GWT: PL Matchweek 17

[AB13]

Which is it then?

I think your bias doesn't let you see things objectively. I mean, you can't even spell Spurs without it showing.

None of these Spurs players are there "by accident", they're all quality players in different stages of their careers.
And saying Kane has somehow regressed, what's the about?

Few weeks ago they were 14th or something. Now they're 5th and they could leapfrog Chelsea with a win on Saturday.
They've gotten high profile players like Ndombele and GLC in the summer (neither have actually worked out yet, but plenty of teams wanted them). Whether you want to admit it or not, yes, the Spurs are a top destination for players right now.
Not in the tier of Madrid or Barca, but certainly a tier above Arsenal.

I never said the players where there by accident, but they are not top quality players in a top quality team, if Sp*rs were a top team, they wouldn’t have had 75 points in the league in 17/18, 71 points last year and only 26 so far this season. Their point totals clearly show a massive regression and have done so for a long time. They are miles off the team they were in 16/17.

Kane’s goal totals clearly show a massive regression. He only scored 13 non penalty goals last season, 17 in total in 28 games, and has only scored 9 goals in 16 games this season. He has been outscored heavily, and I mean very heavily, by Aubameyang, Salah, Vardy, Agüero and Mane since February 2018. If that doesn’t represent a large regression from 17/18, where he scored 30, I don’t know what you consider regression.

Mourinho will turn things around this season, but not finish in a CL spot. He will go relatively far there and maybe win an FA Cup.

********* aren’t a top destination for players. A club that’s on the decline without any history and a small fanbase. The history and fanbase of a club are key in being able to lure players. Sp*rs are just a few points above United and Arsenal, and they aren’t even in the same universe in terms of club size, so if a player gets to chose, I can’t see anyone picking T*tt*nh*m H*tsp*r.

 

[Corto]

I never said the players where there by accident, but they are not top quality players in a top quality team, if Sp*rs were a top team, they wouldn’t have had 75 points in the league in 17/18, 71 points last year and only 26 so far this season. Their point totals clearly show a massive regression and have done so for a long time. They are miles off the team they were in 16/17.

Last year they were so far ahead of anyone chasing a CL spot that it didn't matter. A mix of their form dropping and them concentrating on the CL (including playing a "B" team vs City in the league and at the same time beating them in the CL), and there's your explanation.

Kane’s goal totals clearly show a massive regression. He only scored 13 non penalty goals last season, 17 in total in 28 games, and has only scored 9 goals in 16 games this season. He has been outscored heavily, and I mean very heavily, by Aubameyang, Salah, Vardy, Agüero and Mane since February 2018. If that doesn’t represent a large regression from 17/18, where he scored 30, I don’t know what you consider regression.

Kane was injured. And that's the whole story. The first half of the season was basically a write off, including the struggle to get fit for the CL final.

********* aren’t a top destination for players. A club that’s on the decline without any history and a small fanbase. The history and fanbase of a club are key in being able to lure players. Sp*rs are just a few points above United and Arsenal, and they aren’t even in the same universe in terms of club size, so if a player gets to chose, I can’t see anyone picking T*tt*nh*m H*tsp*r.

History and fanbase go only so far. Club (Arsenal) is in shambles, front office is lost, no plan, no direction, no world class players, and no world class players will be coming either.
Spurs right now are a tidy club with excellent infrastructure and a good player core, with a marquee manager.

But again, seeing as how your hatred of them is pouring out of the way you have to spell their name like that... I'm not sure this is a discussion worth having with you.

 

[SSF]

Why do you guys insist on continuing this? Can you please stop? Thanks.

 

[Havre]

What is the problem? Matchweek 17 is over. Not exactly "spamming" other conversations by them discussing in this thread.

 

[Burner Account]

Did I dream or wasn't there a North London thread for this exact purpose?

 

[AB13]

Last year they were so far ahead of anyone chasing a CL spot that it didn't matter. A mix of their form dropping and them concentrating on the CL (including playing a "B" team vs City in the league and at the same time beating them in the CL), and there's your explanation.



Kane was injured. And that's the whole story. The first half of the season was basically a write off, including the struggle to get fit for the CL final.



History and fanbase go only so far. Club (Arsenal) is in shambles, front office is lost, no plan, no direction, no world class players, and no world class players will be coming either.
Spurs right now are a tidy club with excellent infrastructure and a good player core, with a marquee manager.

But again, seeing as how your hatred of them is pouring out of the way you have to spell their name like that... I'm not sure this is a discussion worth having with you.

Did you just say Arsenal have no world class players? Both Aubameyang and Lacazette had more G/A than Kane last season, despite Lacazette having more of a Firmino esque false 9 role than being a pure goalscorer under Emery. Both have more G/A per minute this season, and the same is true for last season. If they are not world class, Kane is not either. Considering the very comfortable margin Aubameyang has outscored Kane with since he arrived in the PL, he could be considered ahead.

Kane was fit enough to play 28 games, and only scored 17 goals. His form this season has been far from world class once again!

I am sorry, you can’t claim that a team with very little history and a small fanbase, who finished 25 points of the top 2 seasons ago, 27 points of the top last season, and are 23 points behind after 17 games this season, are anywhere near challenging for a big title or being able to lure world class talent consistently. Claiming that is absolutely insane.

Arsenal have a clear direction, ”build for the future”. Tierney, Martinelli, Saliba, Torriera, Bellerin, Saka and Pepe are great pieces to build a rebuild around. Some people would also argue Guendouzi is one, although I am not high on him at all.

 

[Corto]

Did you just say Arsenal have no world class players? Both Aubameyang and Lacazette had more G/A than Kane last season, despite Lacazette having more of a Firmino esque false 9 role than being a pure goalscorer under Emery. Both have more G/A per minute this season, and the same is true for last season. If they are not world class, Kane is not either. Considering the very comfortable margin Aubameyang has outscored Kane with since he arrived in the PL, he could be considered ahead.

No, Lacazette is not a world class player. If he was, he wouldn't be struggling to make Arsenal starting 11 under 3 different managers.
Auba... Hard to say really. He's obviously really good, but sure, let's call him world class. You got one of those.

Arsenal have a clear direction, ”build for the future”. Tierney, Martinelli, Saliba, Torriera, Bellerin, Saka and Pepe are great pieces to build a rebuild around. Some people would also argue Guendouzi is one, although I am not high on him at all.

Keep telling yourself that. Martinelli, Saliba, Saka are all projects who may or may not pan out.
Torreira is not, and never will be, a world class midfielder. Tierney is good, will be better, same for Pepe.
All in all, nothing to write home about, and certainly far behind City and Liverpool, and yes, behind Chelsea and Spurs as well.

 

[AB13]

No, Lacazette is not a world class player. If he was, he wouldn't be struggling to make Arsenal starting 11 under 3 different managers.
Auba... Hard to say really. He's obviously really good, but sure, let's call him world class. You got one of those.



Keep telling yourself that. Martinelli, Saliba, Saka are all projects who may or may not pan out.
Torreira is not, and never will be, a world class midfielder. Tierney is good, will be better, same for Pepe.
All in all, nothing to write home about, and certainly far behind City and Liverpool, and yes, behind Chelsea and Spurs as well.

Lacazette started basically every game when fully fit under Wenger and Emery, Ljungberg is not even a manager so I wouldn't judge too much of what he thinks. At times, the balance of the team just did not work with two strikers though, but that usually resulted in Auba playing on the wing, not Lacazette being dropped. Lacazette is a much better, more complete all round footballer than Kane.

Your judgement on those players are atrocious. Saliba and Martinelli are top 10 U20 players in world football, and Torriera is absolutely brilliant as a DM, which he did not get enough chances to under Emery. We have so many more high potential players than Chelsea and those w*nkers in white.

 

[Burner Account]

Did I dream or wasn't there a North London thread for this exact purpose?

Not a dream

The North London thread: Tottenham vs Arsenal

 

[AB13]

Not a dream

The North London thread: Tottenham vs Arsenal

Does not matter where you write it, deal with it. Should we ban all Liverpool vs City talk here too?

 

[Burner Account]

Does not matter where you write it, deal with it. Should we ban all Liverpool vs City talk here too?

I think the purpose of that thread was to contain the toxic bickering.

 

[AB13]

I think the purpose of that thread was to contain the toxic bickering.

None of it is toxic, we are having rational discussions.

 

[YNWA14]

Your judgement on those players are atrocious. Saliba and Martinelli are top 10 U20 players in world football, and Torriera is absolutely brilliant as a DM, which he did not get enough chances to under Emery. We have so many more high potential players than Chelsea and those w*nkers in white.

Oh my.

Sancho, Felix, Havertz, de Ligt, Vinicius, Zaniolo, Haaland, Rodrygo, Mount, Foden, Hudson-Odoi, Chukwueze, Fati, Kulusevski, A. Davies, Camavinga, Kang-In Lee, J. David, Greenwood, B. Kamara, Boadu, Malen, Ihattaren, J. Traore, Florentino etc. etc. are all u20 talents that could easily be argued above Martinelli and Saliba.

Arsenal really are going to be the best team in the world in a few years with their youth crop and young players like Torreira (better than any Liverpool midfielder I’ve heard) and Pepe (better than Mane).

I like Aubameyang but he’s very one dimensional and Lacazette is not world class.

 

[AB13]

Oh my.

Sancho, Felix, Havertz, de Ligt, Vinicius, Zaniolo, Haaland, Rodrygo, Mount, Foden, Hudson-Odoi, Chukwueze, Fati, Kulusevski, A. Davies, Camavinga, Kang-In Lee, J. David, Greenwood, B. Kamara, Boadu, Malen, Ihattaren, J. Traore, Florentino etc. etc. are all u20 talents that could easily be argued above Martinelli and Saliba.

Arsenal really are going to be the best team in the world in a few years with their youth crop and young players like Torreira (better than any Liverpool midfielder I’ve heard) and Pepe (better than Mane).

I like Aubameyang but he’s very one dimensional and Lacazette is not world class.

Felix, Havertz, De Ligt, Zaniolo, Chukwueze, Mount, Kamara and Malen are not U20 players though. I would take a few of those over Saliba and Martinelli, but I would probably have both around the 10 range. I would take the Arsenal kids over David, Davies, Kulusevski, Greenwood, Traore, Florentino, Hudson-Odoi ( absolute joke that you even mentioned him), Foden, Fati, Vinicius, Ihattaren and Boadu.

Torriera is not better than any Liverpool midfielder, I never said that just because I said he was better during a two month stint last season. On his day, he is good enough to start for Liverpool, but he is not consistent enough. Pepe is not better than Mane, not a chance, I said that in the summer before Pepe struggled and Mane started playing even better than usual this season. I think Pepe can become just as good though.

We have some pieces to become a truly great team in a few years, but we will need to keep finding gems and will need Kroenke to invest more heavily.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Oh my.

Sancho, Felix, Havertz, de Ligt, Vinicius, Zaniolo, Haaland, Rodrygo, Mount, Foden, Hudson-Odoi, Chukwueze, Fati, Kulusevski, A. Davies, Camavinga, Kang-In Lee, J. David, Greenwood, B. Kamara, Boadu, Malen, Ihattaren, J. Traore, Florentino etc. etc. are all u20 talents that could easily be argued above Martinelli and Saliba.

Arsenal really are going to be the best team in the world in a few years with their youth crop and young players like Torreira (better than any Liverpool midfielder I’ve heard) and Pepe (better than Mane).

I like Aubameyang but he’s very one dimensional and Lacazette is not world class.

Jr sucks tbh. I have the Arsenal kid better than him. You can add Puig to that list

 

[YNWA14]

All the players I listed would be considered u20. That you wouldn’t even hesitate to take those two over players that have shown more and are in most cases younger at higher levels is not overly surprising. Davies is a starter for Bayern and was one of the best players in the group stages for the CL; those two will be lucky to ever play in the CL at all.

Jr sucks tbh. I have the Arsenal kid better than him. You can add Puig to that list

Ehhhh before his injury he looked pretty good for Madrid.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

All the players I listed would be considered u20. That you wouldn’t even hesitate to take those two over players that have shown more and are in most cases younger at higher levels is not overly surprising. Davies is a starter for Bayern and was one of the best players in the group stages for the CL; those two will be lucky to ever play in the CL at all.

Ehhhh before his injury he looked pretty good for Madrid.

Nah he's a soccer Pejorative Slur. The Arsenal kid is much much smarter and thus will probably be the better player. Despite Jr physical attributes.

 

[phisherman]

All the players I listed would be considered u20. That you wouldn’t even hesitate to take those two over players that have shown more and are in most cases younger at higher levels is not overly surprising. Davies is a starter for Bayern and was one of the best players in the group stages for the CL; those two will be lucky to ever play in the CL at all.

Wow you must have a crystal ball or something to be so certain.

 

[Savant]

Not a dream

The North London thread: Tottenham vs Arsenal

Of course a Man U fan created the London thread lol

 

[Savant]

Does not matter where you write it, deal with it. Should we ban all Liverpool vs City talk here too?

I mean, I guess we can make a Northwest Thread to talk about the good teams in the league

 

[AB13]

All the players I listed would be considered u20. That you wouldn’t even hesitate to take those two over players that have shown more and are in most cases younger at higher levels is not overly surprising. Davies is a starter for Bayern and was one of the best players in the group stages for the CL; those two will be lucky to ever play in the CL at all.

Ehhhh before his injury he looked pretty good for Madrid.

Saw this stat in november, Saint Etienne had won 11 out of 13 games with Saliba in Ligue 1 during 2019, a win percentage of 84.6%, conceding just 6 goals in those 13 games, 0.46 goals against per game.

Since Saliba has struggled with injuries, Saint Etienne have played 19 Ligue 1 matches in 2019 without Saliba starting, winning just 5 of those – meaning their win rate drops to 26.3%.
In those games, they have conceded 28 goals at an average of 1.47 per game.

William Saliba is 18 and has possibly been the best CB in Ligue 1 this year.

That is truly remarkable, name me one of the players I said I would take him over that has had a similar impact on their team? Anyone who knows enough about Saliba would find it insulting that you compared the likes of Chukwueze, Mount, David, Greenwood, Traore, Hudson-Odoi, Foden and Kang in Lee to Saliba.

 

[YNWA14]

Saliba is not on the same level as Kamara (not to mention some of the other L1 CBs) and what about those players is insulting? They’re all among the top talents of their birth years. Just because you don’t know them doesn’t make Saliba automatically better; especially just going off of some out of context stats from a mediocre team in the weakest of the top 5 leagues. Read recently that Liverpool have never lost a game which Keita has started or something like that; is he the best midfielder in the world?

 

[hatterson]

Saliba has started 4 league games this season and 17 in his entire life, so yea I'd say you're drawing some pretty absurd conclusions based on a very small sample size.

 

[phisherman]

Saliba has started 4 league games this season and 17 in his entire life, so yea I'd say you're drawing some pretty absurd conclusions based on a very small sample size.

Also pretty absurd to say he will never play in the CL.

 

[Savant]

Also pretty absurd to say he will never play in the CL.

Never is a very long time but if Arsenal can’t even jump Man Utd with Ole at the wheel, it’s really hard to see them breaking through the Top 4.