GWT: PL Matchweek 17

[AB13]

And why would any well run club make someone that inexperienced their interim manager? Nonetheless a club that's truly in crisis. It's just moronic.

A club that has the worst owner in sport, which we sadly do.

 

[AB13]

Buying players doesn't mean there's a plan. Especially when only 1/2 players on that list truly fill a need at your club.

All of them besides Guendouzi will fulfill absolutely key needs as quick as next season. Saliba might be the best CB in Ligue 1 this season, he has been truly astonishing. Saliba really has the potential to become one of the very elite centre backs in world football, he is the future of the position for us, as long as he can stay healthy, because injuries are a concern with him. Martinelli is needed as a hard working, high intensity forward with incredible goalscoring instincts and technique, a talent as special as Martinelli is great to have at any club. Torriera is the first good defensive midfielder we have had in years, Tierney will be a much needed left back upgrade and Pepe can supply natural width and the ability to beat players and create space, something we lacked ever since Sanchez left. Guendouzi is incredibly far off Premier League top 6 starter quality at the moment though, but who knows. He only cost 8 million so it wasn't exactly a massive risk, and his valuation is a lot higher than that today, even though I think he is severely overrated.

 

[The Abusement Park]

All of them besides Guendouzi will fulfill absolutely key needs as quick as next season. Saliba might be the best CB in Ligue 1 this season, he has been truly astonishing. Martinelli is definately needed as a hard working, high intensity forward with incredible goalscoring instincts and technique, Torriera is the first good defensive midfielder we have had in years, Tierney will be a much needed left back upgrade and Pepe can supply natural width and the ability to beat players and create space, something we lacked ever since Sanchez left.

Saliba: Great buy for the future and fills a huge need

Torreira: Is not the first good DM you've had in years because he isn't that great. If he was you guys wouldn't be leaking goals to anyone and everyone. He might be the best one you've had recently but I wouldn't say he is good.

Guendouzi: good purchase at the time but being that young he shouldn't have been thrown into the fire like he has. Also is he promising or not you flip flop on him everyday.

Martinelli & Pepe: Good players but you don't need anymore forwards. Focus on the damn defense and actually getting a midfielder that isn't hot garbage.

Tierney: could be good but haven't seen enough of him.

 

[bluesfan94]

That there are people who still think this is wild. Arsenal scores and prevents goals at the rate of a mid-table team. They're 12th in xG. The team unit is incapable of creating good chances at the level required for a top team. They are 11th in xGA. Nobody on the team is capable of defending at the rate of a top team.

Is that a question of talent or of coaching, however? There are plenty of players who have looked much better in the same role in different systems. Actually, basically the core of the team. I think Sokratis and Luiz are past it, so that doesn't help anything, but we also don't play a system that mitigates our weaknesses. Not that Wenger was necessarily better about that - we had Per Mertesacker playing a high line at times. I think, given the flaws of all of the sides this year but for Liverpool, Arsenal, with a proper system, could have pulled out top 4.

Martinelli & Pepe: Good players but you don't need anymore forwards. Focus on the damn defense and actually getting a midfielder that isn't hot garbage.

Martinelli was cheap enough that it doesn't matter.

 

[hatterson]

Saliba might be the best CB in Ligue 1 this season, he has been truly astonishing. Saliba really has the potential to become one of the very elite centre backs in world football, he is the future of the position for us, as long as he can stay healthy, because injuries are a concern with him.

He's got potential, but assuming he's your future isn't a great idea. He's started a grand total of 19 senior games in his life.

Martinelli is needed as a hard working, high intensity forward with incredible goalscoring instincts and technique, a talent as special as Martinelli is great to have at any club.

Again, a young player with potential. He's done well against mediocre talent in the Europa league and alright against PL talent, but virtually all top teams have players of his caliber in their academy. He's a decent up and coming piece, but shouldn't be relied upon as some cornerstone that everything rests on.

Torriera is the first good defensive midfielder we have had in years,

And he's still a player who isn't good enough to be a regular starter for a side that wants to content for anything of meaning.

The rest is already addressed.

 

[S E P H]

Wenger wasn't really responsible for the transfer business at all, it was David Dein ( before 2005) and Stan Kroenke ( after 2005) that are mostly responsible for that, but I agree he was a bit too stubborn at times. Kroenke never ever injected his own money into Arsenal, being the only owner to do so in the entirety of the 4 top divisions of England. As you can see from our "almost signed" list, Wenger wanted tons of players that Kroenke and the stadium move just wouldn't grant him. We have lived completely of our revenue, without any extra injection for years. When Kroenke took over, we where possibly the best club in the world, it is no coincidence he has overseen our entire decline. Kroenke hired Gazidis, and now Sanhelli, to buy marketable players, which is why we always buy attackers, instead of creating a balanced side.

The youth academy problem once again stems from the staff, in this case the youth academy manager, who was recently sacked.

Wenger wrote in his autobiography that he thought he had less and less control the longer he stayed at Arsenal, as we went from a club with 80 staff members to a club with 350, allowing Wenger very limited say in what the club did.

I fully agree that our squad is good enough to win most of our games and finish in the top 4. The real problem now is that we need to undo everything Emery taught the players, from backing off in the press, to not playing with intensity, to the constant sideways passing and inability to play through the middle. The players confidence is shattered as a result of constantly being told they need to adjust to their superior opponent.

What you're doing is piling up all our misery on one bloke, I am not even trying to defend Kroenke, but suggesting that transfers fall back on him is just weird. The bloke knows nothing about top level football, thinking he went out and targetted players is nonsense. He gave us money for the Oezil, Sanchez, Auba, Lacazette, and Pepe deals after the stadium deal was paid off. I am not saying he's immune to problems, but as I said before he is a very hands off and quite distant owner.

I suggest the list of "almost" was during the time we were paying of the stadium and a reason why the funds were reduced. Nevertheless, Wenger allowed certain players to bypass his list such as Griezmann. I am not saying he would've stayed with us, but he was cheap and very available before being bought by Atletico and they made a cool 100 million off of him. Its these deals, like not paying enough to get Oezil younger and then having to shell out 50 million pounds for him later. Allowing players to leave on frees constantly like Ramsey and others. For the record Gazidis should take major responsibility for the decline as well, even more so than Wenger for me.

That's where I see the negativity towards Kroenke as justified. Since he doesn't spend a lot of time at Arsenal or even in London he just promotes from within, but this isn't anything new. He is very much a seniority type of owner where if you've been with the club a long time, you tend to get promoted quite quickly throughout. Sanhelli hasn't been here long enough to judge him, but his transfers thus far have been a success except in the defensive department. People keep forgetting about Saliba who was a solid buy and just wait until next year, but these quick stop gaps have been terrible. Where the injuries have magnified them times a thousand percent. Remember it's Arsenal FC, not Arsene FC.

 

[YEM]

He gave us money for the Oezil, Sanchez, Auba, Lacazette, and Pepe deals after the stadium deal was paid off. I am not saying he's immune to problems, but as I said before he is a very hands off and quite distant owner.

it's wild to see some Arsenal fans suggest that Kronke is the "worst owner in sport" when these types of deals have occurred. Yeah you've got some legit beefs with him, but he's miles away from the worst.

 

[Burner Account]

The opportunity to restore Arsenal to its former glory should be attractive to good managers but their ownership must also be a major turnoff.

 

[phisherman]

Again, a young player with potential. He's done well against mediocre talent in the Europa league and alright against PL talent, but virtually all top teams have players of his caliber in their academy. He's a decent up and coming piece, but shouldn't be relied upon as some cornerstone that everything rests on.

No they don't.

Pepe was a need because Arsenal needed width in their attack.

And when it comes to Arsenal's transfer history the periods were: Wenger+Dein, Wenger alone, Wenger+StatsDNA, Mislintat and Raul(+Edu going forward).

StatsDNA is what provided great signings like Mustafi, Gabriel, Xhaka, Perez and Elneny.

Mislintat was hit and miss. Seemed like he had a plan to sign younger players but also wanted to add some leadership to the team which led to Lich and Sokratis to be signed.

Raul's signings, which seem to be the plan going forward, is to go young and if the team doesn't succeed they can at least make a profit on these signings in the future.

I also expect both Auba and Laca to not re-sign which would lead them to be sold this summer.

 

[hatterson]

No they don't.

City, United, Liverpool, and Chelsea all have players either at the end of their academy run or just starting their senior run who are of the same quality/potential as Martinelli or are expected to be better.

 

[S E P H]

it's wild to see some Arsenal fans suggest that Kronke is the "worst owner in sport" when these types of deals have occurred. Yeah you've got some legit beefs with him, but he's miles away from the worst.

It's either black or white with Stan, but a lot depends on if the front office is filled with educated people. If you have idiots, then the squad will fail, but if you have brilliant people then the team will be good (I think it comes through trial and error). He's reluctant to fire people until they've over-welcomed their stay, that's what happened with Avs and LaCroix. He won two Cups, stayed for about six years too long, appointed Giguere, wasn't prepared for the Cap era, and failed miserably until both were let go. Actually I think LaCroix is still an advisor for the team, but he's had health problems so it might just be a random title to give him a little paycheque.

Again, I think it is way too fast to judge Sanllehi, but when the results aren't coming in then everyone will get judged and criticised. I don't blame the fans judging though, 119 pounds were the average price to see that dreadful display at the Emirates. A game where Arsenal managed one of the lowest shot totals since like 2007 I read. Other fans can say we haven't had any direction, but I suggest a lot of this falls on Emery. I think the Arsenal board thought he was more of a manager than what he turned out to be. As I said in the past, it happens, but what happened is that the confidence was so bad with Emery that it has simply carried over to Freddie.

 

[phisherman]

City, United, Liverpool, and Chelsea all have players either at the end of their academy run or just starting their senior run who are of the same quality/potential as Martinelli or are expected to be better.

Names please.

And United isn't a top club right now so I don't know why they were included.

 

[AB13]

Saliba: Great buy for the future and fills a huge need

Torreira: Is not the first good DM you've had in years because he isn't that great. If he was you guys wouldn't be leaking goals to anyone and everyone. He might be the best one you've had recently but I wouldn't say he is good.

Guendouzi: good purchase at the time but being that young he shouldn't have been thrown into the fire like he has. Also is he promising or not you flip flop on him everyday.

Martinelli & Pepe: Good players but you don't need anymore forwards. Focus on the damn defense and actually getting a midfielder that isn't hot garbage.

Tierney: could be good but haven't seen enough of him.

Torriera is very good when he plays as a DM and is not being misused by playing further forwards like under Emery.

Lacazette and Aubameyang will not last forever, Martinelli and Pepe are both useful as wingers, which we needed. Martinelli might be a future superstar, one of the best in the world, and you can never have to many of those. He cost 6 million so there was no risk.

Guendouzi is extemely overrated and I do not see that much promise in him, he has had a few great performances but ususally is an extreme liability. He is as inconsistent as they get, but usually poor. The reason I have called hin promising in the past is not because of what I have seen but because he is highly rated. I hope others see something in him that I am missing.

 

[hatterson]

Names please.

And United isn't a top club right now so I don't know why they were included.

Off the top of my head, Greenwood, Foden, Mount, CHO, and Hoever.

Our resident Liverpool fans can likely give a little more info on the attacking talent in their academy, and I could obviously go deeper into United's academy, but those are just quick names that are considered of the same or higher potential than Martinelli and are either still in the academy are just starting their senior career.

 

[AB13]

He's got potential, but assuming he's your future isn't a great idea. He's started a grand total of 19 senior games in his life.



Again, a young player with potential. He's done well against mediocre talent in the Europa league and alright against PL talent, but virtually all top teams have players of his caliber in their academy. He's a decent up and coming piece, but shouldn't be relied upon as some cornerstone that everything rests on.



And he's still a player who isn't good enough to be a regular starter for a side that wants to content for anything of meaning.

The rest is already addressed.

No, almost no other teams has a Martinelli caliber player. He is a top 10 U20 player in the world. He has been our best player during both of his Premier League starts, and averages a goal contribution every 59 minutes in the Europa League, and every 45 minutes in the League Cup. For an 18 year old, that is exeptional. He could even be a future Ballon d’or contender ( not saying he will win one, that is a stretch so far). The impact Martinelli has had on Arsenal is unlike any other 18 year old I have ever seen regularly.

Martinelli is miles ahead of every other Premier League clubs top prospect and it isn’t even close. Saliba is probably even better than Martinelli at this stage.

You should be arrested for crimes against football for even mentioning Mount and Hoever in the same sentence as Martinelli.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

They’re have been plenty of better 18 year olds lol.

And better than any other top prospect... jeez.

 

[AB13]

They’re have been plenty of better 18 year olds lol.

And better than any other top prospect... jeez.

In the Premier League he is miles ahead of every other prospect, yes, and it isn’t close. There have of course been a bunch of better 18 year olds, but I have not watched them regularly.

 

[phisherman]

Off the top of my head, Greenwood, Foden, Mount, CHO, and Hoever.

Our resident Liverpool fans can likely give a little more info on the attacking talent in their academy, and I could obviously go deeper into United's academy, but those are just quick names that are considered of the same or higher potential than Martinelli and are either still in the academy are just starting their senior career.

No, almost no other teams has a Martinelli caliber player. He is a top 10 U20 player in the world. He has been our best player during both of his Premier League starts, and averages a goal contribution every 59 minutes in the Europa League, and every 45 minutes in the League Cup. For an 18 year old, that is exeptional. He could even be a future Ballon d’or contender ( not saying he will win one, that is a stretch so far). The impact Martinelli has had on Arsenal is unlike any other 18 year old I have ever seen regularly.

Martinelli is miles ahead of every other clubs top prospect and it isn’t even close. Saliba is probably even better than Martinelli at this stage.

He's somewhere in between. I mean if you're going to throw those names out then might as well throw in Saka, Smith-Rowe and Nelson.

Your comparison would also mean that you rate them higher than prospects like Antony and Rodrygo since Martin Nelly has better stats than them in the Campeonato Paulista.

As for the bolded you're right. Cesc was only 16 when he started for them.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

In the Premier League he is miles ahead of every other prospect, yes, and it isn’t close. There have of course been a bunch of better 18 year olds, but I have not watched them regularly.

You said better than any other teams prospect prior to your edit.

there’s a certain former arsenal captain that would differ

 

[AB13]

You said better than any other teams prospect prior to your edit.

there’s a certain former arsenal captain that would differ

Yes, but I meant Premier League teams and just forgot to write that.

I don’t think Fabregas was better than Martinelli at 18 from what I can remember. I was still very young back then, some of my first Arsenal memories are of a teenage Cesc starring for us, but I can’t remember enough to properly judge 18 year old Fabregas as a footballer. Fabregas was my idol growing up but I doubt I would take him over Martinelli.

 

[Corto]

None of Chelsea and Spurs are close to being contenders.

Spurs team is coming off a season where they played in the CL final. They're close.
And absolutely in another stratosphere compared to Arsenal.

 

[AB13]

Spurs team is coming off a season where they played in the CL final. They're close.
And absolutely in another stratosphere compared to Arsenal.

A lucky CL final run that they will never repeat again, while finishing 27 points off top spot. They finished one point above Arsenal last season and are 4 points ahead now, despite Arsenal enduring their worst form in four and a half decades. If that is another stratosphere to you, something is very wrong.

 

[PanniniClaus]

Is it not time for Man U to put Greenwood in over Lingard and see what he can do as a starter?

 

[hatterson]

Is it not time for Man U to put Greenwood in over Lingard and see what he can do as a starter?

Not really sure how he'd work at the 10. He's much better either centrally or coming off the right hand side.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Yes, but I meant Premier League teams and just forgot to write that.

I don’t think Fabregas was better than Martinelli at 18 from what I can remember. I was still very young back then, some of my first Arsenal memories are of a teenage Cesc starring for us, but I can’t remember enough to properly judge 18 year old Fabregas as a footballer. Fabregas was my idol growing up but I doubt I would take him over Martinelli.

Correct. He was probably better at 16/17.