GWT: PL Matchweek 16

[Chimaera]

OGS is gone now, amirite?

I'll take the bait, since I'm probably the main culprit of saying he isn't good enough.

He got it right in selection and performance in both of the past two matches. That's great. Honestly, he should. Maybe these two matches kick off a run, get them rolling, get support behind him, and allows him to go out and get some players he desperately needs (though the idea that they have to spend MORE money is pretty crazy). But I don't think you have to do a lot of coaching and inspiration to get players going to play against Liverpool or City. Sure, tactically, he is able to match wits with some of the best. Though, I think that's related to the fact that he can play defensively, and hope to hit the teams on the break, more so than break down teams.

The issues I have are where is the same effort against clubs they should beat? He can get his team jacked up against the top sides (performance against the top 6, or at least clubs who should be there) have been pretty good. Effort hasn't been a concern there. But against teams that United should flat track bully, there hasn't been the same result. Some of that is related to the fact that teams can make United come onto them, break them down, and they are derelict of inspiration in the final third at times. But there's still some warning signs that shouldn't let two matches get anyone too excited.

 

[YNWA14]

I mean...did Ole really 'get it right' against City? For me that's much more a bad approach by Pep than it was a good one by United. United played the same they do against every big team that will have more possession than them. Pep's lack of pragmatism seems to be the culprit right now with his recent results; despite clearly not having the cover for the high line and style they play he continues to do it without any sort of change or tweak to try and protect his backline/keeper more. It's not just United that has been exposing them on the counter, they just have better players than most of the teams that have been doing it. I don't think much has changed at United here, but maybe that's just me.

 

[Chimaera]

If they got three points, and a win, against a better side, I think objectively, they got it right. Whether or not it was a great performance, or a tactical master class (the fools trying to say that are crazy), or even him out coaching his opposite party, doesn't really matter.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I mean...did Ole really 'get it right' against City? For me that's much more a bad approach by Pep than it was a good one by United. United played the same they do against every big team that will have more possession than them. Pep's lack of pragmatism seems to be the culprit right now with his recent results; despite clearly not having the cover for the high line and style they play he continues to do it without any sort of change or tweak to try and protect his backline/keeper more. It's not just United that has been exposing them on the counter, they just have better players than most of the teams that have been doing it. I don't think much has changed at United here, but maybe that's just me.

This is pretty accurate I would say. United haven’t really changed how they played against lower level teams, it’s just that they are much more effective against teams that attack and don’t set up in a low block. Hence our success against the top 6. But when we play a team like Aston Villa or Sheffield united awe struggle because we have have the ball 50% of the time or more and we just don’t have the midfield talent to break down defenses.

So while people will be lauding OGS for getting right and turning things around I don’t have much more confidence going forward until he proves that he can adjust for teams defending well against us and actually setting us up to unlock a defense.

 

[hatterson]

He got it right against City in that he didn't screw it up, but it was also the most obvious thing ever. Let them attack you, stay sound defensively, and hit hard on the counter. United have basically perfect players to do that. Two defensively solid (one good, one excellent) fullbacks. Good positional CBs, a smart midfielder in McTominay, and a very pacey front 3.

Spurs was really more about Aurier and Sissoko being completely unable to contain Rashford out wide and Spurs midfield getting bossed hard and little about how the teams were set up aside from the obvious selection choices on United's side which, again, were more about just making obvious calls than some great strategy.

 

[Havre]

So let's say Guardiola got it wrong. Was OGS supposed to find another way to win just to prove a point?

I don't rate OGS that highly when it comes to the tactical side of the game, but give him some credit.

Fred looks a player. McTominay is a beast these days. Rashford is excellent. I still don't think Utd will end up top 4, but OGS is doing better than I expected him to. If Pogba comes back fresh and motivated they will be difficult to beat. And Pogba will help a lot against weaker teams (which is their biggest weakness).

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Way to overreact after 2 wins.... lol.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Way to overreact after 2 wins.... lol.

Who’s overreacting?

 

[hatterson]

Yes, he gets credit for not screwing it up. But that doesn't really change how I feel about his tactical abilities.

If he's able to actually build on this against Everton, Watford, Newcastle, and Burnley in their next 4 games, and actually look like the team might be capable of pushing Chelsea for what appears to be the last spot in the top 4, then I'll start believing a bit but until then it's basically the same as we've seen before.

 

[YNWA14]

 

[YNWA14]

So let's say Guardiola got it wrong. Was OGS supposed to find another way to win just to prove a point?

Not really sure anyone was making this argument. The point is that there was not much proven in this game except what we already knew; United are pretty strong on the counter and City are pretty weak against the counter right now.

 

[Chimaera]

A better questions is will it take more money to fix, or can he tactically figure out how to use what he has to beat teams that will bunker against him?

I would put my money on the former being the method, more so than the latter, but it's certainly going to be interesting to see.

 

[Havre]

Not really sure anyone was making this argument. The point is that there was not much proven in this game except what we already knew; United are pretty strong on the counter and City are pretty weak against the counter right now.

Not sure what point you were trying to make. If it was that easy City would win a lot less.

Well. I guess they are.

 

[hatterson]

A better questions is will it take more money to fix, or can he tactically figure out how to use what he has to beat teams that will bunker against him?

I would put my money on the former being the method, more so than the latter, but it's certainly going to be interesting to see.

United absolutely need to spend more money to fix the issues fully. That doesn't mean that they haven't spent enough yet, but that they've spent that money poorly. They clearly don't have enough talent to compete for a domestic title or anything of meaning continentally.

That said, they do have enough talent right now to compete for the top 4, especially with the struggles others are having and Ole is not doing enough to get them there primarily due to how they play against mid and especially lower table teams. Teams who, despite United's lack of talent relative to their standard, are clearly short of United from a talent standpoint.

 

[Gecklund]

Honestly if Fred continues this play and we can slot Pogba at 10, it solves a lot of our issues.

 

[Pouchkine]

Goals on average count 2-3 times more than "assists". Stop with the crap stats.

 

[YNWA14]

Torreira has to be one of the biggest floppers in the PL.

Goals on average count 2-3 times more than "assists". Stop with the crap stats.

It's all situational, but I can't disagree more. Regardless Mahrez has looked like City's most dangerous player almost every time I've watched them play and he's been on. Since when are G+A 'crap stats' now? Geez.

 

[robertmac43]

This game is moving at a snails pace...

 

[AB13]

Encouraging singns from Arsenal, the vertical passing looks a lot better than under Emery, and the attacking will to play forwards is there. We just lack all kinds of intensity, we need to run so much more.

 

[YNWA14]

That non-foul on Anderson in the box looked pretty similar to the penalty United got against City. Would have to see the replay but defender didn't look like going for the ball at all.

 

[Pouchkine]

Torreira has to be one of the biggest floppers in the PL.

It's all situational, but I can't disagree more. Regardless Mahrez has looked like City's most dangerous player almost every time I've watched them play and he's been on. Since when are G+A 'crap stats' now? Geez.

Assists are for hockey not soccer.

 

[BergyTime37]

Thought that should have been a pen for West Ham. Anderson got taken down pretty good there...Uninspiring start from both teams at the London Stadium.

 

[Live in the Now]

I was going to say that Arsenal has good fullbacks, but fullbacks are heavily reliant on a team having good central defenders in order to use them right. Now their two best fullbacks are out so that's irrelevant.

 

[AB13]

Tierney is brilliant, his injury a massive blow. I can’t deal with Kebabsinac, the worst left back in the league, any longer.

 

[YNWA14]

Assists are for hockey not soccer.

That's nonsense.

Thought that should have been a pen for West Ham. Anderson got taken down pretty good there...Uninspiring start from both teams at the London Stadium.

Thought so as well initially still haven't seen the replay.

Looks like Tierney dislocated his shoulder if I had to guess based on what caused the injury...maybe torn rotator cuff or something like that? Never like to see it.