GWT: PL Matchweek 12

[Blender]

Leicester 9 points up on Sheffield, who is in 5th, and have scored 29 goals (2nd) and allowed only 8 goals (1st) in 12 games.

 

[phisherman]

Right now vardy is better then him in my opinion. Arsenal is a tire fire from top to bottom. Auba is the better player. But I’m talking about now

So you should say he's in better form.

 

[phisherman]

I had Arsenal ahead of Spurs preseason and what exactly is my logic? Liking the Leicester players more than the Arsenal players? I like Aubameyang but aside from him and maybe Pepe if he finds form Arsenal’s players are just not that impressive. People keep blaming Emery but the amount of individual error and mistake coupled with lack of ability to execute anything on the pitch is easy to scapegoat with a bad manager. This team has bigger problems than Emery.

Yes the lack of execution is based on the lack of talent on the team. Not because of the lack of clear direction from the manager who sets up the team. Got it.

 

[YNWA14]

Yes the lack of execution is based on the lack of talent on the team. Not because of the lack of clear direction from the manager who sets up the team. Got it.

He sets them up to try and dribble 3 players and lose the ball? Or misplace every fourth pass under pressure? Right. It’s all Emery as d2m said if only they had a good manager they’d be challenging for the treble.

Whether or not they are set up poorly doesn’t mean he controls Bellerin passing sideways to the other team and missing a wide open team mate or Lacazette missing the net in what looked like a great scoring opportunity (then flopping to the ground) etc. etc. Individually they’ve been awful on top of setting up poorly.

Reminds me of when United just blamed Mourinho for everything. Sorry, the team just lacks quality and their perceived talents are way beyond what is reality (I also got caught up in this).

 

[S E P H]

Ozil is the best player in possession in the squad.

You have to be trolling here, this is so insanely wrong I don't think you can get any much wronger and I mean that with respect. Ozil's possession game is like somebody opening an ice cream shop on the surface of the sun.

Just off the top of my head, Vardy and Maddison are better then anything arsenal has. Schmeicel is better then Leno.

LOLOLOLOLOL Vardy and Maddison are better?

Auba just won player of the month in October or August, forgot which one. Vardy is as consistent as they come, but Auba is the superior player and Lacazette is a superior player when he doesn't look like he has his head in his ass. Maddison is better than Ceballos, but I wouldn't say that it's by much, that's one part of the pitch Arsenal still needs to fix in the transfer window though.

Schmeichel is easily better than Leno, no doubt about that. Arsenal have better youth and better depth, you're being way too present based (and others here). Arsenal have probably been the worst team in the EPL after Spurs, Soton, and WHU, our current form is dreadful while LC's form is probably one of the best in Europe. One team playing with a ton of confidence and the other one didn't, that's more of a reason why they won when disregarding talent or who's better.

 

[phisherman]

He sets them up to try and dribble 3 players and lose the ball? Or misplace every fourth pass under pressure? Right. It’s all Emery as d2m said if only they had a good manager they’d be challenging for the treble.

Imagine trying to understand instructions from a coach who says something like this. This also goes with all the reports about how the players have no clue what Emery tells them.


But please tell me that you know more about my club than me.

D2M also called Poch top 3 manager.

 

[S E P H]

I had Arsenal ahead of Spurs preseason and what exactly is my logic? Liking the Leicester players more than the Arsenal players? I like Aubameyang but aside from him and maybe Pepe if he finds form Arsenal’s players are just not that impressive. People keep blaming Emery but the amount of individual error and mistake coupled with lack of ability to execute anything on the pitch is easy to scapegoat with a bad manager. This team has bigger problems than Emery.

Every single Arsenal player is playing with zero confidence, of course every single LC player will look better.

 

[KJS14]

I had Arsenal ahead of Spurs preseason and what exactly is my logic? Liking the Leicester players more than the Arsenal players? I like Aubameyang but aside from him and maybe Pepe if he finds form Arsenal’s players are just not that impressive. People keep blaming Emery but the amount of individual error and mistake coupled with lack of ability to execute anything on the pitch is easy to scapegoat with a bad manager. This team has bigger problems than Emery.

If you gave most competent managers this Arsenal squad, they'd be comfortably in the top 4. If it was just problems with the defense, which I would continue to expect with the players Emery has available to him, then sure he would be getting used as the scapegoat. But he's managed to stifle all chance creation and attacking play of a side that includes Auba, Lacazette, Ozil, Pepe, and good fullbacks (at least going forward), while the defense has been just as bad, if not worse.

 

[YNWA14]

Imagine trying to understand instructions from a coach who says something like this. This also goes with all the reports about how the players have no clue what Emery tells them.


But please tell me that you know more about my club than me.

D2M also called Poch top 3 manager.

Apparently I do since we had this discussion 2 years ago and look where the mighty Arsenal went and where Liverpool went pretty much to a T.

His instructions have nothing to do with individually appalling performances.

 

[N o o d l e s]

I don’t know. You can forgive one for wondering why you’re talking about Liverpool during a match not involving Liverpool, when Liverpool also doesn’t even play today. Chalking up a 40-something-game unbeaten run to luck seems like an oversimplification but “that’s cool.”

It may be easier for people to understand you if you don’t condescend.

Tottenham has been getting a lot of lucky breaks lately. Liverpool has, too. There’s the end of the comparison.

 

[phisherman]

Apparently I do since we had this discussion 2 years ago and look where the mighty Arsenal went and where Liverpool went pretty much to a T.

His instructions have nothing to do with individually appalling performances.

It's funny that Liverpool fans are known for being snobs about their own team. Yet they're not content with that and try to be snobs about all of football.

Yes you're a football god.

Maybe. Just maybe. When a TEAM isn't setup properly with no clear instructions it leads to player's making individual mistakes in a TEAM sport.

I know hard to believe right?

 

[Blender]

If you gave most competent managers this Arsenal squad, they'd be comfortably in the top 4. If it was just problems with the defense, which I would continue to expect with the players Emery has available to him, then sure he would be getting used as the scapegoat. But he's managed to stifle all chance creation and attacking play of a side that includes Auba, Lacazette, Ozil, Pepe, and good fullbacks (at least going forward), while the defense has been just as bad, if not worse.

Huge stretch that they would be "comfortably in the top 4", they'd certainly have a few more points and be more competitive with Manchester City, Leicester, and Chelsea than they have been.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Imagine trying to understand instructions from a coach who says something like this. This also goes with all the reports about how the players have no clue what Emery tells them.

But please tell me that you know more about my club than me.

D2M also called Poch top 3 manager.

He is, a bad start to the season doesn't make him worse than the likes of Simeone. Who's this board has a love affair with.

 

[YNWA14]

If you gave most competent managers this Arsenal squad, they'd be comfortably in the top 4. If it was just problems with the defense, which I would continue to expect with the players Emery has available to him, then sure he would be getting used as the scapegoat. But he's managed to stifle all chance creation and attacking play of a side that includes Auba, Lacazette, Ozil, Pepe, and good fullbacks (at least going forward), while the defense has been just as bad, if not worse.

The same was said of Mourinho and that United we’re comfortably one of the best rosters in the league and that they’d challenge Liverpool for 2nd under a decent manager. I don’t think Emery is doing them any favours but I also just think Arsenal is lacking in quality. They’re far from the clear cut 4th best team. Spurs, despite their struggles, also have a better team.

 

[phisherman]

He is, a bad start to the season doesn't make him worse than the likes of Simeone. Who's this board has a love affair with.

It's gone further back than just this season. Look at his league results since January.

 

[S E P H]

There is no question they are better, at least their starting 11 is for sure. They lack the attacking depth Arsenal has, but their midfield is much better, no one Arsenal has starts over Maddison, Tielemans, Ndidi, and their defense is better as well. Schmeichel is also a better keeper than Leno. Vardy is good enough Arsenal would find a way to play him with Auba.

If you think they're better, then that's your opinion, but I also think it's insanely stupid to judge the teams currently.

As I told Curtis, every single Arsenal player is playing with zero confidence. I am not going to get into a dick measuring contest here, but if we disregard Guendouzi whho is very polarising, you seriously think Maddison, Tielemans, and Ndidi are shoulders above Cebellos, Torreira, Nelson, Willock, and Smith-Rowe? Nelson is already around Maddison's level and has the potential to be better, just needs more experience. Ndidi is a stupid player and Torreira is better; Emery has been using him extremely poorly. Tielemans is good, but Cebellos is close to his level. I would say that LC has gotten more playing time together, has better chemistry, and is more EPL proven than our lot. But not better on paper.

Saliba is as good as Söyüncü is, he will prove it next year. Tierney and Bellerin are better than whoever LC can push out as well.

So again, not sure what you lot are getting at?

 

[KJS14]

Huge stretch that they would be "comfortably in the top 4", they'd certainly have a few more points and be more competitive with Manchester City, Leicester, and Chelsea than they have been.

That's a fair point. Probably a stretch to say that, but there's no doubt they are in the mix with those 3 teams at this point in the season. Chelsea and Leicester have both been very good this season.

I think my points about Emery still stand. The team has regressed in all aspects since he took over.

 

[YNWA14]

It's funny that Liverpool fans are known for being snobs about their own team. Yet they're not content with that and try to be snobs about all of football.

Yes you're a football god.

Maybe. Just maybe. When a TEAM isn't setup properly with no clear instructions it leads to player's making individual mistakes in a TEAM sport.

I know hard to believe right?

Try not to throw stones in glass houses chap (the irony of an arsenal fan chiding me for acting a snob or speaking on Liverpool fans at all lol).You don’t want to be spoken to that way don’t initiate it. You were wrong before and I’m commenting on what is currently happening. It’s being blind to the situation to think this is all Emery’s fault; it’s not, Arsenal lack quality pretty much all over the pitch and it’s not going to be fixed by the world class academy future legends either. They need a new manager and some quality added or they’ll continue to struggle to be where they/their fans think they should be.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

It's gone further back than just this season. Look at his league results since January.

Sounds good but there isn’t a better coach other than pep and kloppo right now

 

[hatterson]

Reminds me of when United just blamed Mourinho for everything. Sorry, the team just lacks quality and their perceived talents are way beyond what is reality (I also got caught up in this).

There's definitely a combination of both (as there was at United under Mou and now under Ole)

The manager is not remotely setting them up well for success and, on top of that, the players are individually failing hard.

 

[Halladay]

The Champions league places are pretty much all determined. Now just the order.

 

[phisherman]

Try not to throw stones in glass houses chap (the irony of an arsenal fan chiding me for acting a snob or speaking on Liverpool fans at all lol).You don’t want to be spoken to that way don’t initiate it. You were wrong before and I’m commenting on what is currently happening. It’s being blind to the situation to think this is all Emery’s fault; it’s not, Arsenal lack quality pretty much all over the pitch and it’s not going to be fixed by the world class academy future legends either. They need a new manager and some quality added or they’ll continue to struggle to be where they/their fans think they should be.

Leicester practically has the same team as last season except their form changed once they changed managers. Yet their players are supposedly clearly more talented individually than the ones that Arsenal have.

I never said I didn't want to be spoken that way either. I was wrong in believing in Emery but he clearly even duped the Arsenal board. I wasn't wrong though about the team having a great infrastructure. I just never saw them to be this bad under Emery. A good manager can easily turn things around which is demonstrated by your favourite manager at Leicester and what Klopp did with your club.

 

[S E P H]

Just looked at it now, Arsenal's last win was on October 24th against Vitoria and that's after they went down 2-0 in that game.

Arsenal's last EPL win was October 6th against Bournemouth. Lol, mid-table club confirmed.

 

[KJS14]

Mourinho could coach circles around Emery. In fact, every time Mourinho has talked about Arsenal tactically this year, he has been spot on. If you gave me the option to have Mourinho take over for the rest of the season but not long-term, I'd be all for that.

Mourinho didn't get as much credit for what he did with that United side that had a few top talents, but not much other talent to surround them. Obviously he imploded in the 3rd year as is typical, but like you said, the real problem with United has been the ownership/Woodward. Arsenal's situation may be comparable to a degree, but I think they clearly have more talent than United.

 

[Blender]

If you think they're better, then that's your opinion, but I also think it's insanely stupid to judge the teams currently.

As I told Curtis, every single Arsenal player is playing with zero confidence. I am not going to get into a dick measuring contest here, but if we disregard Guendouzi whho is very polarising, you seriously think Maddison, Tielemans, and Ndidi are shoulders above Cebellos, Torreira, Nelson, Willock, and Smith-Rowe? Nelson is already around Maddison's level and has the potential to be better, just needs more experience. Ndidi is a stupid player and Torreira is better; Emery has been using him extremely poorly. Tielemans is good, but Cebellos is close to his level. I would say that LC has gotten more playing time together, has better chemistry, and is more EPL proven than our lot. But not better on paper.

Saliba is as good as Söyüncü is, he will prove it next year. Tierney and Bellerin are better than whoever LC can push out as well.

So again, not sure what you lot are getting at?

For one, I've been high on Leicester since before the season started, so it's not just currently. People underestimated their defenders and didn't credit how good their midfield is nearly enough. Maddison, Ndidi, and Tielemans have controlled every game they have played together in (a few injuries here and there have broken them up at times).

Nelson has shown and proven nothing to be as good as Maddison. Ndidi is easily better than Torreira and is currently leading the league in tackles, and right up there in other defensive stats as well. He's destroying teams who try and attack Leicester up the middle. Tielemans has revived his career with Leicester, this is exactly the player people were so high on before his struggles at Monaco.

Saliba is not as good as Soyuncu right now, there is nothing that demonstrates this to be true. You seem to be confusing potential for current ability.

Ricardo and Bellerin is a wash, but Ricardo is in better form this year. Chilwell is better than Tierney right now, may not be the case long term but they are the same age and Chilwell has proven himself at a higher league level than Tierney has so far.