him lacking talent. You're right that he was a solid buy. Depay is a freakin' "F" and will always remain an "F" until he shows he can play for a big team. Blind is a "C", he's a one dozen type of player you can find in almost every league. Shaw wouldn't be an "A" because his injury history is real, he would be a "B-" to "B" since he has been able to actual play this season consistently. Schneiderlin is a "D-". Schweinsteiger was already far passed his prime and why Bayern allowed him to walk, another "D-" for me.

    Everything else, hard to argue.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
  8. Live in the Now

    Live in the Now Registered User

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    Either/or. I think Nuno's record with some extremely average players speaks for itself though. One of our castoffs who was nowhere near good enough to play in the top flight becoming their captain and a very good player is a reflection of very great coaching.
     
  9. The Abusement Park

    The Abusement Park Registered User

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    Yeah I’d agree with basically all of this. LVG definitely isn’t the most likeable character but he’s definitely a brilliant footballing mind and while I think with more time he would’ve been successful as a manager at Utd I don’t think they fired him at a bad time either.

    Like I said, I think he did a really good job of figuring out who was dead weight and getting rid of players that weren’t good enough. I really think that if Utd had a competent board and scouts that a good squad would’ve been built from what he left.

    But obviously that isn’t the case and the **** show seems to continue on.
     
  10. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Depay a B? He got sold for a loss and sucked with United. How can that be a B?
    Blind was no more than a depth player for United. A?
    Herrera was a much better purchase. At least B for me.
    Schweini was every bit as bad the signing as everyone thought he would be. F.
     
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  11. YNWA14

    YNWA14 Onbreekbaar

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    When did he say he's not good enough? Pretty much everyone has always said he's extremely talented. His inconsistency and lack of effort on the field are what is being criticized. Some people think he sulks, some think its his agent in his ear, etc. but it's pretty concerning if your form goes to **** just because you want to move away, or things aren't going your way. They're talking about leading by example and you can say Keane was a thug but he didn't take games off to sulk or just walk around on the field while the team was being overran. Again, part of being a leader is inspiring on the field not just talking about it -- you can talk about United being a toxic environment but he chose to go there and he has to take responsibility (also part of being a leader) for this team. Otherwise he's just a mercenary, which is fine, but from what I've seen most mercenaries don't typically reach the heights their talents could take them to.
     
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  12. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    You think United's season went Pogba's way?
    Yet he's in the best XI and has 13+9 to show for it.
    Maybe some people need to use glasses then? Pogba does lead by example. A lot I'd say given the absolute suckiness of the rest of the team (save some Rashford moments, which were mostly after a Pogba pass). He's there and he produces. Even when his previous coach was sending him under the bus, he answered on the pitch.
    If that's not leading by example...

    Pogba moving back to United was stupid. I said it at the time and it's even more obvious today. Don't think that makes him a mercenary though since he wanted to prove his worth to United.
     
  13. Il Mediano

    Il Mediano Registered User

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    I'm so close to going on a huge Pogba rant, but I'll save you all the time.

    This is becoming beyond nonsensical. I hope he leaves.
     
  14. les Habs

    les Habs Registered User

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    @Ajacied that Herrera rating/take is WAY off the mark. Nothing about is right.
     
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  15. Panteras

    Panteras perennial loser

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    Pogba can be both a leader and a superstar, but the key word here is inconsistency. Both sides of the argument have valid points. Sometimes he's both, sometimes he isn't.

    The truth is this United team does not have a true leader on the field.
     
  16. Havre

    Havre Registered User

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    I am humble enough to know I don´t know how a Generation Z football player might look at Pogba, but for those of us that are slightly older he is in my opinion not a leader in any sense of the word. To me he is the opposite of a leader and seems to play his best football when he is not asked to be one either (Juventus and France).
     
  17. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    You're wrong.
    When you have time, watch this.
     
  18. bluesfan94

    bluesfan94 #PetroforNorris

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    If we’re only using international football, you’ll be the first to admit Depay is a consistent world beater, right?
     
  19. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    I know you're trying to hang on a rope, but frankly, it's beyond ridiculous.
    Pogba has a long history with France, is a true leader AND he produces.
    The comparison with Depay is frankly so far fetched you can't reach those heights.

    Depay has a whopping 13 career NT goals (2 pens). World beater???? :laugh:

    EDIT : And Pogba at Juve? And Pogba THIS year with United (13+9, EPL XI)? To compare with Depay, REALLY?
     
  20. Havre

    Havre Registered User

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    I´m perfectly fine being wrong if that is the case.

    I usually don´t find Keane that interesting as a pundit. Being angry and disappointed with everything all the time gets a bit old after awhile, but his look after that last Pogba interview is about the same I always get listening to him.

    Maybe he is different speaking French with his teammates? Could very well be. Could also be he is more of a proper leader in the dressing room than what he is on the pitch and in post game interviews (which is what I know about Pogba).

    He doesn´t have to be a leader though - to be an excellent player. At least not off the pitch. Modric was not a leader in the old school Tony Adams kind of way playing for Spurs, but he was the kind of leader I wish Pogba had been for Utd (if I was supporting Utd). Never shying away from responsibility on the pitch. Never a split second any sort of body language signalling laziness or disappointment with team mates etc. If you did a mistake you could feel Modric making that extra effort to try to rectify that mistake. Dier is similar in that respect (as an example of a leader - Dier not being nearly the same quality as Pogba or Modric of course). I don´t get any of that from Pogba playing for Utd. Maybe a bit more for France.
     
  21. Venkman

    Venkman Registered User

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    Blind was only a depth player in Mourinho's 2nd season*.

    1st season: 29 starts (3rd most). Mostly DM + some LB.
    2nd: 55 starts (most). CB
    3rd: 35 starts (joint 7th). Mix of LB + CB.
    4th: 14 starts*. Mix of all.

    B or C would be more accurate for Blind at United though. Herrera probably a B. Rojo and Schwein too high as well.
     
  22. Evilo

    Evilo Registered User

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    Fair enough.
    If you get the chance to see the 2 hour film though, do it. Lloris is also someone very soft spoken, he almost didn't talk in any lockeroom moment, but boy could you hear him at halftime of the final.
     
  23. Panteras

    Panteras perennial loser

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    there's a video of him giving a talk at the WC and all the sudden dude's John Tortorella and Roy Kean mixed into one lol
     
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  24. bluesfan94

    bluesfan94 #PetroforNorris

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    We’re not talking about Pogba’s ability, we’re talking about his leadership. You’re postulating that he’s a leader with ManU because he gave a locker room speech with the French team.

    That’s silly.

    From all accounts, Depay has been consistently fantastic with the Dutch team over the last year or so. That doesn’t make him so on his club team
     
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  25. YNWA14

    YNWA14 Onbreekbaar

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    TBF Memphis has a pretty excellent record with Lyon as well, all things considered. That team in general just seems toxic...or maybe that's an excuse that doesn't apply to Memphis IDK.

    Just to be clear...across Europe and L1 he's got 35 goals and 35 assists for Lyon (not including penalties won) in 79 starts. This season his production is a bit lower than his rate was going, but he's top 5 in Europe for chance creation despite the team state and his off field issues. For the Netherlands he's been an absolute beast. I think whatever team gets him this summer is going to be pretty happy, especially since he is just coming into his prime.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019

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