GWT: PL Matchweek (mostly) 34

[Savant]

You’re the one saying this. You need to provide the evidence.

I did. It’s clearly defined in the rules of sport, specifically to what differentiates a “sport” from a “game”. Just because it doesn’t fit your narrative does not mean that is not the case.

 

[hatterson]

I mean if Man U fans are so outraged by the Glazers it would be good if they were punished the 3 points. It would show that they want change more than the results.

I honestly don't care about the results. It has virtually no relevance to United given that they aren't catching City and their magic number for making the CL is 4 points.

Also if it meant the Glazers were gone I'd be fine with forfeiting every remaining match this season and a 30 point deduction this year.

 

[hatterson]

I did. It’s clearly defined in the rules of sport, specifically to what differentiates a “sport” from a “game”. Just because it doesn’t fit your narrative does not mean that is not the case.

You literally quoted a wikipedia article....

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Neither was in danger. It’s about putting measures in to make sure things don’t repeat. If you don’t want Fanta to throw bottles at a bus, punish them for throwing bottles at a bus. No one would argue about it.

Punish them by not having them attend. Not cancelling games

 

[Halladay]

West Ham and United had something similar at the very last game at Boleyn Ground. It was played on a Wednesday I believe. This game shouldnt be forfeited and it wont be as the tv networks would never allow it.

 

[Savant]

I will freely admit I have done very little research on what occurs if there is a riot outside the stadium that damaged the stadium to the point that it is unsafe to host a game. However given that both teams, and the FA, agreed to a postponement instead of a forfeiture, I'd have to assume a forfeit is not required.

In regards to COVID stuff, how many games did Newcastle forfeit when their covid issues caused schedule nightmares for multiple clubs?

In the history of the PL, how many games have been forfeited?

And we were all calling for forfeit when the Newcastle/Villa stuff happened. Check the receipts.
The rule is that forfeit on table if basic standards are not met. Basic standards were not met and frankly it’s unfair to Liverpool to have to accommodate United in their schedule right now.

I don’t think a forfeit is going to happen and I do think the PR around United and Liverpool is so bad that no one is going to ask for it. But it absolutely should, by the rule happen.

 

[S E P H]

I have no problem with the protest, I don’t even care that they somehow got onto the pitch since the stewards weren’t doing anything themselves. All the fans that broke in, even showed they left after they invaded the pitch to show their respect. However, invading the stands the second time and the clashes with the police after that is the most disrespectful portion of the entire thing. When I took sociology, we had a section about groups and they say that violent protests have statistically shown very limited effect on society in the future compared to peaceful protests (like the March on Washington in the 1960s). I don’t want LFC to make the CL, but United should absolutely forfeit the game as punishment and the trouble these hooligans caused. I don’t want to lead to speculation, but I guarantee that they had inside help from someone that knows the stadium protocols.

 

[Savant]

Punish them by not having them attend. Not cancelling games

You might be onto something f

 

[phisherman]

I honestly don't care about the results. It has virtually no relevance to United given that they aren't catching City and their magic number for making the CL is 4 points.

Also if it meant the Glazers were gone I'd be fine with forfeiting every remaining match this season and a 30 point deduction this year.

Exactly.

It would show they really mean it about getting the Glazers out. I hope they do the same thing on the rescheduled date as well.

 

[hatterson]

And we were all calling for forfeit when the Newcastle/Villa stuff happened. Check the receipts.
The rule is that forfeit on table if basic standards are not met. Basic standards were not met and frankly it’s unfair to Liverpool to have to accommodate United in their schedule right now.

I don’t think a forfeit is going to happen and I do think the PR around United and Liverpool is so bad that no one is going to ask for it. But it absolutely should, by the rule happen.

You keep saying "the rule" when all you did was quote a wikipedia article about the general concept of forfeiture.

 

[S E P H]

Also the Auba goal was simply brilliant, the athletic ability he showcased was unbelievable.

 

[hatterson]

I have no problem with the protest, I don’t even care that they somehow got onto the pitch since the stewards weren’t doing anything themselves. All the fans that broke in, even showed they left after they invaded the pitch to show their respect. However, invading the stands the second time and the clashes with the police after that is the most disrespectful portion of the entire thing. When I took sociology, we had a section about groups and they say that violent protests have statistically shown very limited effect on society in the future compared to peaceful protests (like the March on Washington in the 1960s). I don’t want LFC to make the CL, but United should absolutely forfeit the game as punishment and the trouble these hooligans caused. I don’t want to lead to speculation, but I guarantee that they had inside help from someone that knows the stadium protocols.

They broke down a gate to get in and then smashed cameras and camera equipment. That's not showing respect.

Then "I don't want to lead to speculation, but let me blindly speculate about something"

 

[Savant]

You keep saying "the rule" when all you did was quote a wikipedia article about the general concept of forfeiture.

It’s the definition of “sport” vs “game” it doesn’t matter if it’s for Wikipedia or not

 

[hatterson]

It’s the definition of “sport” vs “game” it doesn’t matter if it’s for Wikipedia or not

The intro section of a wikipedia article is fundamentally not a "rule" for anything

 

[S E P H]

They broke down a gate to get in and then smashed cameras and camera equipment. That's not showing respect.

Then "I don't want to lead to speculation, but let me blindly speculate about something"

I had to leave, so I didn’t see what happened after that. I just saw they invaded the pitch, had a good time, left, then invaded a second time, and needed to have crowd/riot control to get them out of the area.

 

[Jack Straw]

Dele looking rather "Captain Jack Sparrow-ish" with the dreds.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

When I took sociology, we had a section about groups and they say that violent protests have statistically shown very limited effect on society in the future compared to peaceful protests (like the March on Washington in the 1960s).

As a historian, I will just say that this is why sociology is a far more limited discipline than history

 

[Evilo]

Liverpool fans complaining about the fact United did what their fans should have done and asking for a forfeit.

Fun times.

 

[Savant]

The intro section of a wikipedia article is fundamentally not a "rule" for anything

I mean you are the rule master so you much be right.

do some supplemental reading.

but anyway, why should Liverpool have to reschedule a game that they don’t have room for when they had nothing to do with it being postponed? Especially if it disadvantages them?

 

[Savant]

Liverpool fans complaining about the fact United did what their fans should have done and asking for a forfeit.

Fun times.

Liverpool fans could easily do this next week. It would be surprising. Surprised (?) that United fans didn’t do it against Roma midweek when it would have been more impactful.

 

[Live in the Now]

I mean if Man U fans are so outraged by the Glazers it would be good if they were punished the 3 points. It would show that they want change more than the results.

This is actually probably a good point and they will probably do it again repeatedly until they achieve that.

 

[hatterson]

And we were all calling for forfeit when the Newcastle/Villa stuff happened. Check the receipts.

I actually just did a search for "forfeit" on this subforum. The only mentions of it are around the City situation saying that *if* their cases were related to a breach of protocol by City they should forfeit their cup and league games and a joke that Wolves might have to forfeit the season if Portugal had a bunch of positives after Ronaldo was positive.

 

[Evilo]

Not that I agree it should be a forfeit, but it has happened before in Europe.

English clubs got a lenghty european suspension for it in fact.

 

[Savant]

I actually just did a search for "forfeit" on this subforum. The only mentions of it are around the City situation saying that *if* their cases were related to a breach of protocol by City they should forfeit their cup and league games and a joke that Wolves might have to forfeit the season if Portugal had a bunch of positives after Ronaldo was positive.

Definitely not what I said at the time but I don’t blame you for limiting your search based on vocabulary

 

[hatterson]

I mean you are the rule master so you much be right.

do some supplemental reading.

but anyway, why should Liverpool have to reschedule a game that they don’t have room for when they had nothing to do with it being postponed? Especially if it disadvantages them?

I'm enough of a rule master to know that the editorialized section of a wikipedia intro is, fundamentally, not a "rule"

They may not actually "have to reschedule" the game. They may have been able to push for a forfeit (I genuinely don't know). However instead they're grownups and see no reason to do that when there are alternatives available.