Live in the Now
Registered User
At least it seems like relegation battles will be completely out of the question this season. Benrahma is also nowhere near top form.
GWT: PL Matchweek 10
- Thread starter Blender
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At least it seems like relegation battles will be completely out of the question this season. Benrahma is also nowhere near top form.
robertmac43
Forever 43!
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Blender
Registered User
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VAR was supposed to make stuff like this better, but the EPL has managed to make it worse. Penalty decisions are even more baffling.
robertmac43
Forever 43!
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It's past ridiculous at this point. I liked the idea of VAR but the execution has gotten worse not better with time.
gary69
Registered User
I'm not sure if the reaction would have been much different if Cavani had used the "neutral" word negro (black) instead of negrito. Probably would have been racism accusations as well. Likely no reason for him why to have said, but at least word can't be deemed racist. So intent and context should mean something.
Power Man
Grrrr
Jussi
Registered User
If that was called offside, the Villa(?) player's knee is ahead of both West Ham players.
I just don't understand drawing the line from an attacker's arm. If he can't score with it, then what advantage is gained by it being "offside"?
Edit: I guess the logic is you can score with the upper arm/shoulder, but still. They should just mark it from the feet and be done with it.
Edit: I guess the logic is you can score with the upper arm/shoulder, but still. They should just mark it from the feet and be done with it.
Canes
Registered User
They should just make it where if the video ref doesn't see it being an obvious and blatant offside giving the scoring team an unfair advantage after maybe 20-30 seconds of watching the replay in question and has to do this stupid computer tracing thing for several minutes then it should be a good goal.
robertmac43
Forever 43!
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Chimaera
same ol' Caps
I don't get how they can call that from that angle. It looks like they're not even on line with the players. I think feet would be easier to cover than armpit, or elbow, or whatever the heck it is.
I'm in support of VAR for the most part. I want plays to be called correctly. I encourage the ref to look at the monitor and use it. But... when it looks all over the place where players and managers don't even know what's a goal and what's it is going too far. There have been two or three for Liverpool specifically (obviously, the matches I watch the most) where I can't even see where it's offside. At this point, why have a ref, just put laser chips in players, computer analyze where they were! /sarcasm
I know the EPL and FIFA in general would never do it, but go to a challenge system. Give managers 2 challenges a match where they can say, you missed something. If they win the first two, they can get a third. Otherwise, let the officials on the pitch make the call, and live with it.
I'm in support of VAR for the most part. I want plays to be called correctly. I encourage the ref to look at the monitor and use it. But... when it looks all over the place where players and managers don't even know what's a goal and what's it is going too far. There have been two or three for Liverpool specifically (obviously, the matches I watch the most) where I can't even see where it's offside. At this point, why have a ref, just put laser chips in players, computer analyze where they were! /sarcasm
I know the EPL and FIFA in general would never do it, but go to a challenge system. Give managers 2 challenges a match where they can say, you missed something. If they win the first two, they can get a third. Otherwise, let the officials on the pitch make the call, and live with it.
Must be that foreign Irish blood. We all know the English never cheat!
They need to implement Wenger's suggestion of offside. Which is basically like the hockey offside rule where as long as any part of the body is within the line they are considered onside.
Jussi
Registered User
That looked his knee jammed from that incidental contact on it and once he put weight on it, it had an unexpected effect.
The EPL is currently going through their version of the 1997-99 NHL 'toe in the crease' rule which basically spent two years ruining games by wiping out perfectly good and legitimate goals in the 'spirit of the game' sense on a rigid technicality.
They'll have to figure out something different because this is awful. Wenger's suggestion is probably the best.
As it is, Villa losing their goal feels like a bit of karma after the embarrassing diving exhibition from Grealish. Absolutely fantastic player but is making a joke of himself. If he was from Portugal or Brazil he'd be getting yellows on a weekly basis for simulation but English officials seem to turn a blind eye to an English player pulling this crap.
They'll have to figure out something different because this is awful. Wenger's suggestion is probably the best.
As it is, Villa losing their goal feels like a bit of karma after the embarrassing diving exhibition from Grealish. Absolutely fantastic player but is making a joke of himself. If he was from Portugal or Brazil he'd be getting yellows on a weekly basis for simulation but English officials seem to turn a blind eye to an English player pulling this crap.
spintheblackcircle
incoming!!!
- Mar 1, 2002
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spintheblackcircle
incoming!!!
- Mar 1, 2002
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- 12,207
If VAR is to be used, my opinion is that offside should only be judged off a player foot. I don't care where his arms are, he's not using his arms to score. I think if the players foot is closer to goal than the closest defender, it's offside.
Chimaera
same ol' Caps
couldn’t you put a chip on the tip of the boot if it went to foot?
I dunno, I know that’s asking for more stuff, but it seems like it could be possible. I’m sure some clubs would want it for analytical data anyhow,
I dunno, I know that’s asking for more stuff, but it seems like it could be possible. I’m sure some clubs would want it for analytical data anyhow,
hatterson
Registered User
The reason they go that far down the arm is that they’ve said hand ball starts only from the bottom of the patch on the shoulder which would roughly be the bottom of your shoulder muscle/deltoid. I think it’s really dumb, but at least they were consistent there. They measured the defender from about the same spot too.
My biggest issue with offsides like this are that it’s within the margin of error for the current technology. When was the ball actually played? Was it exactly on this frame or was it a half frame off either way? Which pixel really counts?
I’m not talking about the 10cm margin of error if the lines touch, I mean something wider or getting better tech (higher res/higher frame rate cameras)
Cool conversation. I would like to meet that human being Neville is talking about so ice cold he/she can take a decision with 80k in the stands shouting, millions watching on TV etc. re-watching a borderline decision. Obviously not many of those around - and most of them are probably psychopaths already in prison.
Offside I'm sure they can get right with some AI etc. - not that long into the future that should be very similar to goal line technology. The other stuff I think will take much longer. Based on current VAR I would leave that completely up to the ref on the pitch. If he/she wants to re-watch a situation he/she can, but no-one is then going to review it for him/her first. The "VAR ref" will then only provide the video without giving the ref on the pitch any input on the situation. Then refs would actually have to ref the game. Now they are to me just waiting more and more for VAR.
Offside I'm sure they can get right with some AI etc. - not that long into the future that should be very similar to goal line technology. The other stuff I think will take much longer. Based on current VAR I would leave that completely up to the ref on the pitch. If he/she wants to re-watch a situation he/she can, but no-one is then going to review it for him/her first. The "VAR ref" will then only provide the video without giving the ref on the pitch any input on the situation. Then refs would actually have to ref the game. Now they are to me just waiting more and more for VAR.
TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
The problem with the 'precise' implementation of the offside rule is that it's against the spirit of the rule. It makes sense to measure goals down to an inch because the fundamental goal of the game is to get the ball behind that line, so you either do or you don't. But the offside rule is just a regulation designed to prevent a certain exploitative type of play. But it's obvious that no advantage is gained when someone is offside by a hair or a toenail or whatever.
Up to the introduction of VAR the rule said that the decision would go in favor of the attacker if he and the last defender are level. Now what does 'level' really mean if you measure it down to all the parts of the body. In precise terms, two people are almost never going to be exactly level as people have different haircuts or a team's kit might be more loose fitting than the other team's and of course it all depends on body position as well. The forward is more likely to be sprinting with his upper body leaning forward while the defender is more likely to be stepping up and thus in an upright position. But does that matter as far as what is 'meaningful' offside? Not at all.
They either need to go with the 'margin of error' approach or simply make it an individual call following the classic statement on obscenity by a Supreme Court judge: I know it when I see it.
Up to the introduction of VAR the rule said that the decision would go in favor of the attacker if he and the last defender are level. Now what does 'level' really mean if you measure it down to all the parts of the body. In precise terms, two people are almost never going to be exactly level as people have different haircuts or a team's kit might be more loose fitting than the other team's and of course it all depends on body position as well. The forward is more likely to be sprinting with his upper body leaning forward while the defender is more likely to be stepping up and thus in an upright position. But does that matter as far as what is 'meaningful' offside? Not at all.
They either need to go with the 'margin of error' approach or simply make it an individual call following the classic statement on obscenity by a Supreme Court judge: I know it when I see it.
