GWT: PL Matchweek (mostly) 35

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I dunno this wasn't the narrative earlier when I first pointed out that this team just isn't as talented as people gave it credit for (it was all Mourinho's fault). I remember a lot of 'I told you so' type posts when they were on their little winning streak.

Glad to see everyone is on the same page now.

Not from me. I don’t rate any of their players except for DDG and Pogba(old Bailley) even the young guys up front I don’t particularly think are all that impressive. I hear Rashford this and that but I don’t see anything special.

 

[Jussi]

Ok, Keane ate Fred alive there.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Not from me. I don’t rate any of their players except for DDG and Pogba(old Bailley) even the young guys up front I don’t particularly think are all that impressive. I hear Rashford this and that but I don’t see anything special.

I would've sold high on him last summer. He's too inconsistent to be a top player. He has a good 4 or 5 game run of form and then he's shite for the next 15 to 20.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

To think Martial went for 80 million is as of now a tragedy really. You can spend a quarter of that and get a better player if you have anything resembling a scouting staff.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Not from me. I don’t rate any of their players except for DDG and Pogba(old Bailley) even the young guys up front I don’t particularly think are all that impressive. I hear Rashford this and that but I don’t see anything special.

I think Rashford is a good player with some potential, but he gets hyped way more than he should. He’s nowhere near Mbappe, Dembele and the other guys he gets compared to.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I think Rashford is a good player with some potential, but he gets hyped way more than he should. He’s nowhere near Mbappe, Dembele and the other guys he gets compared to.

There’s Mbappe and then everyone else. It’s really comparing Messi to ADM. (should Martial even get in ADM’s level) in any case Manu would’ve been better served in spending 80 million on an entirely new scouting staff tbh

 

[Il Mediano]

He’s nowhere near Mbappe, Dembele and the other guys he gets compared to.

Yeah, I didn't even realize people compared Rash to those guys. That should definitely stop.

I'm a huge Rashford guy, but he has a long way to go yet.

 

[Burner Account]

Burnley pls

 

[The Abusement Park]

There’s Mbappe and then everyone else. It’s really comparing Messi to ADM. (should Martial even get in ADM’s level) in any case Manu would’ve been better served in spending 80 million on an entirely new scouting staff tbh

Can’t argue that. Getting a DOF should help immensely so that Woodward won’t be part of the scouting at all.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Yeah, I didn't even realize people compared Rash to those guys. That should definitely stop.

I'm a huge Rashford guy, but he has a long way to go yet.

Not on here. But elsewhere fans think he has the potential to get him to the pinnacle of players and he just doesn’t have that level in him. But he can definitely become a very good player, he just won’t be elite most likely.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Can’t argue that. Getting a DOF should help immensely so that Woodward won’t be part of the scouting at all.

If your wondering why half way through I switched from talking about Rashford to Martial I’m also wondering this lol. I thought I read Martial being compared to the others since they all French.

 

[The Abusement Park]

If your wondering why half way through I switched from talking about Rashford to Martial I’m also wondering this lol. I thought I read Martial being compared to the others since they all French.

I figured that was the case

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I figured that was the case

You’re bud D2M is running on 3 hrs of sleep.

 

[Il Mediano]

Not on here. But elsewhere fans think he has the potential to get him to the pinnacle of players and he just doesn’t have that level in him. But he can definitely become a very good player, he just won’t be elite most likely.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

We'll find out. He's only 21 and has an outstanding work ethic. I think he's got bags of potential, but he's never been in a particularly great environment to develop so far.

We'll likely have a much better gauge as to how his career will play out by the end of next season. Next year is huge for him developmentally.

 

[hatterson]

I would've sold high on him last summer. He's too inconsistent to be a top player. He has a good 4 or 5 game run of form and then he's ****e for the next 15 to 20.

He's still got 6 goals and 9 assists from the midfield plus 7 pens (at about an average pen conversion rate) He's drawn at least one pen and his passes have set up at least one more pen (from memory, may be more)

Only Sane, Eriksen, and Sterling have more assists than him over the last 2 years and he plays on a team dramatically worse offensively than Sane and Sterling.

 

[Havre]

Oh no I missed the Keane Pogba discussion. I’ll probably take Pogba’s Instagram, but for the rest Keane.

Arguably the most underrated passer of all times. Keane that is. Add that to everything else he did and you got a pretty special football player.

Still a lunatic of course, but that is a different discussion.

How Spursy was that from Arsenal btw?

 

[Chimaera]

To be fair, from what I saw on a grainy feed at a beer release, I didn’t think they gave away the plot first half. Sure, defense was bad, and some of the players (Fred, that fat left wing back, Young) were a bit short of the game, but I thought they had an idea of what to do and Rashford could’ve had a chance at Kompany who is slow.

But second half. Yeesh

 

[Burner Account]

That fat left wing back

 

[les Habs]

I do think Jose had to go. But to act like it was just him, and not the flawed squad was part of the issue I had to begin with. Part of whether or not Ole's going to do well is related to his squad problems, and probably more so who they actually hire for his DoF position. I just don't think that Ole is the guy with much in his CV to show that he can manage that type of club. I don't think a stint at Molde, a failed one at Cardiff really prepares a guy to run a club that massive. In my mind, he came in, was a breath of fresh air for what was a stale lockerroom that hated Jose, and that got him his initial run. I just don't think he's the guy you want to hook the wagons to without much showing he is ready for a full time of it. For what it stands, three guys with much better track records have failed for United, and at this point, if they don't go out and get a top level football guy picking and recruiting players, it won't matter if they have Ole or some dude off the street setting the lineup.

I concede there's something to showing the squad who is going to be around, but it doesn't look like that's led to any continued effort. They (the squad) didn't get off the bus for the match versus Everton, and at times, it looks like some of the effort issues that plagued much of Jose's time are creeping back into the squad. Did the signing of Ole make the big bump? Could that same bump in players wanting to stay have been created with a new hire of bit more quality?

I don't know exactly who is the better hire. I do think Poch is a better manager than Ole is. He's also shown he can get more out of players, has gone through some transfer window craziness, and might be interested in going to a club with a much bigger budget. If I'm at Spurs, and I'm losing Alderweireld, maybe Eriksen, and not signing a lot, maybe I'm tired of it. Where does he actually go from there with Spurs? He's maxed out in the league (and probably could go down the table), and sure, he's in the CL with a shot at a final, but what then? I also know United would pay him much more. He has the mentality to handle it, and I think he could pull it off there.

It wasn't just Mourinho. It's really never just one person. However it was most definitely largely down to Mourinho.

Solskjaer for me isn't likely a long term option. I don't disagree with that and I agree that he'll need help in the form of a Director of Football when it comes to signings. I saw his interview with Neville over lunch today and he did say that he and the coaching staff are doing a lot of planning for next season as well as long term. That said it doesn't mean that he isn't a good candidate right now, but more on that later. As far as his experience, look at Guardiola's experience before taking over at Barça. Look at Lucho's experience before taking over at Barça. They didn't have much on their respective CVs to show they could manage the club. However what they did have was a lot of experience with the club and they knew the club really well from their experience as players. They knew the club's traditions, the expectations of the players and how the team should play and they knew the expectations of the supporters. That goes a long way and Solsjkaer has brought that thus far.

I don't think a lack of effort is the norm under Solskjaer. I didn't see a lack of effort against Barça. Solskjaer himself has said it was the case against Everton, but the bad performances aren't that many that I think you ignore what came before them and that you say it's settled in. As for any bump, I think bumps happen but if that's what this is it's been a helluva bump. As for a better hire, again, who do they bring in that makes more sense right now?

Pochettino is a better manager than Solskjaer, but I don't take it as a given he'd leave Spurs for United right now. Sure he'd get a pay raise and a bigger budget to work with, but maybe he wants to "finish the job" if you will at Spurs and the progress in this season's CL. Even if he goes out in the Semifinal surely he'll have some money to spend in the Summer and his current squad has a better foundation to build on at the moment (due in part to the questions surround United's squad).

Like I said before, the big issue here for me isn't Solskjaer managing the team. It's the squad situation and ability of the club to keep their best players and make good signings, the former of which doesn't look good (which may be a good thing in a couple of cases) and the latter may be difficult depending on how United finish the season. I think an EL spot would make next season easier in terms of focusing on the league, but the CL money is still important even to the likes of United. Anyway, they'll really have to recruit really well in the Summer because losing Pogba will be a blow and they have multiple positions they can improve on. Still I don't care if they qualify for next season's CL and United spend even 500 million, they won't finish higher than 3rd in the league next season. That would be fine though because you need to have realistic expectations, especially considering United's squad situation and the presence of Guardiola and Klopp with their respective squads, as it will take time. Still in the short term if Solskjaer can get them back in the CL and maybe make an FA Cup run or an EL run as well that would be a job well done.

 

[maclean]

What annoys me about this is that good CB's are always available, but they seemingly always target the wrong player. Laporte was there for the taking but they let their cross town rivals have him. That's true for all of their positions of need really. Bernardo Silva (whom scored the winning goal against them tonight) was there for the taking after Monaco's squad was raided. They let him sign with the cross town rivals. Instead of going for Fabinho, they opted for an old and getting older Matic whom is either injured or looks cooked when he's out there.

But they did snatch Sanchez out of City's grasp!

How Spursy was that from Arsenal btw?

Way more Arsenaly really

 

[Evilo]

To think Martial went for 80 million is as of now a tragedy really. You can spend a quarter of that and get a better player if you have anything resembling a scouting staff.

Yup, told ya at the time.
But to be fair, he's better at striker.

 

[Ajacied]

What a ****show this club is. I know LVG didn’t have a good spell as manager here but I actually thought he did a solid job of getting rid of a lot of dead weight and setting up the next manager well to build a squad to his liking. Unfortunately that next manager was Mou and now we have a new manager with a completely different mindset as Mou. Very frustrating to watch.

Van Gaal is a hard character to like, but he's a masterful tactician. It just takes a while to buy into his game plan, but unlike most coaches, he has a plan and it usually suits the strength of his players best, while also giving the youth a fair shot. He analyzes everything to a T. I think in terms of tactics he rivals Cruijff and Michels as the greatest Dutch coach of all time. He needs time, though. He's not the instant success maker.

I think United got rid him way too easily. He took over when United were in a massive transition period. They finished 7th before he took over; the worst finish in 24 years. Had the guts to get rid of dead weight, such as Hernandez, Welbeck and got rid of van Persie just when he began to falter. Did buy Di Maria, but saw it didn't work out and got rid of him within a year. Most coaches would try to stretch that period for as long as they can and find excuses, trying to save face. Gave Rashford a chance to proof himself.

The other players he brought in:

• Anthony Martial for 50M - B
  A bit overpriced and the price has become even higher with bonuses. Shows flashes of brilliance at times, just not consistent.
• Memphis Depay for 34M - B
  Was a stud for PSV and was among the most sought after youngsters out there. Depay just didn't grow up and still hasn't, to be honest. Hard to blame van Gaal here.
• Daley Blind for 17M - A
  Cheap price. Blind was always solid, though did not always play at his primary position. Has blossomed into a stellar CB since his department.
  
• Luke Shaw for 34M - A
  Just unlucky with injuries. Career took a hit then, but is still a very good LB.
• Ander Herrera for 36M - D
  Overpriced. I think United need better if they want to finish higher than 6th.
• Morgan Schneiderlin for 34M - D
  Never quite got that one.
• Marcus Rojo for 20M - C
  Depth defender; a little overpriced for his role, but just played a WC final.
• Matteo Darmian for 18M - D
  Poor buy.
• Bastian Schweinsteiger for 9M - C
  Bastian was still a serviceable player for Bayern before he arrived in Manchester. Seemed like a good veteran presence to have at the time, but he didn't do anything of significance and was let go right after Loui van Gaal left.

Not the greatest track record. Van Gaal had bad luck with Depay and Shaw, and had some misjudgements with others, though nothing Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham didn't experience. Van Gaal is more to blame for not coming up with a strong CB and CAM, though his window wasn't very big. Players also adore him or hate him. Not everyone can cope with him and I think most didn't at United. When you compare this with Mourinho's spell, it's worlds better with Mourinho even spending about 117M more. Though in his defense; Pogba, while overpriced, was exactly what they needed, I thought at the time.

Pogba for 105M (B), Lukaku 85 (D), Fred 59 (E), Matic 45 (E), Mkhitaryan 42 (E), Bailly 38 (C), Lindelöf 35 (C), Alexis 34 (D), Dalot 22 (C), Grant 2 (C).

 

[Havre]

He was/is an old man that was never going to be the long term solution at Utd. If Nuno Santo can get Wolves playing like that in less time than van Gaal at Utd I can see why they didn't want to take it any further. If can Gaal had been younger I could have seen the point - even if that Utd team was ridiculously boring to watch (not that it got much better under Mourinho).

At that age you roll the dice once. If it doesn't work you are out. I really don't see the problem.

And even if this is not always true, and there are some important exceptions (like arguably Ferguson), most managers that end up being successful show promise long before having spent 2 years at a team. Guardiola, Klopp and maybe also Pochettino needed some time to settle in, but they were all on the right trajectory long before their second season at their current clubs ended.

 

[YNWA14]

 

[Chimaera]

That fat left wing back

As a portly fellow myself, he looks the least like an EPL player. He's rounder than Charlie Adam